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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #25845035 -

I deeply value the teachings and path of Jesus Christ. I'm also initiated into a religion which uses Ayahuasca, and we sing hymns that speak of Christ all night every single weekend. Maria Sabina worked with jesus and the Virgin Mary in her mushroom veladas. Many occult christians utilize psychedelics. some even believe Christ consciousness can be found in certain plants.we believe the leaf is the divine mother (Mary) and that the vine is where Christ consciousness is stored. (this is just symbolic of course) together we drink those plants and heal ourselves.. There is much debate among those who believe in a God, but many agree that God is omnipotent, to me that means she is in everything, including every dose of psychedelic on earth, leaf, drop of water, child, murderer, and saint. Is God OK with tripping? God IS tripping. we are just that

Edited by LiquidLight (03/01/19 03:58 AM)

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: LiquidLight]
    #25845294 -

We were just talking about Maria Sabina the other day :smile:

Frank Herbert was interested in her and the Reverend Mothers from Dune are partly based off her, at least her inspiration.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25845892 -

BrendanFlock said:
I don't think it comes down to.. did these people perform miracles or not.. but which miracles DID happen, and which ones did not!

Which miracles do you believe happened Markos?


I do not think that the various stories in the Tenach (OT) or the various vignettes in the New Testament were historical events at all. If you read D.M. Murdock's book Christ in Egypt she documents the Egyptian sources of many of the NT stories as being direct appropriation of the earlier Egyptian Coffin and Pyramid Texts. Virgin birth is typical of both Near East and Far East birth narratives of avatars/saviors. The prophesy about the Messiah that Matthew quoted from Isaiah 7:14 says in the original Hebrew that a "young woman" will conceive a child, NOT a virgin. Unfortunately, the author who wrote the gospel used the then-common Greek Septuagint. Greek had one word for both young woman and virgin, parthenos. The Hebrew original reads "almah," young woman/maiden, NOT 'betholah,' virgin. The translation is a mistranslation!

The notion of a virgin woman bearing a child by a god or God is pure Hellenistic mythic language. Dionysus was a demigod born of Semele who was impregnated by God (Zeus), Heracles (Hercules) was a demigod born of Alcmene, again impregnated by Zeus. By Hellenistic idiom, Iesous is also a demigod. BTW, these women in the classic Greek myths were raped by Zeus, not seduced, cajoled, or romanced (except perhaps Leda who was impregnated by Zeus in the form of a swan. Their son Pollux was said to be immortal). What do you call an impregnation by Zeus in the form of a 'golden shower' that produced the demigod hero Perseus? Y'shua ben Miriam was conceived by the Holy Spirit which is sometimes depicted as a dove whispering into the ear of Miriam/Mary (because the Holy Spirit is also the Logos or "Word" of God). Sheesh!

I'd have to write a dissertation on the theophanies of the Tenach, but I am not an expert on theophanies.  "Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Genesis 5:21–24). One term used here is 'translated,' as in "beam me up Scotty," metaphysically taken into Heaven/God. The 'burning bush' has been elaborated as a Seraph, a being of Holy Fire, the highest (or closest to God) in a hierarchy of celestial beings. What of the staff of Moses turning into a serpent that eats the serpent-staffs of Pharaoh's magicians, or the pillars of smoke and fire, or the plagues of Egypt, or Ezekiel's vision, the standing still of the sun in the sky, and on and on?

In the NT, the walking on the water event is not unique. I have a book on the Hindu and Buddhist miracles of walking on water (I looked but can't find it for reference). Multiplication of the loaves and fish may have some parallel in yogis producing something out of apparently nothing but I do not have a reference. Healing is ubiquitous among avatars, opening the eyes of the congenitally blind is a powerful metaphor if nothing else for awakening, for seeing the light, etc. Synchronicities, whatever their non-causal manifestation can be applied to Paul's jail door being left unlocked, or shaken open by an earth tremor, or being bitten by an ostensibly old venomous snake with little or no venom. But again, I am not interested in rationalistic, materialistic interpretations of events that are more likely midrash, metaphor, and myth than materially/historically/journalistically accurate events. Scriptures in every religion use mythic, metaphoric, (and in Jewish sources, midrashic) language. To conflate mythology with historicity is an unforgivable error in a post-modern scientific world. As for myself, the miraculous has occurred through poignant and powerful synchronistic moments that I seemed to receive both as "instant karma" as well as an answer to petitionary prayer, and I have experienced clear telepathy on 7 occasions, so I am not dismissing 'miracles,' I am re-interpreting religious writing.

