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Anonymous

Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern?
    #2581317 - 04/20/04 03:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: ]
    #2581958 - 04/20/04 11:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: ]
    #2582091 - 04/20/04 12:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

wow man this is an amazing post
one of the best that ive read in a long time
ive had some very similar thoughts
about how people who believe that god plans everything and how they can also believe in gods eternal torment (hell)
how can a god make someone a murderer and then punish him for it?
but yeah
THANKS MAN


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Anonymous

Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2582242 - 04/20/04 12:52 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

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Anonymous

Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: ]
    #2674240 - 05/13/04 05:22 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: ]
    #2674265 - 05/13/04 05:27 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

woot! i just posted about this too!  woot woot.  i defintely agree with you.

edit: i know i'm not supposed to cross post, but maybe poeple won't read my other post since it wasn't really on topic

Isn't how we deal with others' struggles much more of an indicator of our spiritual nature rather than how loudly we boast of our achievements?
agreed.  however, since i'm not up to date on western philosophy, did they ever show that profound negativy for most other people is not a valid spiritual practice?
if we are capable of influencing others by our actions it assumes we must take responsibility not only for our actions, but for how others percieve our actions,  and this is no fun game.
idea:  feel not bad about spreading negativity, and accept no negativity from others, nor hold it against them.  (of course this assumes you're aware of what you're doing and why you're doing it).  the more stress and fear we put into the system the sooner those who are instable/have no self center will fall. and since those are the people that are essientially draining those with REAL, UNSHAKEABLE understanding of self and universe, i think the universe would be a much better place.
if you want to love someone go love hitler.  (and to pre-empt poeple's responses, i think its just as likely that if more poeple showed hitler love in his life, instead of not wanting to kill poeple, he would have been really happy killing poeple, as maybe he was? what he needed was more upstanding poeple to keep feeding him bitter medicine until he swalled it.)
edit:  because i just posted two posts in a row about profound negativity i thought i'd use this small out of the way space to expand a little bit.
basically somehow in my life i've become very aware of the fact that when bad things happen to poeple, they assume its because of an external reason, they don't realise "something bad happened to me because i am a bad person".  however, many poeple are very quick to jump on "when something good happens to me its because i'm a GOOD PERSON".  poeple don't realise they are both, instead they use false optimism and false positivy to ignore and repress thier faults or conversely deciding "hey thats just me, take me as i am", as though such things were not obvious and ulitmately harmful. 
anyhow, just so you know i'm not a hypcrocrite, i of course go through the bitching and moaning phase whenever something bad happens to me, but ultimately i almost ALWAYS use bad stuff happening to me as a way to gain more knowledge, and i really do let go of the bad stuff that happens to me because i learned from my experiance.  and just for the sake of balance i'll throw in i'm now working on learning from good stuff happening to me, and then ultimately i'll work on learning from no-thing happening to me.

edit edit edit: generally speaking only good things happen to me (except when things go really wrong) so i must be doing something right  :smile:


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


Edited by truekimbo2 (05/13/04 05:29 PM)


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: ]
    #2674289 - 05/13/04 05:31 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

what can we learn from the lady who bashed her 3 children's heads in with a rock because "god told her to".?


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: Clean]
    #2674331 - 05/13/04 05:35 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

maybe we can't learn anything, but i'm sure she's going too... 


or maybe we could learn that you can't just ignore crazy poeple in the assumption that they'll go away.

i don't know, i wasn't involved so i'm kind of grasping at straws :frown:


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: truekimbo2]
    #2674390 - 05/13/04 05:44 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

it's such an extreme case... i thought it was interesting to ponder it in light of the original post.
i just read up on i the case again... the woman pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity, and only two of her children were killed. one survived but has impaired vision and will never be self sufficient. prosecuters are not seeking the death penalty and it's entirely possible that she'll spend 40 years in a maximum security hospital.


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Anonymous

Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: Clean]
    #2674446 - 05/13/04 05:53 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

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InvisibleJenny
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Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: ]
    #2674488 - 05/13/04 06:01 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

i forget where i read this, but it explained karma in this way:

if a person is murdered then their soul goes to the "waiting place" if they still want to return to earth. They wait until the person who murdered them lives out their life on earth and when the murderer dies, both people are reborn. The murderer is in karmic dept to the victim, so if the victim gets sick in the next life, its instead "tranferred" to the murderer who owes the person.
Interesting anyways..

I'm a strong believer in karma but i look on it more as in many lifetimes than as in just one life time. If there is a kind, but unlucky man, its possible their soul in the past has some karmic depts to pay to more than a few other souls.


--------------------

Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.


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Anonymous

Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: Jenny]
    #2675494 - 05/13/04 09:48 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Karmic Facilitators...All part of The Pattern? [Re: ]
    #2675837 - 05/13/04 10:54 PM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Well written post! The notion of evil and of predestination or determinism is not a simple question, obviously, and not one that can be solved rationally. The answer to these inquiries seem to depend upon intuition, insight, even mystical intuition. I have been reading quite a bit on the Kabbala lately, and the notion of evil is one that has been analyzed by some of the greatest minds. Firstly, St. Augustine's doctrine of Original Sin is noticeably absent, since it is a late contrivance, not Biblical or Scriptural (assuming some level of authority can be recognized in Scripture).

The notion of evil first has to be defined in some workable way - not harkening back to a hereditary process from mythological primal parents (Adam & Eve). Like the character of Judas in the Christian Passion Play, someone had to play the part of the betrayer so that
Jesus was identified from among all the other bearded long-haired Jews. No visible halo gave Him away. So, is evil necessary? Well, the Kabbalists in the main, point out that the creation is caused by the Divine Essence 'voiding' Itself for the space of a singularity, and the material reality that ensued, with limitation, impermanence, death and dissolution, not to mention unbridled desire for more existence, in a vampyric way, all relate to evil. Evil is the 'necessary' correlate of limitation. Evil is the 'shadow' cast by the Light upon materiality. The Creator is perfect, the creation is imperfect by nature, and imperfection is by degree down to the grossest, most perverse cruelty of sentient beings. Participation in GOD is also by degree up to the epitomy of human development in Jesus of Nazareth (for those who hold Him in such esteem).

Yes, "As ye sow, so shall ye reap," is about karma, and even Hindus say 'All is karma, all is grace,' which comes from a recording that Ram Dass made in the 70's, but which is also a song about this paradox. A Yogi was asked 'why is there evil?', and his response was "To thicken the plot." [!] History is, after all, 'His-story.' The Kabbalists, drawing from Neoplatonism's insistance that GOD is transcendent above even consciousness, actually needs humanity and its dramas in order to 'Know' Him-Herself.

I seek to understand evil, yet I also endeavor with all my heart - inasmuch as it is given to me - to manifest Compassion. Beings of 'Din,' - Judgement - will return to the fires of Hell that spawned them. They carry this wrath while yet on Earth - the molestors and murderers of children and the like. The dualities descended from the ONE interact in this relative cosmos - Hell Spawn and Children of GOD. How much free will there may be to decide which to be, and how much predestination (Calvinistic theology, Hindu determinism) can only be determined on an individual basis by those with GOD-given insight.

BTW, Adam Walsh was snatched from Hollywood fashion Mall - just a few miles from my house - since you mention this example of evil. Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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