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Carl Jung understood archetypes as universal, archaic patterns and images that derive from the collective unconscious and are the psychic counterpart of instinct.[1] They are inherited potentials which are actualized when they enter consciousness as images or manifest in behavior on interaction with the outside world.[2] They are autonomous and hidden forms which are transformed once they enter consciousness and are given particular expression by individuals and their cultures. In Jungian psychology, archetypes are highly developed elements of the collective unconscious. The existence of archetypes can only be deduced indirectly by using story, art, myths, religions, or dreams.

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For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, read some Jung because he's a friggin genius.

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it could make them lose clients ..

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critics would point out that he only generalized Freud's lead to other myths...

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Eclipse3130 said:

The psychotic drowns in the same waters the mystic swims. Psychs always throw me into psychosis, it's not until after integration that I bring it full circle. Though now a days I don't trip much anymore, I'm glad to have in the past, small doses seem to push me much further

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Nice quote. I feel psychedelics are similar to external induced psychosis. Maybe you learn similar things when its internal induced psychosis without the external mushrooms causing it..?

Same type of place im in ATM.

Seems I did enough tripping in a short enough span to make room for long breaks of integration I never took before.

I have this theory that once you start pushing too far past your current (now past) state of conciousness, you simply need time to readjust. Guess that's called reintegration I think that "stretch" and rest is different for everyone. Maybe a certain distance or "growth" we can travel or "accomplish" before rest is needed for readjustment. Maybe a limit for each life even.

Maybe not

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"Yes, I've read this book recently, and I've never understood how it's not more popular in the psychedelic community, because the parallels are obvious. Some psychedelic pundits (including Leary back in the day) will mention Jung here and there, but it's beyond me that no-one wrote a full book on the parallels earlier than this one, and that it seems to go largely unnoticed."

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This quote + the fact that you've read this book + your username being aldous (huxley I'm assuming) makes you my new best friend.

It really is crazy how few people in the psychedelic community seem to know about this stuff, thats why I decided to leave this in my sig permanently. I never know quite how to explain this stuff to noobies though but hopefully it'll do some good. Maybe some sort of simple guide to the practices/parallels in the future

Very interesting story about making sense of your possession. I had not heard of such a thing being traced back to the shadow before. Nice work

Guess I'll have to get this book then! So glad I posted this.

Psilosopherr said:

This quote + the fact that you've read this book + your username being aldous (huxley I'm assuming) makes you my new best friend.

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Haha, you're welcome

Jung can be quite esoteric at times, also because some of his 'books' are actually loose collections of lectures and conferences. I think his autobiography (which he actually hardly wrote himself) is a very good entry point and gives an accessible overview of his ideas and work. From there you can proceed to other stuff that draws your attention and interest.

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“dreamlike nature of reality.”

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Psilosopherr said:

Ever since I first learned about Jung's ideas I've been fascinated by the idea of applying them to the psychedelic experience. Doing things like interpreting hallucinations as if they were dream symbols and trying to learn from that, speaking with/interviewing entities the same way you would dream characters (elderly mother hallucination example: "why do you appear as my mother?" "why do you look so much older than normal?" "what can I learn from you?"), trying to assimilate your shadow or interact with your anima, etc.

Finally somebody pointed me to this book today on this very subject (by scott hill) so I thought I'd ask if anybody had heard of any similar books, or if any of you have read this one. This one appears to have good reviews but doesn't seem very popular.

Also curious if any of you have applied Jungian concepts/practices to your trips and what have your results been like? Its been years since I've truly tripped hard but I'll be giving it a shot soon, can't wait. I think knowledge of symbolism and dreaming productively will be a huge benefit to me navigating the psychedelic experience.

For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, read some Jung because he's a friggin genius.

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This,  Yes.  This.  Glad someone finally mentioned it here.  This is essentially a universal map for dreams, lucid dreams, psychedelic trips, and life. 

I always have his schema in mind, and it applies doubly to my dreams and to deep psychedelic experiences.