"...Jesus said, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who believe without seeing." - John 20:29


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: MushroomBush] * 1
    #25846747 -

I'm a believer as well. I was told by angels not to use mushrooms for recreation, that they put you into the spiritual plane. And the war is still ongoing, if you know what I mean. Evil spirits are there too and they pass themselves off as all manner of beings to delude you. Keep in mind that the angel (the captain of a group of six) did not tell me to not use mushrooms. He just cautioned to use them with purpose, and knowing what I was getting myself into. I know another believer who has taken mushrooms and he was told that he had no right to be there. It probably is the case that some shouldn't use mushrooms. It's distinctly individual and "where you are at" kind of thing. I know this is not going to be popular, but I'm just saying what I think just like everyone else here, but....Jesus is Lord everywhere, including the psychedelic realms. Incidentally a good tool to have handy if you do happen to encounter entities while tripping is to ask them if Jesus is their Lord. If there is hesitation or denial or distraction...you have your answer. The angels had no hesitation to declare themselves as on the side of Jesus. And there was an immediate sense of family once they did.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: Robcula]
    #25853361 -

That was a good trip.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #25853419 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
BrendanFlock said:
I don't think it comes down to.. did these people perform miracles or not.. but which miracles DID happen, and which ones did not!

Which miracles do you believe happened Markos?


As for myself, the miraculous has occurred through poignant and powerful synchronistic moments that I seemed to receive both as "instant karma" as well as an answer to petitionary prayer, and I have experienced clear telepathy on 7 occasions, so I am not dismissing 'miracles,' I am re-interpreting religious writing.

"...Jesus said, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who believe without seeing." - John 20:29


Wow, you said it all...Thanks for the input@


--------------------
Thank you for your Time...

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #25853895 -

How do you discern which miracles are real and which are fake? Do we have a base line?

  How are the laws of physics suspended in our favor?
Take the virgin birth for example, which is more likely, that the laws of physics were suspended to give birth to god or that a very young jweish girl was lying?
  I mean in the original Hebrew virgin meant young women not an actual virgin. I don't know, the monotheism that came from Abraham is very totalitarian. Just like a celestial North Korea. Wake up, praise the leader. Eat lunch, praise. Shit, praise. Bedtime, praise.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #25855102 -

LeningradCowboy said:
MarkostheGnostic said:
LeningradCowboy said:
You sir take life way too seriously


Serious like a heart attack, but serious does not preclude great joy. If you had any idea how precious your life was this thought would never even occur to you. Regardless. I live with a deep abiding joy that only gets occluded by clouds of emotion at times, but it sustains me, gives contentment, and diminishes fear. As Lao Tsu said, "Without leaving my house I can know the entire universe." I played with my adopted feral cat on the floor earlier, I am sipping a boxed Zinfandel. I'll slip into bed shortly after 4:00 a.m. with my Lady who is currently reading, when Garcia stops playing on the CD. I'll sleep 6-7 hours, maybe til noon. When it comes to clarity of intention and thought, I'm all about business.


OK big guru what is the value of my life? You don't know me so don't play that spiritual guru role on me.


Whomever you are addressing, it isn't me. You are projecting your own stuff onto a preconceived notion of who you think I am or are pretending to be. If you have a legitimate question I'll do my best to answer it. I don't know Jack about you so my responses are general, not personal. I am not playing a role here newbie. Best you familiarize yourself with members of the forum before you get testy. I've been here for 20 years if you want to pull up a post of mine from 1999 and see if the delivery is consistent. Nobody play-acts for 20 years. What were YOU doing 20 years ago? :lol:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: MushroomBush]
    #25855142 -

MushroomBush said:
do y'all think god or Jesus thinks tripping is a sin ? i know that drunkenness and addiction would be considered sinning right

i'm a believer, just wondering if there is any other Christians out there who could answer.



'God' isn't a man sitting on a cloud casting judgement calling acts 'sins'. 

'Sins' are simply acts (or even thoughts) which cause blockage in the creative divine mind.

It's not about what 'God', 'thinks' of you.  That merely suggests separation and individuality.  It's all you...and the things you do which can be detrimental to your purest potential, which in turn, dampens or fulfils the human experience.

Consuming mushrooms and LSD therefore is entirely subjective in accordance with what you achieve.  It can swing both ways, true to the principle of dualism. 

These substances merely amplify the poles of the dualistic state which is forever present in every day life in nature and the mind of man.

