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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26449514 - 01/24/20 07:59 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

But...but the charts stop at year 2000.

@Metoo do you think the Australian fires are related to climate change? What about the never-ending shitstorms that have been hitting Puerto Rico?


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Onlineqman
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114]
    #26449524 - 01/24/20 08:12 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
But...but the charts stop at year 2000.

@Metoo do you think the Australian fires are related to climate change? What about the never-ending shitstorms that have been hitting Puerto Rico?




It's impossible to know how much if any of a natural disaster is related to man made changes in the climate.

Even if it's 50% related, there's very little we can do about it today.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 3
    #26449554 - 01/24/20 08:37 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
Popper - thanks! When you are saying the test confirmation is not expected to be immediately available what you mean is that, in the meantime, it is a
  • scientific claim but of
  • undetermined merit until tested
is that right? I presume the proof positive of climate warming being bad for us would be the global economic and social growth indicators nosediving?




All scientific claims are theories. Proving a theory is impossible in science, and the term proof is only applicable to mathematics and logic. Which is why they still call it the theory of gravity, for instance.

What it comes down to is how much scientific evidence there is vs evidence that would falsify or modify that theory. There is scientific consensus that climate change is caused by human factors and that it's accelerating at an exponential rate. Every model shows that the increases in temperature currently will continue at ever increasing rates (the difference between linear and  exponential increase).

There is no theory within the scientific community that current climate change is caused by a natural (non manmade) warming trend. That argument is common among oil and coal company representatives and laymen including many internet posters. That is not to say that we may not be in a natural warming trend, but that the scientific community believes that temperature increases in the late 20th century and currently are occurring far too rapidly to be accounted for by natural causes.

"Global economic and social growth indicators" are outside the scope of science, other than social science. It would be expected that in some parts of the world temperature increase would be desirable, temporarily. It is also expected that global warming will make some parts of the world colder, temporarily. The warming of the oceans drastically effects the oceans' currents and some places that have been warmed by those currents are expected to become colder.

There is not a complete scientific consensus on the precise rate of climate change, but there is consensus that it's happening and that our future prospects are much more likely to be undesirable than desirable.


--------------------
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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: qman]
    #26449557 - 01/24/20 08:38 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
But...but the charts stop at year 2000.

@Metoo do you think the Australian fires are related to climate change? What about the never-ending shitstorms that have been hitting Puerto Rico?




It's impossible to know how much if any of a natural disaster is related to man made changes in the climate.

Even if it's 50% related, there's very little we can do about it today.




Just sayin’ we can at least acknowledge it.
It may be impossible to know if it’s the cause of fires and hurricanes, but we can safely say that both disasters would be less intense without today’s warmer climate. I picked those examples carefully.


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OnlineMetoo
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114] * 1
    #26449561 - 01/24/20 08:40 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
But...but the charts stop at year 2000.

@Metoo do you think the Australian fires are related to climate change? What about the never-ending shitstorms that have been hitting Puerto Rico?



They are the only ones going back a while I could find. Please post more recent stats if things have changed.

"Related" is not a very scientific term because in a complex system everything is interconnected to a degree. Attribution is more meaningful here but as far as I understand no single event is "caused" by climate change. For what it is worth the aggregated hurricane activity has actually been trending down:



But my angle is different. There have always been extreme climate events and they will not stop. Maybe we will have more draughts but less floods idk but is the overall global effect of all these changes going to be detrimental to humans? I think the popular assumption is that it will be but have they properly allowed for the positive effects?

One example. Food supply is absolutely critical to avoid global social disruption and we need arable land to grow stuff. In a warmer World we will lose some marginal arable land in the hot climates and gain some closer to the poles. Now, I would say that with the right technology we know how to irrigate deserts (Israel grows stuff in Negev) but we can't cultivate permafrost so the aggregated nett result of the climate zone shift on the food supply may be positive.


Edited by Metoo (01/24/20 08:53 AM)


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo] * 1
    #26449568 - 01/24/20 08:42 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Hurricanes are worse in warmer climates.
Forest fires are worse in warmer climates.

There are easily verifiable facts.


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OnlineMetoo
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114]
    #26449598 - 01/24/20 08:59 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Hurricanes are worse in warmer climates.
Forest fires are worse in warmer climates.

There are easily verifiable facts.



Here are your answers then!


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods] * 2
    #26449610 - 01/24/20 09:05 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said (in another thread) :
Is this thread going to get back on topic?  Or should I lock it?




Awesome derail people. :gc:

The topic of this thread is Trump 2020, not climate change.:shrug:

The yea/nays of climate change should be in it's own thread.

:waits: . . . :peace:


--------------------

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Onlinekoods
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: vinsue]
    #26449686 - 01/24/20 10:00 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Trump outright lied about the Iran attack

34 troops have traumatic brain injuries.

8 had to be airlifted to the United States


--------------------
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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114] * 3
    #26449687 - 01/24/20 10:01 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

feldman114 said:
Just sayin’ we can at least acknowledge it.
It may be impossible to know if it’s the cause of fires and hurricanes, but we can safely say that both disasters would be less intense without today’s warmer climate. I picked those examples carefully.




