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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
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LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read 6
#25795326 - 02/06/19 02:39 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Written by Stanislav Grof, a psychiatrist who formerly held 1000s of high dose LSD (200-500mcg) sessions for his patients, working with them in-depth to get them out of their issues. The outcomes spawned a theory regarding the structure of consciousness and a road map of what travellers will encounter with repeated heroic doses with closed eyes.
For ,me personally, the roadmap has proven true - over 25 years of tripping I graduated from the abstract to the biographic, from the biographic to the perinatal, through the Ego Death phase into the Transpersonal realm, on conventional psychedelics but actually completing it on dissociatives, proving that the cartography of the psyche isnt just something that happens when you take LSD (or hyperventilate) but something that is also accessible on completely opposite entheogens.
Study it. Its not a woowoo dreamy eyed publication but it describes your inner workings in detail - and what to expect from life as a Tripper, what there is to gain if you COMMIT yourself to making the most of your sessions.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Winds
Scientist


Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 590
Last seen: 4 years, 12 days
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Asante] 2
#25795371 - 02/06/19 02:54 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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It looks very interesting. I can just imagine understanding with more intimacy the relationship between 5HT receptors and perception.
LSD pretty much tickles a shit ton of them creating a complex mix of irregularly processed stimuli from reality. Beautiful phenomenons arise from that. But what I'm more curious is can we do SAR on LSD to gain selectivity for the desired subgroup of enzymes to kind of distill the psychedelic experience into its different components : physical effects, emotional effects, cognitive effects and subconscious effects. That would give huge insight into defining more clearly what consciousness is and how it works.
Thanks for the share!
edit : looks like I'm binge-reading this
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Edited by Winds (02/06/19 03:03 PM)
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MrCraggles


Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Winds]
#25795456 - 02/06/19 03:36 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Damn the file won't open for me?
-------------------- Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: MrCraggles]
#25795461 - 02/06/19 03:39 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Its a .pdf in a .rar and its checked, it should work.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Ferrum
Empirical teacher


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 400
Loc: Have to stop moving befor...
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Asante]
#25796166 - 02/06/19 09:27 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yep I downloaded too, tried to open in google docs ...no dice , any ideas for opening it?
-------------------- The really important facts were that spatial relationships had ceased to matter very much and that my mind was perceiving the world in terms of other than spatial categories. At ordinary times the eye concerns itself with such problems as where? — how far? — how situated in relation to what? In the mescaline experience the implied questions to which the eye responds are of another order. Place and distance cease to be of much interest. The mind does its perceiving in terms of intensity of existence, profundity of significance, relationships within a pattern."
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Ferrum
Empirical teacher