Your true self knows full well and identifies with every instance of 'sin' that it experiences, and ultimately that's all that matters.  Concern of what the next thinks simply bolsters the assumption of individuality, rather than divine union and bids to relieve oneself of responsibility of identifying with and heeding the call.  Your machine is complete and highly functional.  If you yourself throw a spanner into your works, you'll become know it if you commit to awareness and procuring it.

Again, it's all you.  Your world is of your mind and you are the judge and beneficiary of your own performance.

Edited by Duncan Rowhl (03/05/19 08:55 PM)

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: MushroomBush] * 2
    #25855588 -

It seems a lot of the answers you are recieving are from people who don't believe in God or they dont believe in the Christian conceptualization of God.
I happen. To consider myself a student of Christ and a son of God so I'm hoping I can answer your question in a more contextual manner than some of the previous responses.
  I'm paraphrasing scripture here but.
"Love you God with all of your heart might and soul and love your neighbor as you love yourself, all other commandments rest upon these two" this was Jesus' response when asked what the most important commandments are.
Also there is "seek ye first the kingdom and his righteousness and all of these things will be added to you"
  "People will say look here or look there but behold the kingdom of heaven is within" I'd be glad to add the exact places you will find these scriptures and their exact wording but for the sake of holding onto my train of thought I'll continue with my answer first.
  Pray, get in the scripture"the world is like a double edge sword dividing even bone and marrow, it's a discerner
of the heart" ask God to reveal these things to you through the scripture.
  I'm at a place in my life where I use psychedelics as a tool to attempt to create a more positive thought and lifestyle pattern and it seems after I trip I'm more prone to dedicate more time to prayer and learning about and from Jesus. It could be that all of this is just a grand attempt to reconcile drug use with my spirituality but I would have never even began seeking had it not been for a very humbling shroom experience. I'd like to say if psychedelic use in conjunction with a relationship with God doesn't create a conviction and it doesn't stop you from loving God, your neighbors nor does it stop you from seeking the kingdom then it might be that not only is it not a sin, but a useful tool to grow spiritually in the right circumstances. Hope this helped.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: Revelation88] * 1
    #25856118 -

Can I ask what did you get out of religion before psilocybin? I mean if the mushroom experience was a corner stone of your spiritual life then why associate that with the bible?
  If you got nothing out of religion but religion+psilocybin was great then maybe you just need mushrooms.
  I like the honesty about you just trying to justify drug use.
Back to the I initial question, I don't think so. The bible shows us gods concern for the type of garments you wear, who you love and how. Circumcisions...as an identifier of the choose people. Bitter water. The idea of epileptic fits being caused by demons... The mentioning of God's wraths and jealousy. I mean he's a jealous god. So in conclusion, who cares what ancient people's idea of a god was.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #25856479 -

LosTresOjos said:
Can I ask what did you get out of religion before psilocybin? I mean if the mushroom experience was a corner stone of your spiritual life then why associate that with the bible?



Not speaking for the person who you asked, but personal revelations brought about by the mushrooms experience can brilliantly coincide with the principles of The Bible and that's why it's so fascinating to those who witness it.

Your question assumes that The Bible is shaping experience, rather than the (holy) experience having shaped The Bible. :thumbup:

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #25857535 -

Quote:
is god ok with tripping ?




*puts hints of DMT in everything*

*puts psilocybin mushrooms everywhere*

*tells people to use plants for food and medicine*


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: LosTresOjos] * 1
    #25857663 -