His work (and the older traditions from which he compiled and  distilled knowledge and wisdom out of to create his more universal version ), plus Joseph Campbell’s work (who was heavily Jung influenced ), and some others are essentially how I manage to use psychedelics in a way that isn’t just making me delusion , as what happens with so many who use psychs.

Read it, read more, and once you get a hang of the concepts and principles etc, try it for yourself. I personally use his work and theory combined with http://promienie.net/images/dharma/books/longchenpa_maya-yoga.pdf the precepts in the book I linked you in combination to have a framework for both context and content when I want to use a trip for something specific.

Highly recommended.

And report back

InnerWisdom said:

I'm glad I found this thread. That book you mention in your post seems intriguing for future reading as I have read some Jung and always return to his ideas at some point. Last time I was listening to his work being read on youtube as well as some discussions on them. Was the book good?

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I'm glad you posted this because I got about halfway through the book and then forgot about it and started re-reading 'man and his symbols.' Based on the first half though, I do recommend confrontation with the unconscious absolutely

The Blind Ass said:

Psilosopherr said:

Ever since I first learned about Jung's ideas I've been fascinated by the idea of applying them to the psychedelic experience. Doing things like interpreting hallucinations as if they were dream symbols and trying to learn from that, speaking with/interviewing entities the same way you would dream characters (elderly mother hallucination example: "why do you appear as my mother?" "why do you look so much older than normal?" "what can I learn from you?"), trying to assimilate your shadow or interact with your anima, etc.

Finally somebody pointed me to this book today on this very subject (by scott hill) so I thought I'd ask if anybody had heard of any similar books, or if any of you have read this one. This one appears to have good reviews but doesn't seem very popular.

Also curious if any of you have applied Jungian concepts/practices to your trips and what have your results been like? Its been years since I've truly tripped hard but I'll be giving it a shot soon, can't wait. I think knowledge of symbolism and dreaming productively will be a huge benefit to me navigating the psychedelic experience.

For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, read some Jung because he's a friggin genius.

---

This,  Yes.  This.  Glad someone finally mentioned it here.  This is essentially a universal map for dreams, lucid dreams, psychedelic trips, and life. 

I always have his schema in mind, and it applies doubly to my dreams and to deep psychedelic experiences.

His work (and the older traditions from which he compiled and  distilled knowledge and wisdom out of to create his more universal version ), plus Joseph Campbell’s work (who was heavily Jung influenced ), and some others are essentially how I manage to use psychedelics in a way that isn’t just making me delusion , as what happens with so many who use psychs.

Read it, read more, and once you get a hang of the concepts and principles etc, try it for yourself. I personally use his work and theory combined with http://promienie.net/images/dharma/books/longchenpa_maya-yoga.pdf the precepts in the book I linked you in combination to have a framework for both context and content when I want to use a trip for something specific.

Highly recommended.

And report back

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wooops forgot to reply, thanks for the recommendations. hadn't heard of joseph cambell either. Jungs distillations of old traditions (nice phrasing) always sounded interesting, particularly those about alchemy, but I haven't gotten around to reading them.

I'm a bit too intoxicated to have the patience for reading the yoga thing at the moment. Perhaps you'd care to give me an explanation of this maya yoga, like is it stretching and breathwork? You're talking about specifically using it during a psychedelic experience too or did I misread that?

Admittedly I've never had the patience for meditation/yoga or been able to get much out of it. I do it every once in a while though, like if I'm really feeling overwhelmed or emotional. Hmm, yeah it has helped me a lot in times of need now that i think about it.

But idk, whats special about maya yoga? Sorry for being too lazy to read

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Psilosopherr said:.

I'm a bit too intoxicated to have the patience for reading the yoga thing at the moment. Perhaps you'd care to give me an explanation of this maya yoga, like is it stretching and breathwork? You're talking about specifically using it during a psychedelic experience too or did I misread that?

