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What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites?
    #25762168 -

I mean I understand weathering, but wouldn't some petroleum jelly do just fine. Just a dab? Or elmers wood glue?

Why would I spend more money and time and fuel to buy heat and melt wax?


Anyone out there ever try something different than wax??


new ideas? Chewing gum maybe?

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: Fiery]
    #25762284 -

Ya know, you raise some good points. When I started growing on logs (it seems like a 100 years ago), the spawn supplier sold foam plugs to seal the inoculation points ( sawdust spawn, not dowels). This worked fine for one season, but eventually the crows discovered a new source of food and decimated my logs, eating the spawn out of any drill/spawn  holes they could reach. The logs that were attacked still produced, but it took twice as long for the logs to colonize and produce.

The next time I inoc'ed logs I used plug spawn but tried the wax-seal method. What a pain in the ass! It doubled my log-prep time. The work I could get done in a weekend turned into a 3 or 4 day ordeal. Dirty brushes, cans of wax all over the place etc. ...  Eventually, I just said screw the wax (including sealing the ends of the logs), and just used plug spawn instead of sawdust spawn.

Not sealing the ends of logs works for me 'cause if the weather is dry, I put the logs one end down in a 55 gallon drum filled with water for 8 or 12 hours, 5 or six logs at a time and keep the line going until rain/wet weather comes. Not sealing the ends allows water to soak into the logs, just like you water your xmas tree.

But this doesn't answer your question. Almost all aliphatic based glues (elmers, titebond etc.) are water based and thus liquefy when wet which is not good for 'shroom growing. But there must be something out there that is cheap and ez besides wax?

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25762891 -

Try not sealing at all, it's not really necessary.


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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: inski]
    #25762912 -

inski said:
Try not sealing at all, it's not really necessary.



does this apply to dowel spawn only?


--------------------
Rams' DIY spawn bags

Trade List


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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: inski]
    #25762951 -

inski said:
Try not sealing at all, it's not really necessary.



I've thought about this too. !

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25763098 -

scarabaeus said:
But this doesn't answer your question. Almost all aliphatic based glues (elmers, titebond etc.) are water based and thus liquefy when wet which is not good for 'shroom growing. But there must be something out there that is cheap and ez besides wax?



I think I'm going to try vasoline, it's waterproof mostly, cheap. Just a dab on the tip of a finger over each hole.

Think it will work?

I might also try elmers wood glue and only plug one side of the log, and then put the logs upsidedown so the glue doesn't get rained on.

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: Fiery]
    #25763699 -

Insects will steal your vaseline. Wax not only protects the spawn but also creates a moist microclimate at the inoculation site helping spawn grow into the log. Besides, a bottle of propane is under $6 if you get the camping stove kind, and will last you many logs so I do not really get the reference to the expense for fuel. If your financial situation is that dire perhaps this is not time to have a hobby...


--------------------
My improved magnetic stirrer
Breeding mushroom strains
Potato-Honey-Yeast-Agar Tek

My Enoki grow tek

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: Fiery]
    #25763736 -

If you really feel the need to use a wax-type tek, I would probably use Elmers glue as it is non toxic (I think?). What I would NOT do is use less inoculation points ( you mentioned only drilling/inocing 1/2 the log?). Not telling you what to do, but I wouldn't do that. I use 40 to 50 spawn holes in my 3 foot long oak logs. I find 3 foot  logs are the easiest to move around.

If you use Elmers glue, even though it is a water soluble glue, it should still seal the log and keep it sealed, even after a torrential downpour. You could probably even water down the Elmers say 50/50 and it would get the job done. Any glue that is water soluble will soak into wood effectively sealing it. I used to build musical instruments, and would sometimes seal 'end grain' with a thin film of hide glue so that when I glued the 2 pieces of wood together you don't end up with a 'starved joint'.

As I posted above, I no longer worry about using wax on my logs, and presently I have about 50 logs going. A couple of drums 1/4 filled with water works great for hydrating the logs -the end grain soaks up the water muy bueno! That is the way I do it anyway.

