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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 1
    #25798512 - 02/08/19 03:43 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
When Wikileaks released that carter era memo about venezuala, did they say it was from 1978 or did they want everyone to assume it was recent and relevant to the current situation? We’re they using it for propaganda or was it you?




You're anti-wikileaks too, aren't you? lol

You're one of those incurable kind of liberals, who don't care about reason or truth. My gf's mom is like that. She was a fucking Clinton fanatic. Do you support American military involvement in Syria also? Did you support the Iraq war? How about Libya?

Honestly, the United States has been involved in so many illegal wars, and  overthrown so many governments in recent years (all of which had oil, or were related to the oil industry in some way). Now Venezuela, the largest oil producer in the world, and you just can't seem to connect the dots.

Well, I'm sorry bro, but we can't waste time holding your hand any longer. You're a true believer in a broken system. Some of us are getting really sick and tired of the actions of our government.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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"Real change never happens from the top down, but from the bottom up. The American Revolution, Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffage, etc' - Bernie Sanders
Every one of you should see this video.
"Not to be a dick but we grow felonies and are adults here. And that's the real answer!" - Trusted Cultivator


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25798554 - 02/08/19 04:56 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Nah I saw through Bush and his bullshit build up to Iraq. Just like I saw through Chavez and his true authoritarian nature 15 years ago. It was obvious to me there were would be no WMDs and it was obvious that Chavez would ruin Venezuela. I’ll admit I was surprised at the level of incompetence bush demonstrated in Iraq and Chavez and maduro have demonstrated in Venezuela.

I also don’t believe Iraq was about oil. The first gulf war was about oil.  The second gulf war was a chance to finish off the Bush family nemesis and implement the neoconservative dream of spreading American democracy. 9/11 provided the opportunity and they jumped at it.

BTW, Afghanistan has no oil, so you’re wrong about that too.

Syria? Idk. Isis was our fault but we also can’t fix everything.

As for Venezuela, you guys are marinating in conspiracy theories.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25798599 - 02/08/19 05:50 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

We are hooked on Oil.  Canada still has a lot more than we do.  We are draining our last reserves.  Getting desperate and tapping shale.

Thing is nations need the money.  Venezuela has a hard time shipping to Russia and Russia always wants something in return for security (weapons/men/food).


--------------------
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #25798639 - 02/08/19 06:49 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

The US now produces more oil than it ever has, and we produce more of it than any other country. We are a net exporter of fossil fuels. We have never needed Venezuelan oil less than right now. These conspiracy theories about American oil companies’ lust to get their hand on their oil reserves is absurd. Falwoof says that what is happening is retaliation for Venezuela nationalizing the oil industry. That happened in 1976.

The US’ main problem with Venezuela is totally unrelated to the oil industry. It’s all the other industries that are the problem. American and foreign assets have been seized systematically for the past half decade or more. Regardless of your opinion of socialism, when a foreign government simply takes a factory or business with no recourse or compensation then there is going to be friction.

The fact that almost all international trade with Venezuela has ceased is not the fault of the US or Europe. Nobody wants to do business with Venezuela. It is too risky. The people who ran those business les have fled.

98% of Venezuela’s revenue comes from oil now and their oil production is tanking because the experts and professionals have fled as well. The situation in Venezuela is due to massive mismanagement and corruption, not foreign meddling.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25798641 - 02/08/19 06:51 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
When Wikileaks released that carter era memo about venezuala, did they say it was from 1978 or did they want everyone to assume it was recent and relevant to the current situation? We’re they using it for propaganda or was it you?



They said it was 1978.  It was my mistake I didn't read the whole thing.  Do you think we don't care about oil anymore?  As wooof noted, you don't seem to care about the truth.  "Yay, Fal misquoted WikiLeaks - I can now ignore the mountain of evidence proving I'm misinformed, and pretend we no longer care about oil at the same time!"  :tard:


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 2
    #25798649 - 02/08/19 07:03 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
98% of Venezuela’s revenue comes from oil now and their oil production is tanking because the experts and professionals have fled as well.  The fact that almost all international trade with Venezuela has ceased is not the fault of the US or Europe.