I'm sure Qman is happy to acknowledge the problem. The problem with that is, Qman will only acknowledge a problem exists, if he can also find a way to make it out of everyone's hands, so he doesn't feel obligated to do anything about it. That's why he says, 'racism is a form of tribalism, it's human nature, and there's nothing we can do about it', 'Even if climate change is man-made, this planet is too far gone, there's nothing we can do about it'.

If everyone took Qman's approach, we would have never made it to America, the moon, developed vaccines for fatal illnesses, etc. Shit, we wouldn't have made it out of Africa (Which is pretty funny, actually).


--------------------
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FARTS
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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: vinsue]
    #26449689 - 01/24/20 10:03 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Quote:

Enlil said (in another thread) :
Is this thread going to get back on topic?  Or should I lock it?




Awesome derail people. :gc:

The topic of this thread is Trump 2020, not climate change.:shrug:

The yea/nays of climate change should be in it's own thread.

:waits: . . . :peace:





The problem with that is, the topic is a woeful, shitty proposition, that nobody wants to talk about :wink:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"Real change never happens from the top down, but from the bottom up. The American Revolution, Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffage, etc' - Bernie Sanders
Every one of you should see this video.
"Not to be a dick but we grow felonies and are adults here. And that's the real answer!" - Trusted Cultivator


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Onlineqman
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26449723 - 01/24/20 10:30 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

feldman114 said:
Just sayin’ we can at least acknowledge it.
It may be impossible to know if it’s the cause of fires and hurricanes, but we can safely say that both disasters would be less intense without today’s warmer climate. I picked those examples carefully.




I'm sure Qman is happy to acknowledge the problem. The problem with that is, Qman will only acknowledge a problem exists, if he can also find a way to make it out of everyone's hands, so he doesn't feel obligated to do anything about it. That's why he says, 'racism is a form of tribalism, it's human nature, and there's nothing we can do about it', 'Even if climate change is man-made, this planet is too far gone, there's nothing we can do about it'.

If everyone took Qman's approach, we would have never made it to America, the moon, developed vaccines for fatal illnesses, etc. Shit, we wouldn't have made it out of Africa (Which is pretty funny, actually).




That's not my approach at all, either way I won't derail this thread.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: qman] * 1
    #26449732 - 01/24/20 10:34 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
That's not my approach at all, either way I won't derail this thread.




Really? That's wonderful to hear!

So, what should we do about all this racist tribalism, and man-made climate change?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"Real change never happens from the top down, but from the bottom up. The American Revolution, Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffage, etc' - Bernie Sanders
Every one of you should see this video.
"Not to be a dick but we grow felonies and are adults here. And that's the real answer!" - Trusted Cultivator


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #26449892 - 01/24/20 12:19 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

qman said:
That's not my approach at all, either way I won't derail this thread.




Really? That's wonderful to hear!

So, what should we do about all this racist tribalism, and man-made climate change?



We could segregate the tribes, and develope better tech to help us weather the oncoming onslaught of man made climate disasters! :smile:
(Thats sarcasm)


--------------------


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Onlinekoods
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26449935 - 01/24/20 12:36 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
Both the average global GDP and average global life expectancy are looking impressive by historic standards









We are at a multi centuries low in world wide economic growth. Certainly the lowest growth rate since the beginning of the Industrial Age


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


Edited by koods (01/24/20 12:38 PM)


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OnlineMetoo
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods] * 1
    #26449960 - 01/24/20 12:50 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
We are at a multi centuries low in world wide economic growth. Certainly the lowest growth rate since the beginning of the Industrial Age



Please provide evidence to support your claim regarding the multi-centuries trend - your graph only goes back to 1961


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: vinsue] * 1
    #26449998 - 01/24/20 01:08 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Quote:

Enlil said (in another thread) :
Is this thread going to get back on topic?  Or should I lock it?




Awesome derail people. :gc:

The topic of this thread is Trump 2020, not climate change.:shrug:

The yea/nays of climate change should be in it's own thread.

:waits: . . . :peace:




True, Trump deserves his own shitty re-election thread... even though he has shitty climate policy :super: whoot whoot!


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Onlinekoods
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Metoo]
    #26450006 - 01/24/20 01:13 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Metoo said:
Quote:

koods said:
We are at a multi centuries low in world wide economic growth. Certainly the lowest growth rate since the beginning of the Industrial Age



Please provide evidence to support your claim regarding the multi-centuries trend - your graph only goes back to 1961



No. You already did. You don’t believe the graphs you posted yourself?


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


Edited by koods (01/24/20 01:19 PM)


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Offlinefeldman114
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #26450093 - 01/24/20 02:00 PM (5 months, 8 days ago)

@Metoo

Even Simon Kuznets, the Nobel Prize-winning economist who helped develop the idea of GDP, said it should not be used as a measure for "the welfare of a nation."

It’s all about growth, baby.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feldman114]
    #26450106 - 01/24/20 02:06 PM (5 months, 8 days ago)

It should be noted this graph needs to use a logarithmic scale to accurately represent GDP growth (for example: 2000 to 4000 represents 100% growth, while 4000 to 6000 only represents 50% growth)



--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


Edited by koods (01/24/20 02:08 PM)


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