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 400
Loc: Have to stop moving befor...
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Winds]
#25796174 - 02/06/19 09:31 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Winds said: It looks very interesting. I can just imagine understanding with more intimacy the relationship between 5HT receptors and perception.
LSD pretty much tickles a shit ton of them creating a complex mix of irregularly processed stimuli from reality. Beautiful phenomenons arise from that. But what I'm more curious is can we do SAR on LSD to gain selectivity for the desired subgroup of enzymes to kind of distill the psychedelic experience into its different components : physical effects, emotional effects, cognitive effects and subconscious effects. That would give huge insight into defining more clearly what consciousness is and how it works.
Thanks for the share
Unc just did some X-ray crystallography on the 5ht sites and they found when lsd binds a cap develops over the receptor and it doesn't release for some great length of time , prevention of this allows obviously for the longer serotonic effects . I'll see if I can post the link here in a minute .
Article title :This is LSD attached to a brain cell serotonin receptor
January 26, 2017 NEUROLOGY, RESEARCH, SUBSTANCE ABUSE
At https://healthtalk.unchealthcare.org/this-is-lsd-attached-to-a-brain-cell-serotonin-receptor/
-------------------- The really important facts were that spatial relationships had ceased to matter very much and that my mind was perceiving the world in terms of other than spatial categories. At ordinary times the eye concerns itself with such problems as where? — how far? — how situated in relation to what? In the mescaline experience the implied questions to which the eye responds are of another order. Place and distance cease to be of much interest. The mind does its perceiving in terms of intensity of existence, profundity of significance, relationships within a pattern."
Edited by Ferrum (02/06/19 09:34 PM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Ferrum]
#25796548 - 02/07/19 03:57 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferrum said: Yep I downloaded too, tried to open in google docs ...no dice , any ideas for opening it?
.rar is a file compression format. You'll need to decompress it first.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,528
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Asante]
#25796612 - 02/07/19 05:48 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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in the funny molecular noodle depiction looks like the receptor is gently hugging the lysergic acid.
I finally tried to read a Grof book last year after seeing so many references to it on the forums here.
during the lengthy intro to the book, I reacted badly to read that Grof raises the importance of his being different from all his colleagues and predecessors without explaining the facts of how he is different. In that way it is like the big sell approach in which you wear down the resistance of your mark and then go in for the sale.
Can anyone here explain significant points of Grof's ideas that are not about himself and how important he should be? Hopefully the significant points hang together on facts without being circular arguments that rely on belief of another cosmology.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Winds]
#25796644 - 02/07/19 06:10 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Winds said:
LSD pretty much tickles a shit ton of them creating a complex mix of irregularly processed stimuli from reality. Beautiful phenomenons arise from that. But what I'm more curious is can we do SAR on LSD to gain selectivity for the desired subgroup of enzymes to kind of distill the psychedelic experience into its different components : physical effects, emotional effects, cognitive effects and subconscious effects. That would give huge insight into defining more clearly what consciousness is and how it works.
A huge problem is that there is incredible inter-individual variability in the subjective experience. Even under controlled conditions, where the "set and setting" (including dose) can be tightly controlled, experiences are widely different across volunteers.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: redgreenvines] 2
#25796678 - 02/07/19 06:29 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: in the funny molecular noodle depiction looks like the receptor is gently hugging the lysergic acid.
I finally tried to read a Grof book last year after seeing so many references to it on the forums here.
during the lengthy intro to the book, I reacted badly to read that Grof raises the importance of his being different from all his colleagues and predecessors without explaining the facts of how he is different. In that way it is like the big sell approach in which you wear down the resistance of your mark and then go in for the sale.
Can anyone here explain significant points of Grof's ideas that are not about himself and how important he should be? Hopefully the significant points hang together on facts without being circular arguments that rely on belief of another cosmology.
This is why you skip intros
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Winds
Scientist


Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 590
Last seen: 4 years, 12 days
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Ferrum]
#25797246 - 02/07/19 12:32 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferrum said:
Quote:
Winds said: It looks very interesting. I can just imagine understanding with more intimacy the relationship between 5HT receptors and perception.
LSD pretty much tickles a shit ton of them creating a complex mix of irregularly processed stimuli from reality. Beautiful phenomenons arise from that. But what I'm more curious is can we do SAR on LSD to gain selectivity for the desired subgroup of enzymes to kind of distill the psychedelic experience into its different components : physical effects, emotional effects, cognitive effects and subconscious effects. That would give huge insight into defining more clearly what consciousness is and how it works.
Thanks for the share
Unc just did some X-ray crystallography on the 5ht sites and they found when lsd binds a cap develops over the receptor and it doesn't release for some great length of time , prevention of this allows obviously for the longer serotonic effects . I'll see if I can post the link here in a minute .
Article title :This is LSD attached to a brain cell serotonin receptor
January 26, 2017 NEUROLOGY, RESEARCH, SUBSTANCE ABUSE
At https://healthtalk.unchealthcare.org/this-is-lsd-attached-to-a-brain-cell-serotonin-receptor/
Yes! I read about this because I was researching about my migraine medication. https://cbm.msoe.edu/crest/posters/2015CUWSP/15sumatriptan.pdf
They describe the difference between LSD and these migraine medication, that's mentionned in the article you posted
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Winds
Scientist


