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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Your opinions on this bulk recipee?
    #2579272 - 04/19/04 08:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

A friend of mine has is about to  try out a new bulk substrate recipee and would sincerely appreciate any input that you all may have.
First of all he has done several grows and has good results so he has decided to do a little experimenting. So anyway here is what he has got going on.
1. 50% of the mix is a 80\20 compost cow poo mix
2. The remaining 50% is a blend of vermiculite,sphagnum peat,and dash of perlite for enhanced airation.
3. He blended all of this together with spring water to the correct consistancy and checked the pH. Added calcium carbonate to achieve 8.0 reading.
4. Since the manure content was slightly on the low side he supplemented the mixture with a small amount of bat guano which is an excellent source of nutrients.
5. He also threw in a little oyster sand to keep pH under control throughout what he hopes will be multiple flushes.

He is basically trying to develope a bulk substrate formula that will perform better over the course of several flushes. He believes this recipee will be an improvement over his earlier,more traditional mixes which he believed to lack in the ability to retain even moisture content and promote the open,airy environment that the mycelium seem to thrive on.

So just tell me what you think and feel free to suggest improvements or mention anything that he may be screwing up!
                                Thanks
                                Mykey


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OfflineDerek
member
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 158
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Your opinions on this bulk recipee? [Re: Mykey]
    #2579497 - 04/19/04 09:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

If I were you I'd make more than 50% of my substrate nutritive.

If you want to increase airiness and moisture retention, stick with your verm idea, but up the manure content on those formulas.

It was my impression that airiness and moisture content were the responsibility of the casing layer, though.

As long as your substrate colonizes, it doesn't need extra aeration, and as long as you case well, and dunk after flushes, moisture content shouldn't be a problem with "traditional mixes."

Shrooms don't eat "nutrients", bat guano useless.

My 2 pence.


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Your opinions on this bulk recipee? [Re: Derek]
    #2579975 - 04/19/04 11:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Shrooms dont eat nutrients! Why do you suppose that every growth medium that is effective in fruiting big,healthy shrooms contains a source of nutrition such as brf,cow poo, and straw?
I think you have a valid point on the manure content. That is where the bat guano comes in. It is a more concentrated form of nutrients,especially nitrogen, and it does a good job of a slow release into the substrate.
Thanks for the advice Derek! I appreciate it very much. I think you will have to do some convincing on" the shrooms dont eat nutrients" thing ,though! I also agree with your assesment of the casing layers purpose in the airiness and moisture content. The casing layer not only provides moisture but also helps to trap the moisture in the substrate that should be there from the preperation process,and keep the contams out. The purpose of an airier substrate is simply to aid in faster colonization;not to replace the casing layer.
Thanks again for the advice Derek.


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OfflineGr0wer
always improving
Male

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,008
Loc: El Paso, TX Flag
Last seen: 2 days, 3 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Your opinions on this bulk recipee? [Re: Mykey]
    #2580054 - 04/19/04 11:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I bet gal for gal, vs your substrate you would get more out of plain old dung/straw. They do need nutrients, they need poo and hay, not vermiculite peat or pealite. As derek said you only have a 50% nutritive substrate so you will get 1/2 the shrooms.

Straw is an excelent airater i use it in my organic tobacco and poppy garden. It's WAY WAY cheaper then coir or pearlite and it breaks down into nutes.


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Your opinions on this bulk recipee? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2580122 - 04/19/04 11:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks GrOwer I appreciate the advice and understand exactly what you are saying. Before the verm was mixed in the bat guano was applied as in the pf tek in order to evenly coat the verm with food. The perlite was more or less thrown in because there was a little left in the bag and wasnt going anywhere else but the can. I will try and get some pictures from him to post as things progress so we can all see how well it works. In the meantime I'll pass on your advice.


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OfflineDerek
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Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 158
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Your opinions on this bulk recipee? [Re: Mykey]
    #2580246 - 04/19/04 11:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The part of dung that the mushroom eats is nothing but the undigested plant matter (carbs). Thats why grain and straw are also used as substrate. Bat guano has no undigested plant matter, hence no real nutritional value.

Yeah, guano will give your plants everything from A to Zinc, but nothing to eat.

Plants survive off of water, sunlight, and "vitamins" from the soil. Your plants will appreciate the guano.

Mushies don't photosynthesize, so they have to eat, and what they eat are carbs, they won't survive on just vitamins anymore than you would. Your fungus can do without the guano.

Think about it this way, what would make your kid grow big and fat? a huge plate of vitamin pills, or a huge plate of rice.

I would feed my kid a truckload of rice so that he'll get nice and fat.

You are trying to feed the same kid half that rice, putting a shitload of fiber (indigestible)in it, and adding a handfull of vitamin pills, just so he'll eat it faster.

Which kid is going to have better nutrition, yours or mine?


But all this is moot, since you did it already, let us know how your kid turned out, eating centrum and dirt.


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OfflineGr0wer
always improving
Male

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 6,008
Loc: El Paso, TX Flag
Last seen: 2 days, 3 hours
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Your opinions on this bulk recipee? [Re: Derek]
    #2582604 - 04/20/04 02:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

hee is correct man /\ shrooms use carbs and guano has no carbs. manure is uded because cows are horible digesters and basicly just shread up and start to break down the grass for us to use for shrooms.


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InvisibleMykey
spectraltraveler

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 542
Re: Your opinions on this bulk recipee? [Re: Gr0wer]
    #2582951 - 04/20/04 03:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Ok,you guys have convinced me that the bat poop was a wasted effort!
What you are saying makes absolute sense in every way. I guess it was just one of those things you do without thinking it through for more than ten seconds or so. Ha! Cant believe my friend ,who is quite scientific minded,overlooked the fact that shrooms don't photosynthesize therefore don't need the "vitamins"! I guess the lack of chlorophyl should have tipped him off ,huh. How embarrasing for him.LOL Well,anyway,thanks so much for your advice and patience with such a hard head. ---Kinda crazy that those cows still cant digest worth a shit ,even with all those stomachs isn't it? Like you said;guess its just a three stage processing factory sent from heaven to grow the fruits of the gods!!!

You Guys Kick Ass,
Mykey


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