Admittedly I've never had the patience for meditation/yoga or been able to get much out of it. I do it every once in a while though, like if I'm really feeling overwhelmed or emotional. Hmm, yeah it has helped me a lot in times of need now that i think about it.

But idk, whats special about maya yoga? Sorry for being too lazy to read

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Maya Yoga has nothing to do with stretching or what’s known as yoga to most in the west.  It’s meaning Maya = illusion, or magical illusion (like what we see in dreams and while tripping on higher doses of fungi) and Yoga = to yoke, to be one with.  No typical western yoga involved, it’s a book that illustrates and demonstrates some of the most esoteric and grand precepts or higher teachings of the Buddha upon 8 similes of illusion.    Basically nothing to do with stretches, maybe a sitting posture or visualization or two at most.  Mostly to do with recognizing the true nature of phenomena as mind as being akin to illusory evanescence while naturally relaxing,


anyways... Here are the classsical illusions that he uses to expound the higher teachings of the buddha Ie. Recognizing all things are marked by this quality of mind, all phenomena - just some states make the minds nature more obvious than others.. these classical examples help denote the quality of the phenomena that we can instantly recognize in our overall experience in a way that makes reality both immanently transcendent at once - and not just one or the other at different times,



Dream: like a dream, objects perceived with the five senses are not there, but they appear through delusion
Magical illusion: like a magic illusion, things are made to appear due to the temporary coming together of causes and conditions
Hallucination or trompe-l'oeil: like a hallucination, things appear, yet there is nothing there
Mirage: like a mirage, things appear, but they are not real
Echo: like an echo, things can be perceived, but there is nothing there, either inside or outside
City of gandharvas: like a city of gandharvas, there is neither a dwelling nor anyone to dwell
Reflection: like a reflection, things appear, but have no reality of their own
Apparition: like an apparition, there are different types of appearances, but they are not really there


It goes into it in the book, and illuminates precepts for recognizing our natural primordially non dual nature of mind, which combined with something like Jungs works and Joseph Campbell’s and others, allows for one to actually utilize a psychedelic experience so as to experience a foretaste into the minds true nature - as well as how to lucidly play around with powers called Siddhis (magic powers while lucid dreaming or lucid tripping once certain things are understood appropriately )/ while dreaming or using hallucinogens to express personal realization and actualization Through creative and fulfillment stages.  Literally allowing one to playiwith matter/Illusion like a God with just mind and no limits but ones own failure of imagination.

It’s completely life changing after doing it for realsies just once whiLe dreaming at night asleep but fully lucid and applying the precepts (which are actually no-precepts or non-doings of things we have been conditioned to do that make us miss so much of what we can truly do in those states) or whole tripping on high doses of psychs.  Once you do it for yourself and see the proof and evidence of it via ones own experience you’ll never be the same.



Dream: like a dream, objects perceived with the five senses are not there, but they appear through delusion
Magical illusion: like a magic illusion, things are made to appear due to the temporary coming together of causes and conditions
Hallucination or trompe-l'oeil: like a hallucination, things appear, yet there is nothing there
Mirage: like a mirage, things appear, but they are not real
Echo: like an echo, things can be perceived, but there is nothing there, either inside or outside
City of gandharvas: like a city of gandharvas, there is neither a dwelling nor anyone to dwell
Reflection: like a reflection, things appear, but have no reality of their own
Apparition: like an apparition, there are different types of appearances, but they are not really there.


Essentially allowing one to fulfill wishes in an unreal real that can have real benefits in the ordinary mundane waking world. Via instantaneous transmission and recognition of ones mind’s true ineffable mysterious and magical like nature, and in doing so being released from a conceptual cage into the always present mystical reality that is our everyday moment to moment reality.

Highly recommend it, and the book as a guide, but you may have to study some more basic Buddhism and terminology to fully grock and utilize it.  Subtle, simple. Yet paradoxically difficult and complex.  But if your one of the lucky few who inherently always realized ones own true nature than it comes naturally , especially have having Drimey wozer elucidate the precepts to doing it so eloquently.

Different folks diff. Strokes.