Registered: 11/02/18
Posts: 590
Last seen: 4 years, 12 days
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: badchad]
#25797256 - 02/07/19 12:38 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
Winds said:
LSD pretty much tickles a shit ton of them creating a complex mix of irregularly processed stimuli from reality. Beautiful phenomenons arise from that. But what I'm more curious is can we do SAR on LSD to gain selectivity for the desired subgroup of enzymes to kind of distill the psychedelic experience into its different components : physical effects, emotional effects, cognitive effects and subconscious effects. That would give huge insight into defining more clearly what consciousness is and how it works.
A huge problem is that there is incredible inter-individual variability in the subjective experience. Even under controlled conditions, where the "set and setting" (including dose) can be tightly controlled, experiences are widely different across volunteers.
I'm talking about creating a compounds derived from LSD's structure to gain selectivity for specific 5HT receptors over others, unlike traditional psychedelics. I wonder if it would be possible to only affect your visual perception, or create a hallucinogen that affects only your smell?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Asante]
#25806394 - 02/11/19 06:08 PM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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funnily enough, the alchemists describe (& pertain to) states that can be more easily studied (with guidance, recommended always) with psychedelic drugs -- which also goes to show a certain "mapping" of psyche that can be acquiesced as the selfsame processes.
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: akira_akuma]
#25807061 - 02/12/19 02:18 AM (4 years, 11 months ago) |
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Stanislav Grof is 'out there'. But he's genuine, and he's a pioneer. Check out also:
"The Adventure of Self-Discovery"
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: beforethedawn] 1
#26256482 - 10/16/19 04:14 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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What he describes though about how the mind works, how everything is ordered in sequences of related experiences and how psychedelics can open these up and let you travel down them, further and further back in time to before you were born, I DID that. It checks out, I experienced that and the healing that comes with it.
Took me 25 years but now I'm clean, intense traumatic horrors I lived through no longer affect me.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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pixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Asante] 1
#26256676 - 10/16/19 05:50 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Currently in the baby steps of this process Going it all alone so taking things slowly
LSD Doorway to the Numinous is another excellent, newer book from Grof on the same subject
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pixelpopper
Crap Artist

Registered: 09/20/13
Posts: 4,022
Loc: Dreamland
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Asante]
#26258204 - 10/17/19 10:43 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Asante - what kind of dosages were you working with in relation to this process? Just wondering since I know you're a low dose advocate
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Typerwritermonky
shboop a doop a doop


Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 5,375
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: pixelpopper]
#26258839 - 10/17/19 03:04 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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This guy teaches at a school in San Francisco and regularly holds talks and presentations in the Bay Area.
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longstrangetrip8
Stranger

Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 233
Last seen: 11 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: Typerwritermonky]
#26259398 - 10/17/19 06:46 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I recently read “Beyond the Brain” by Grof and it completely blew my mind. I do not necessarily believe (or oppose) everything I read in the book, but it was a very eye opening and absolutely enhanced and expanded my perception of the nature of the mind and psychedelics, and what both are capable of.
Anyone ever try his holotropoc breathwork?
Grof is a legend.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
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Re: LSD PSYCHOTHERAPY - The most interesting book on what's out there in trips you have ever read [Re: pixelpopper]
#26260149 - 10/18/19 05:58 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
pixelpopper said: Asante - what kind of dosages were you working with in relation to this process? Just wondering since I know you're a low dose advocate
Psychedelics werent getting it done for me, because I lack the fortitude and stamina with them. This is what dragged it out so long.
MXE is the drug that got it done for me, a dissociative. That underlined for me that yes indeed, this is something of the brain and not an artifice of high dose LSD.
The mystery of the Hole and the addictive, seductive pull gave me the fortitude and stamina to push through.
delivered me from the perinatal realm and I'm forever grateful 
Mushrooms awoke it but Methoxetamine cured it.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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