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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25770244 - 01/26/19 04:38 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

our past meddling in the region has been a series of humanitarian disasters.
If we're gonna fuck around in south american politics, we should go whole-hog and manifest destiny the joint.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #25770254 - 01/26/19 04:43 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Monroe doc still in effect.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #25770366 - 01/26/19 05:45 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I'm talking about real gunboat diplomacy.  Roman style shit.  Sign on the dotted line or get beaten red, white and blue.  Meanwhile, the navy makes sure that everyone fucks off and minds their own bidness.
I'm mostly j/k.  We should annex Mexico and leave south america alone...for now.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25770635 - 01/26/19 08:18 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Thundermuscle75 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
The real problem is that there is no legitimately elected president of Venezuela.



By that standard, there is no legitimately elected President of the United States either.  :shrug:



Lol, based on the electoral college?



Based on the DNC cheating.  Based on Trump getting fewer popular votes.  Based on foreign political click bait ads (according to some).

How do you think the Venezuelan elections were less legitimate?




Yes. Are you really suggesting a population of starving people are going to re-elect the disasterous regime that put them in that position. Venezuela is not a democracy. The Chavez Maduro regime is a dictatorship that has completely destroyed the country. I have no idea why anyone would defend these monsters

Somebody needs to put bullet in between Maduro’s eyes and end the suffering of Venezuelan people.
It’s disgusting what these people have done to that country. What a disaster entirely the fault of the country’s inept and corrupt leadership


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Edited by koods (01/26/19 08:22 PM)


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 1
    #25770678 - 01/26/19 08:52 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Your hawkish today.

@bal

Imperialism,its what's for breakfast.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (01/26/19 08:53 PM)


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #25770685 - 01/26/19 08:57 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

The Chavez maduro regime has COMPLETELY destroyed that country. Their continued existence is a crime against humanity.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25770725 - 01/26/19 09:37 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Lack of a free press, for starters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Venezuela



That's according to Reporters Without Borders, which is an organization funded by the CIA.
Quote:

Officially devoted to "freedom of the press", RWB is best known for its smear campaigns against Washington’s political foes like Cuba and Venezuela. RWB has recently added five new names to its "evil guys list", who also happen to fit in with Washington’s destabilization agenda.








That's according to Voltairenet.org, which is A Terrible Source.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #25770730 - 01/26/19 09:41 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

:lol:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 1
    #25770862 - 01/26/19 11:24 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The Chavez maduro regime has COMPLETELY destroyed that country. Their continued existence is a crime against humanity.



Venezuela had the strongest economy in South America under Chavez, until the US got extremely nervous about socialism doing well and intervened.


At any rate, does the US get to pick Venezuela's leader?

Since you think Trump is a disaster, would you be ok with Russia meddling with our leadership?  Oh wait, you've already made it pretty clear that you're not.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25770876 - 01/26/19 11:35 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

The usual champions have spoken out against Trump:

Tulsi Gabbard's statement
Quote:

The United States needs to stay out of Venezuela. Let the Venezuelan people determine their future. We don't want other countries to choose our leaders--so we have to stop trying to choose theirs.




Bernie Sander's statement
Quote:

...we must learn the lessons of the past and not be in the business of regime change or supporting coups – as we have in Chile, Guatemala, Brazil, and the Dominican Republic. The United States has a long history of inappropriately intervening in Latin American countries; we must not go down that road again.




Ro Khanna's response to Trump
Quote:

Let me get this straight. The US is sanctioning Venezuela for their lack of democracy but not Saudi Arabia? Such hypocrisy. Maduro’s policies are bad and not helping his people, but crippling sanctions or pushing for regime change will only make the situation worse.




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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25770991 - 01/27/19 01:14 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Craig Murray just posted an interesting article on Venezuela


The Vultures of Caracas
Quote:

...look at this photo of supporters of CIA poster-boy, the West’s puppet unelected “President” Juan Guaido, taken at a Guaido rally in Caracas two days ago and published yesterday in security services house journal The Guardian. Please take a really close look at the photo. Blow it up as big as you can. Scan individual people in the crowd, one by one.



These are not the poor and most certainly not the starving. Look at these Guaido supporters, one by one by one. This designer spectacled, well-coiffed, elegantly dressed, sleekly jowled group does not know hunger. This group does not know want. This is a gathering of the nicely off section of society. This is a group of those who have corruptly been siphoning Venezuela’s great wealth for decades and who want to make sure the gravy train flows properly in their direction again. It is, in short, a group of exactly the kind of people you would expect to support a CIA coup.

There is real suffering in Venezuela. The CIA is working hard to stoke violence, and the genuine poor will soon start to die, both in those egged on to riot and in the security services. But do not get taken in by the complete nonsense that this is a popular, democratic revolution. It is not. It is yet another barefaced CIA regime change coup.