So sanctions prohibiting the purchase of oil, which is 98% of their revenues, have nothing to do with it?  :flowstone:

Quote:

koods said:
The situation in Venezuela is due to massive mismanagement and corruption, not foreign meddling.



Would you please read some of the articles I posted and quit bragging how ignorant you are?

Sure, there is mismanagement and corruption, but it is greatly compounded by foreign meddling.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25798726 - 02/08/19 08:20 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

No the oil sanctions that are seven days old are not responsible for the years old economic crisis. What a ridiculous and dishonest suggestion


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 1
    #25798858 - 02/08/19 10:16 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

On democracy now they covered the story of weapons being found in US owned planes in Venezuela. 40 round trips from the 11th of Jan.

Watch from 4m40 for that story


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote] * 2
    #25798865 - 02/08/19 10:22 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

koods I thought this was a good summary of the Venezuela situation. If you skip to 3mins in it starts with what the situation was before Chavez, what he did and what went wrong. Venezuela is not an indictment of socialism. Poor monetary policy and overdependence on oil sure. Plus the significance of the sanctions. Now the US gets Guaido to bring "humanitarian aid" that the US was denying to them in the first place.



3mins in for Venezuela history before Chavez,
6m11 for what went wrong


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 2
    #25798956 - 02/08/19 11:20 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Nah I saw through Bush and his bullshit build up to Iraq. Just like I saw through Chavez and his true authoritarian nature 15 years ago. It was obvious to me there were would be no WMDs and it was obvious that Chavez would ruin Venezuela. I’ll admit I was surprised at the level of incompetence bush demonstrated in Iraq and Chavez and maduro have demonstrated in Venezuela.

I also don’t believe Iraq was about oil. The first gulf war was about oil.  The second gulf war was a chance to finish off the Bush family nemesis and implement the neoconservative dream of spreading American democracy. 9/11 provided the opportunity and they jumped at it.




I can't argue with that. I agree that Iraq was a personal vendetta, and George Bush made it look like the war in Iraq was a response to 9/11.

Quote:

BTW, Afghanistan has no oil, so you’re wrong about that too.




Afghanistan was the only country that we had any right to go into. Kind of funny, the only country that we had any reason to go to has no oil, and we didn't even go there first.

Quote:

Syria? Idk. Isis was our fault but we also can’t fix everything.




We're not in Syria because of ISIS, we're in Syria because of natural gas. We're actually arming ISIS in Syria anyway, inadvertantly or not. ISIS is using US weapons. We're fighting both sides of that conflict lmao! The conflict between the United States and Russia is all about whose natural gas pipeline gets to pass through Syria. Assad already okayed the Iran pipeline, and vetoed the Qatar pipeline. The United States won't sit for that, obviously.
If Qatar build a pipeline through Syria, it will cut into Russia's natural gas exports, 80% of which go to W Europe.

Quote:

As for Venezuela, you guys are marinating in conspiracy theories.




No, we're clearly just observing the facts. You've hardly refuted those facts. You've submitted your opinion, without any supporting evidence.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"Real change never happens from the top down, but from the bottom up. The American Revolution, Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffage, etc' - Bernie Sanders
Every one of you should see this video.
"Not to be a dick but we grow felonies and are adults here. And that's the real answer!" - Trusted Cultivator


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods] * 2
    #25798964 - 02/08/19 11:25 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The US now produces more oil than it ever has, and we produce more of it than any other country. We are a net exporter of fossil fuels. We have never needed Venezuelan oil less than right now. These conspiracy theories about American oil companies’ lust to get their hand on their oil reserves is absurd. Falwoof says that what is happening is retaliation for Venezuela nationalizing the oil industry. That happened in 1976.




