teladi said:

It is definitely accepted in food science. Sterilization is a game of probabilities, only in food sciences you have the added constraint of maintaining taste.  This is why every relevant government agency suggests you limit how long you store canned goods for (e.g. https://www.cdc.gov/botulism/consumer.html), because no can is truly completely sterile.

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Quote:

And also in microbiology, you program your autoclave cycle against the most common expected contaminants. Every now and then sterilization fails 'cause you have something weird creep in, and you have to throw out your entire experiment, or you sequence something completely different.

For every time period, at temperature you experience a log reduction in the number of CFUs in the thing you are sterilizing.  Basic math tells you that you are unlikely to ever reach zero with a typical CFU load, but rather you take it down to an acceptable level without overly deteriorating the substrate.

It's also why you'll never ever find any sterilization method - beit filters or whatever - promising 100% sterilization rate. It's just not doable.

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Mad Season said:

Lol no I don't agree with that. If you had proof that said otherwise I would, but alas you've got 1 bag from february which apparently still smells fine. Big woop.

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Pinback said:

What experiment (and outcome) would change your mind?

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Idk who you were asking specifically but I'll chime in with my 2 cents..


After reading up some more on Bacillus propagation I can confirm that a liquid media is necessary indeed.
And needs to be incubated at 30-37C.


So.. Hydrated grain is NOT a liquid media and it is not kept anywhere near 37C.
So how is Bacillus propagation even supposed to occur in such test jars/environment?



As I mentioned before it seems that my idea for test jars is what makes most sense to use in an experiment.
For example test jars can contain 500ml grain water + 300ml hydrated grain each.
And final test can be for example to use the Biopsy Method to inoculate
the test jars with a clean culture and wait for it to colonize the broth fully.


Does this make sense?

bodhisatta said:

Additional water in a grain jar would make it far easier to sterilize. Especially if grain is submerged

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GOOOOSHHHH!!!! I'll get back to this point later I've already thought about it..


But anyway.


So what are 'dirty grains' now again? To my understanding it is grains that contain a much higher endospore count.
These endospores>live bacteria require a liquid media to propagate in.
But hydrated grain is solid and NOT liquid, so how are these organisms supposed to propagate on grain and outcompete our live cultures?

bodhisatta said:

Additional water in a grain jar would make it far easier to sterilize. Especially if grain is submerged

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Mateah said:

bodhisatta said:

Additional water in a grain jar would make it far easier to sterilize. Especially if grain is submerged

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GOOOOSHHHH!!!! I'll get back to this point later I've already thought about it..


But anyway.


So what are 'dirty grains' now again? To my understanding it is grains that contain a much higher endospore count.
These endospores>live bacteria require a liquid media to propagate in.
But hydrated grain is solid and NOT liquid, so how are these organisms supposed to propagate on grain and outcompete our live cultures?

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The same way they do on agar

Mateah said:

bodhisatta said:

Additional water in a grain jar would make it far easier to sterilize. Especially if grain is submerged

---

GOOOOSHHHH!!!! I'll get back to this point later I've already thought about it..


But anyway.


So what are 'dirty grains' now again? To my understanding it is grains that contain a much higher endospore count.
These endospores>live bacteria require a liquid media to propagate in.
But hydrated grain is solid and NOT liquid, so how are these organisms supposed to propagate on grain and outcompete our live cultures?

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cronicr said:

For a whole week i wouldnt even use the fridge

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