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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25771012 - 01/27/19 01:27 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Another excellent analysis from Craig Murray:

The Coup in Venezuela Must Be Resisted

Venezuela has elections. Juan Guaido has never even been a Presidential candidate. Despite massive CIA opposition funding and interference over years as Big Oil tries to regain control of the World’s largest oil reserves, Nicolas Maduro was democratically re-elected in 2018 as President of Venezuela.

The coup now under way is illegitimate.

Sometimes I read back things I wrote in the past and decide I was wrong. Sometimes I think the article was right. Occasionally I am proud, and I am proud of my analysis on Venezuela written on 3 August 2017. I believe it is still valid.

Hugo Chavez’ revolutionary politics were founded on two very simple tenets:

1) People ought not to be starving in dreadful slums in the world’s most oil rich state
2) The CIA ought not to control Venezuela

Over the years, Chavez racked up real achievements in improving living standards for the poor and in providing health and education facilities. He was widely popular and both he and his successor, Nicolas Maduro, also racked up very genuine election victories. Maduro remains the democratically elected President.

But the dream went sour. In particular it fell foul of the tendency of centrally planned economies to fail to get the commodities people want onto shop shelves, and to the corruption that goes with centralization. The latter was certainly not worse than the right wing corruption it replaced, but that does not diminish its existence.

Every revolution will always displace an existing elite who are by definition the best educated and most articulate section of the population, with most access to resources including media – and to CIA secret backing, which has continued throughout at an increasing rate. Chavez did not solve this problem in the way Robespierre, Stalin, Trotsky or Mao would have done. He embraced democracy, let them be – and largely left their private offshore billions, and thus their power, untouched.

Inevitably the day came when economic and administrative failings cracked the solidity of support from the poor for the revolution. The right then stepped up their opposition with a campaign led by corrupt billionaires, which the western media has failed to acknowledge has been throughout murderously violent.

The problem with revolutionary millenarianism is that its failure to achieve utopia is viewed as disaster by its proponents. Maduro ought to have accepted that it is the nature of life that political tides ebb and flow, ceded power to the opposition gains in parliament, maintained the principles of democracy, and waited for the tide to turn back his way – taking the risk that the CIA might not give him the chance. Instead he has resorted to a constitutional fix which dilutes democracy, a precedent which will delight the right who in the long term have most to fear from the populace. Given the extreme violence of the opposition, I am less inclined to view arrests as unquestionably a straightforward human rights matter, than are some pro-western alleged human rights groups. But that Maduro has stepped off the democratic path I fear is true. He has, bluntly, gone wrong, however difficult the circumstances. I condemn both the departures from human rights best practice and the attempt to use a part indirectly elected body to subvert the elected parliament.

But, even today, Venezuela is still vastly more of a democracy than Saudi Arabia, and a far greater respecter of human rights than Israel in its dreadful repression of the Palestinians. Yet support for Israel and for Saudi Arabia are keystones of the foreign policy of those who today are incessant in their demands that we on the “left” condemn Venezuela. The BBC has given massively more news coverage to human rights abuse in Venezuela this last month than in a score of much worse countries I could name – than a score put together.

Human rights abuse should be condemned everywhere. But it only hits the headlines when practised by a country which is on the wrong side of the neo-con agenda.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25771016 - 01/27/19 01:29 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Are you serious? The opposition is a fraud because the people in the crowd don’t look poor enough?


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25771017 - 01/27/19 01:29 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Nicolas Maduro was democratically re-elected in 2018 as President of Venezuela. i




BULLSHIT


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25771023 - 01/27/19 01:32 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Nicolas Maduro was democratically re-elected in 2018 as President of Venezuela. i




BULLSHIT



Wow, what a well reasoned rebuttal.  You sure convinced me!  :flowstone:


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25771062 - 01/27/19 02:02 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Do you think that Guaido simply declaring himself as President is more democratic than the elections they just had in Venezuela?

Sometimes, your inability to think blows my mind.  "MUST LISTEN TO ESTABLISHMENT MEDIA...  MUST LISTEN TO ESTABLISHMENT MEDIA..."


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25771096 - 01/27/19 02:26 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

You know how I know the election was not legitimate? Maduro won. You have to suspend all common sense to believe that the people of Venezuela would re-elect Maduro.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25771102 - 01/27/19 02:29 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Same logic as to why the US elections were just a sham?  "MY GUY DIDN'T WIN.  IT MUST BE A SHAM!"


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25771231 - 01/27/19 04:41 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

The us elections weren’t a sham.

The Venezuelan elections were. The main opposition party, which was leading in almost every poll at the beginning of 2018, was banned from participating in the presidential election. How the fuck can you consider that a legitimate election if the current regime simply bans any competitor that has a chance to win.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25771235 - 01/27/19 04:52 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

fal are you so beholden to the chauvista ideology than you are unable to admit it has been the most disastrous regime in modern world history. In a decade and a half they have transformed one of the richest countries in South America into one of the poorest countries in the entire world. It’s a disgrace that anyone still defends this regime. :facepalm:


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