That's an excellent question. I dont want to claim to know everything about the nature of God and spirituality so I want to preface by saying these are just my interpretations of scripture.
  The law/old testament is referred to in the bible as the ministry of condemnation/death later on in scripture it talks about God's desire to bring a new ministry the ministry of life. The reason the law was given was basically to humble the Jews and to show them that they couldn't live up to the perfect standard of God thus the reason to humble himself
  The finished work of the cross supercedes the law. There is a ton of scriptural backing for this interpretation and I'd be more than happy to quote those specific scriptures if you would like. So ultimately we can go back to the commandments that Jesus says are the most important. If I spend all of my time building relationships with love as a foundation and building my relationship with God than I dont have to worry about the ancients ideaoloies of God or levitical law.
  With that being said I'm more concerned with Jesus christ and his teachings which are in fact who he is.
  The God of the old testament was setting things up so that he could humble himself in order to have a relationship with us. The way I see it Jesus was an investment of himself into relationship with us. He purposely brought himself down to our level of imperfection so that we could be in relationship with each other.
  The way I see it the mushrooms only open my mind enough to be suggestible to the idea of a grand divinity. I'm such a skeptic that mushrooms acted as a tool to open my mind to more possibilities  than i thought imaginable. So without Jesus mushrooms dont put me on a path to love necessarily, they just open my mind to possibilities, and without a foundation I could believe anything on any given day.
  With that being said religion didn't do anything for me before mushrooms but not because it wasn't useful but because I wasn't seeking a relationship with God or with the church who are Gods people and that is Gods whole intention for creating us and the universe we live in. To create someone like him and give them the choice to have a relationship  with him. Before my mind was opened to that possibility I was more or less lost and didn't necessarily believe in any sort of spirituality. At the end of the day if I never tripped again it wouldn't negatively effect my relationship with God but if I step away from my relationship with God I could even see tripping leading me down a self destructive path.
  I want to add a few thoughts I've been playing with just to possibly answer some of the next questions you may have for me. If God is so good and so loving why the suffering? Why allow people to live in sin? Why send people to hell?
  I think when God sent his "son" to us he was forfeiting an aspect of his own power. See if God is all powerful than his will should automatically done, but in creating us he allowed us to share in his power and allowed us to will things as well. Following that logic people make a decision not to have a relationship with the origins of love and that is hell. Peoples selfish intentions are what causes suffering for them and the people around them(we are really all connected all "one body" so what you do to others you are really doing to yourself)
I hope this answers your questions, I know it was a little long winded but I feel like the information is all pertinent to giving you an idea of what it has meant for me to seek truth in conjunction with the use of psychedelics. I mean no disrespect nor do I have any intentions of condemning anyone here, I just want to share aspects of my testimony regarding what a powerful force love is. Thanks for your time.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: Revelation88]
    #25858356 -

Quote:
If God is so good and so loving why the suffering?



Despite how often this one is heard, we really need to love this question for its Q.E.D.irony.



First it demonstrates what they assume 'God' to be (a judgemental being).

Next, because of their idea, they don't believe and therefore shut themselves off and stop seeking - if ever they started.

Finally, because they don't believe (their own idea), they clutch their ego as the only assumed safety.

Ego then renders 'hell', or the unpleasant state of feeling separate and lost and wars are waged within and without.

...then ones own making of the negative state, prompts the question; 'Why all the suffering'! :grin:


The 'Leap of Faith' is surrendering the assumed false egoic safety to break out of that destructive, self-fulfilling loop. :thumbup:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (03/07/19 12:44 PM)

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #25858383 -

Duncan Rowhl said:
LosTresOjos said:
Can I ask what did you get out of religion before psilocybin? I mean if the mushroom experience was a corner stone of your spiritual life then why associate that with the bible?



Not speaking for the person who you asked, but personal revelations brought about by the mushrooms experience can brilliantly coincide with the principles of The Bible and that's why it's so fascinating to those who witness it.

Your question assumes that The Bible is shaping experience, rather than the (holy) experience having shaped The Bible. :thumbup:


Yes I do assume that. Do I assume the laws of physics can be interrupted? Can we see any evidence of this?

People are not born with biblical knowledge so yes the bible is influencing our lives. Not the other way around. Do we attribute sickness to unseen unheard demons like they did in the bible? Our experience is manipulating everything. Even the infallible word of god.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #25858397 -

LosTresOjos said:
Yes I do assume that. Do I assume the laws of physics can be interrupted? Can we see any evidence of this?


If you feel The Bible is shaping experience, you are free to seek the evidence.

Quote:
People are not born with biblical knowledge so yes the bible is influencing our lives.


The Bible is not influencing the lives of people who haven't yet read it.

The order of acts of having a holy experience and reading scripture is the fundamental factor.  That dictates if there is indoctrination at play.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: Revelation88]
    #25858438 -