I guess the problem that we're having here, is you fail to see the role of oil production and sales on geopolitics, and only see it as fuel. Sure, oil is fuel, but it is also leverage. Oil is a source of political power.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"Real change never happens from the top down, but from the bottom up. The American Revolution, Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffage, etc' - Bernie Sanders
Every one of you should see this video.
"Not to be a dick but we grow felonies and are adults here. And that's the real answer!" - Trusted Cultivator


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #25799026 - 02/08/19 12:01 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

"Afghanistan has untapped mineral and energy reserves estimated to be worth up to $US3 trillion with vast deposits of resources including oil and gas, iron ore, gold and copper."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-18/australia-backs-afghan27s-struggling-miners/4698082

also afghanistan is prime real estate for oil infrastructure throughout the entire region. Pipelines and refineries etc.


--------------------
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote]
    #25799029 - 02/08/19 12:03 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

it overlaps with Balochistan who also produces oil


--------------------
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote]
    #25799031 - 02/08/19 12:03 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
koods I thought this was a good summary of the Venezuela situation. If you skip to 3mins in it starts with what the situation was before Chavez, what he did and what went wrong. Venezuela is not an indictment of socialism. Poor monetary policy and overdependence on oil sure. Plus the significance of the sanctions. Now the US gets Guaido to bring "humanitarian aid" that the US was denying to them in the first place.



3mins in for Venezuela history before Chavez,
6m11 for what went wrong




Great videos.

I think the whole point here, is that the United States has no business deciding who should lead Venezuela. Whether it's about oil, or anything else, it's up to the Venezuelans to handle Venezuelan politics. How arrogant to say that we don't approve of Venezuelan democracy, so we are going to choose their leader, which is effectively what the US government has done, when they decided that Guaido is the new unelected leader. The US can't go around preaching 'Democracy' all over the world, and then skirt democracy whenever it suits them.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"Real change never happens from the top down, but from the bottom up. The American Revolution, Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffage, etc' - Bernie Sanders
Every one of you should see this video.
"Not to be a dick but we grow felonies and are adults here. And that's the real answer!" - Trusted Cultivator


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote]
    #25799034 - 02/08/19 12:05 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
"Afghanistan has untapped mineral and energy reserves estimated to be worth up to $US3 trillion with vast deposits of resources including oil and gas, iron ore, gold and copper."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-18/australia-backs-afghan27s-struggling-miners/4698082

also afghanistan is prime real estate for oil infrastructure throughout the entire region. Pipelines and refineries etc.




I seem to recall US troops guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan also... What the fuck was that about?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"Real change never happens from the top down, but from the bottom up. The American Revolution, Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffage, etc' - Bernie Sanders
Every one of you should see this video.
"Not to be a dick but we grow felonies and are adults here. And that's the real answer!" - Trusted Cultivator


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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25799040 - 02/08/19 12:07 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

exactly, opium production actually increased under American control.


--------------------
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #25799043 - 02/08/19 12:08 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

its funny that koods says its none of our business when that is basically our point for the US government - keep out of it - its none of your business.


--------------------
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote]
    #25799047 - 02/08/19 12:09 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

@koods did you support the invasion of Iraq? Assuming you'll evade again


--------------------
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: Tipote]
    #25799049 - 02/08/19 12:10 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Tipote said:
exactly, opium production actually increased under American control.




I have to tell you, American politics makes me feel fucking ill. I have to step away from it every so often, as I believe I will be doing shortly. Particularly as I watch the undemocratic process of the DNC/MSM in the coming weeks. I'm sure it will be rivoting.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"Real change never happens from the top down, but from the bottom up. The American Revolution, Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffage, etc' - Bernie Sanders
Every one of you should see this video.
"Not to be a dick but we grow felonies and are adults here. And that's the real answer!" - Trusted Cultivator


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OnlineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: US supports Venezuelan coup attempt - "Totally not meddling" [Re: koods]
    #25799080 - 02/08/19 12:30 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
The fact that almost all international trade with Venezuela has ceased is not the fault of the US or Europe.



So sanctions prohibiting the purchase of oil, which is 98% of their revenues, have nothing to do with it?



No the oil sanctions that are seven days old are not responsible for the years old economic crisis. What a ridiculous and dishonest suggestion



I was responding to your statement that "almost all international trade with Venezuela has ceased".  It's actually you who is being dishonest again (what's new?)


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (02/08/19 02:23 PM)


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