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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28332300 -

Trump sees that the US supporting Ukraine is bad for his business opportunities in Mother Russia. It's that simple. He doesn't have the brain capacity to think beyond his personal situation.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28332319 -

I don’t think there is a serious anti-Ukraine message coming from the GOP.

They’re hitting the democrat president for escalating a proxy war because it’s politically expedient. If Trump manages to win in November he’ll continue doing the exact same thing. This would mean the GOP are hypocrites (astonishing, I know).


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28332358 -

That's why messaging has focused on the price tag, and not the proxy war. I see very few GOPers talking about how we need to stop the proxy war in Ukraine, but I see many talking about how we cannot afford to continue helping Ukraine. That way, Trump will simply stop military aid (like he did before) and likely try to extort Zelensky into political favors.

That way, the GOP sinks Ukraine through inaction.

The reason this will certainly happen is, again, Ukraine being a pretty clear repudiation of the GOP worldview. In the GOP, might makes right, and being the strongest strongman makes you the best. There's a reason they admire Putin and want to copy Orban. The fact that a democratically elected leader can stand up to Putin and win is just too disrespectful for the GOP to stomach.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #28332359 -

Let's be honest, Trump would try to send even more aid, and a lot of republicans would suddenly be cheering him on.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: christopera]
    #28332393 -

It's too much of an ideological surrender. Democracy and liberalism have run their course and are starting to get a little bit out of hand. People are starting to think choices are something they get to have outside of choosing their brand of toilet paper.

Plus, a win for Ukraine is a win for the EU.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: christopera]
    #28332558 -

christopera said:
Let's be honest, Trump would try to send even more aid, and a lot of republicans would suddenly be cheering him on.


Well now that China has entered the Ukraine discourse it’s an easy transition to “well we didn’t wanna get involved but now China wants to take over Europe and exploit Biden’s weakness.”


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28332593 -

Trump last time: literally cuts military aid to Ukraine in the face of Russian aggression as part of an extortion scheme

Ecstatic: "BuT tHiS tImE wIlL bE dIfFeReNt"

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28332705 -

This time is different. We’re far too involved in this now to just stop supplying aid. Last time a president tried to abruptly abandon a military campaign he was shot in the head.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28332726 -

Oh? Do we have boots on the ground and decades of infrastructure built up? Because I remember how that went. Remember how trump gave Russia a fully equipped military base in Syria because we pulled out so suddenly they didn't even have time to set the demolition charges? Or the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan?

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28332851 -

Not to mention all the Trump ties to China (actual ones, not made up ones like what he accuses Biden of).

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Randar] * 1
    #28332884 -

I just find it shocking that the child of a president would do business in China



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #28332924 -

Someone needs to make doing business with China less advantageous and Trump knows the art inside and out. He's just the man for the job MAGA



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Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28332999 -

Kryptos said:
Oh? Do we have boots on the ground and decades of infrastructure built up? Because I remember how that went. Remember how trump gave Russia a fully equipped military base in Syria because we pulled out so suddenly they didn't even have time to set the demolition charges? Or the plan to withdraw from Afghanistan?


Syria is a completely different situation than Ukraine, and we’d been slowly backing away from Afghanistan for a decade.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28333015 -

It was a completely different situation, yes. We had a full US military base stocked with US personnel that was evacuated because Putin asked it to be evacuated, and it happened in less than 48 hours. In Ukraine, we don't have any of that, we just ship them stuff.

That makes the situation much closer to when we were shipping stuff to Ukraine due to Russian aggression, and then suddenly the shipments just...stopped because Trump needed a favor and Putin did too.

We spent a decade slowly backing out of Afghanistan, followed by a mad dash scramble out the door leaving a bunch of equipment behind because trump didn't give two shits about what the results would be, he just needed a headline so that FW and the rest of the MAGA crew could call him anti-war. (also I'm sure the Saudis needed someone to slow down their oil competition, and Putin did too)

If you think that Trump will act any differently this time around, you are a moron.

Also, if you think the GOP is gonna stand up to trump and overrule him cutting aid to Ukraine, you are also a moron. Their official party platform is "we do what trump says".

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28333092 -

Kryptos said:
...if you think the GOP is gonna stand up to trump and overrule him cutting aid to Ukraine, you are also a moron. Their official party platform is "we do what trump says".


In that case, go Trump!  :shrug:

There are better things to spend our money on.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: koods]
    #28333109 -

koods said:
I just find it shocking that the child of a president would do business in China




Shit she's got investment in voting machines in China. But we're supposed to think that smartmatic is so Uber sketchy.


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Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28333898 -

Kryptos said:
It was a completely different situation, yes. We had a full US military base stocked with US personnel that was evacuated because Putin asked it to be evacuated, and it happened in less than 48 hours. In Ukraine, we don't have any of that, we just ship them stuff.

That makes the situation much closer to when we were shipping stuff to Ukraine due to Russian aggression, and then suddenly the shipments just...stopped because Trump needed a favor and Putin did too.

We spent a decade slowly backing out of Afghanistan, followed by a mad dash scramble out the door leaving a bunch of equipment behind because trump didn't give two shits about what the results would be, he just needed a headline so that FW and the rest of the MAGA crew could call him anti-war. (also I'm sure the Saudis needed someone to slow down their oil competition, and Putin did too)

If you think that Trump will act any differently this time around, you are a moron.

Also, if you think the GOP is gonna stand up to trump and overrule him cutting aid to Ukraine, you are also a moron. Their official party platform is "we do what trump says".


Trump acts in a capricious self-serving manner until he stumbles into a situation important enough that he’s told to back off. It happened countless times.

And Afghanistan was always gonna happen the way it happened. “See what happens when we stop an occupation? WOMEN get hurt and the TERRORISTS win.”


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28333914 -

There was a report that came out the other day that basically said Trump's approach to Afghanistan cratered Afghan morale.

Just because something was gonna be bad either way, doesn't mean Trump wouldn't have made it worse. See: swine flu vs covid.

The only people that Trump would listen to when they tell him to back off are Trucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Putin, and Bin Salman or whatever the crown prince of SA's name is. All people who believe that Russia is right to conquer Ukraine.

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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kryptos]
    #28333952 -

I’m not gonna pretend to know the ins and outs of internal Afghan politics but it’s pretty obvious their morale was cratered well before 2021. Naturally, the MIC wanted to keep occupying, that’s why every media outlet in the country shit on Biden when we eventually did pull out the troops.

And I think Covid is a good example. Trump made it worse, but not so much worse that it was unacceptably bad to the ruling class. Trump did lockdowns, stimulus checks, etc. He just turned mask mandates into a culture war issue, which ultimately served the ruling class just fine. “Reopen businesses (and schools) so my workers get back to making me money.”

When it comes to Russia and Ukraine, I’ll reiterate my point: none of these people actually want to help Russia, they just want to demonize Biden’s foreign policy. To the extent that they do want to antagonize Russia with a softer hand, it’s only because they think we should be more focused on antagonizing China. After all Russians are white people! It’s not about being pro-Russia so much as it is a more efficient deployment of imperial resources.


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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #28334410 -

Multiple Mar-a-lago employees report they were ordered to move boxes (hide) containing classified materials the day before the FBI executed their raid to find them.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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