Revelation88 said:
That's an excellent question. I dont want to claim to know everything about the nature of God and spirituality so I want to preface by saying these are just my interpretations of scripture.
  The law/old testament is referred to in the bible as the ministry of condemnation/death later on in scripture it talks about God's desire to bring a new ministry the ministry of life. The reason the law was given was basically to humble the Jews and to show them that they couldn't live up to the perfect standard of God thus the reason to humble himself
  The finished work of the cross supercedes the law. There is a ton of scriptural backing for this interpretation and I'd be more than happy to quote those specific scriptures if you would like. So ultimately we can go back to the commandments that Jesus says are the most important. If I spend all of my time building relationships with love as a foundation and building my relationship with God than I dont have to worry about the ancients ideaoloies of God or levitical law.
  With that being said I'm more concerned with Jesus christ and his teachings which are in fact who he is.
  The God of the old testament was setting things up so that he could humble himself in order to have a relationship with us. The way I see it Jesus was an investment of himself into relationship with us. He purposely brought himself down to our level of imperfection so that we could be in relationship with each other.
  The way I see it the mushrooms only open my mind enough to be suggestible to the idea of a grand divinity. I'm such a skeptic that mushrooms acted as a tool to open my mind to more possibilities  than i thought imaginable. So without Jesus mushrooms dont put me on a path to love necessarily, they just open my mind to possibilities, and without a foundation I could believe anything on any given day.
  With that being said religion didn't do anything for me before mushrooms but not because it wasn't useful but because I wasn't seeking a relationship with God or with the church who are Gods people and that is Gods whole intention for creating us and the universe we live in. To create someone like him and give them the choice to have a relationship  with him. Before my mind was opened to that possibility I was more or less lost and didn't necessarily believe in any sort of spirituality. At the end of the day if I never tripped again it wouldn't negatively effect my relationship with God but if I step away from my relationship with God I could even see tripping leading me down a self destructive path.
  I want to add a few thoughts I've been playing with just to possibly answer some of the next questions you may have for me. If God is so good and so loving why the suffering? Why allow people to live in sin? Why send people to hell?
  I think when God sent his "son" to us he was forfeiting an aspect of his own power. See if God is all powerful than his will should automatically done, but in creating us he allowed us to share in his power and allowed us to will things as well. Following that logic people make a decision not to have a relationship with the origins of love and that is hell. Peoples selfish intentions are what causes suffering for them and the people around them(we are really all connected all "one body" so what you do to others you are really doing to yourself)
I hope this answers your questions, I know it was a little long winded but I feel like the information is all pertinent to giving you an idea of what it has meant for me to seek truth in conjunction with the use of psychedelics. I mean no disrespect nor do I have any intentions of condemning anyone here, I just want to share aspects of my testimony regarding what a powerful force love is. Thanks for your time.


 
My first question. You know some of the nature of god? Because I can ask 50 people about this and get 50 different answers.
  The way I see this is you were getting no where with religion and you added mushrooms to the equation. Now that you've had an experience ( which is bizzare to say the least) you go back and use the parts that weren't working. The parts that try to explain this experience of ours. Using the backdrop of christianity.
  Since the Jesus myth does not originate with the Jews. The virgin birth goes way back. Why not follow the original non bastardized version?

Jesus/God of old "testament" would not be bothered by suffering. He created a torture palace for those that don't acknowledge him.
  Why don't the ten commandments speak about abortion, Genocide, rape, slavery? Maybe because he goes on to command his choosen people to carry out those acts of violence. Remember when god would have his army capture virgin girls? These are not things the mushroom communicate.

  I can understand the comfort of a sky daddy, but I don't understand throwing logic and reason out the window and accept something by faith. Faith is required when there is no proof. Faith can lead you to be a Christian, Muslim or anything. So it's not a good measure of truth.

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #25858439 -

this is why im asking i know enoch was left out of the bible, but i believe it is part of the story

book of enoch

chapter 7 verse 1

1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants.

i know he put plants here for us to use as food and medicine but this verse has been making me wonder, i believe we are in the end times now and i dont want to screw up in the forth quarter with a minute to go lol. i want to trip but i dont want to be tricked by satan either....taking mushrooms was what brought me to god in the first place, so maybe that was their purpose in my life. if so im ok with that.

ive been studying scripture and praying about this latley, but this was the verse that originally made me wonder about it

maybe its ok for healing and growth, but not for recreation ? i love reading the awnsers so thank you all very much


--------------------
                                                               
                                                                                    Agar Recipe's

Edited by MushroomBush (03/07/19 01:17 PM)

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Re: is god ok with tripping ? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #25858454 -

Duncan Rowhl said:
LosTresOjos said:
Yes I do assume that. Do I assume the laws of physics can be interrupted? Can we see any evidence of this?


If you feel The Bible is shaping experience, you are free to seek the evidence.

Quote:
People are not born with biblical knowledge so yes the bible is influencing our lives.


The Bible is not influencing the lives of people who haven't yet read it.

The order of acts of having a holy experience and reading scripture is the fundamental factor.  That dictates if there is indoctrination at play.


Are you kidding me? Slavery was propped up by the use of slaves in the bible. Your going to tell me slaves that never heard of the bible were not influenced by it? They were turned into garbage using scripture to give it some back bone.
  The large amount of Christian based legislation... If walk around with rose colored glasses on you will not notice the red flags waving.
  The whole think reeks of totalitarianism. Thought crimes and all.

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