I should add that if you use dowels, you shouldn't have to worry about sealing. If you use sawdust spawn, bugs, birds and god knows what will probably ruin your day.

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25763834 -

Just an idea. Get some dowel rods and cut into tiny pieces. Boil in wax and drive in as a cap on top of the spawn.

Also the logging industry has a liquid log sealer that can be painted on. It is an emulsion at room temp. It is a little pricey ,but may be much easier.


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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: Quadman]
    #25763897 -

Not a bad idea. Years ago I prepped 25 oak logs with sawdust shiitake spawn plugged with little Styrofoam disks (which you had to buy from the spawn supplier), and the crows zeroed in on it and ate the spawn right out of the logs. The spawn plugs I buy (shiitake) are 5/16 inch, and where I live the local hardware store has 5/16 inch dowels -it probably would have worked.

The reasoning (old school) behind using wax is that it keeps moisture in, and contams out. It is especially recommended to seal the ends of the logs to keep moisture in. I have been growing shiitake logs for decades and never came to the conclusion that doing such is a plus. It is ez squeezy to keep the logs hydrated (if the weather is dry) by sticking them in a 1/4 filled drum for a few hours or overnight. Even 50 logs is no problem. If you have 2 drums and each drum takes 5 or 6 logs it is EZ. This is why I keep my logs to 3 feet -they are easy to move around.

Another reason I don't like to seal the ends of logs is 'cause after inoculation, you can see if the spawn took to the log by observing the mycelium as it grows in concentric circles on the end of the logs -always a good sign.

Anyway, if you are using sawdust spawn, dowel cut-offs may work, but you may have to soak them in water first so that they swell to make a tight fit in the holes drilled in the logs. Would it work? IDK. Would using watered down Elmers glue work? IDK lol. This is why I love this hobby -there is always something to think about and experiments to run. If this wasn't the case, I would just get bored and go do something else.  :headbang:

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25763926 -

I was thinking to use the log sealer on the spawn holes. Not so much for the ends.
Titebond 3 is a waterproof glue. Possible it would work.
I would say no to vaseline, it would seep into the hole and probably kill the mycelium.


--------------------

Edited by Quadman (01/23/19 06:28 PM)

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: Quadman]
    #25763963 -

Yeah, you make sense. I don't know how mycelium handles Vaseline. As far as the dowel plug idea goes, well it might work, or not lol! I was a carpenter at one point in my life, and using wood plugs to cover screw holes and such was routine -but the plugs were oversized and tapered so you could, and HAD to drive them home (to make them flush).

Like I said, I don't worry about sealing my logs using my present methods, but you gave me something to think about and maybe it can help the OP. Thinking outside the box is always a good thing. It is how we learn, grow and evolve to better ways of doing stuff!  :dancer:

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25763969 -

scarabaeus said:
If you really feel the need to use a wax-type tek, I would probably use Elmers glue as it is non toxic (I think?). What I would NOT do is use less inoculation points ( you mentioned only drilling/inocing 1/2 the log?). Not telling you what to do, but I wouldn't do that. I use 40 to 50 spawn holes in my 3 foot long oak logs. I find 3 foot  logs are the easiest to move around.

If you use Elmers glue, even though it is a water soluble glue, it should still seal the log and keep it sealed, even after a torrential downpour. You could probably even water down the Elmers say 50/50 and it would get the job done. Any glue that is water soluble will soak into wood effectively sealing it. I used to build musical instruments, and would sometimes seal 'end grain' with a thin film of hide glue so that when I glued the 2 pieces of wood together you don't end up with a 'starved joint'.

As I posted above, I no longer worry about using wax on my logs, and presently I have about 50 logs going. A couple of drums 1/4 filled with water works great for hydrating the logs -the end grain soaks up the water muy bueno! That is the way I do it anyway.

I should add that if you use dowels, you shouldn't have to worry about sealing. If you use sawdust spawn, bugs, birds and god knows what will probably ruin your day.



THanks for all the input guys!

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: Fiery]
    #25765327 -

There is the Hensley method that does a few chainsaw cuts and seals with duct tape. I found the filling of the chainsaw cuts to be kind of a PITA.

I do a slight variation on this where I do 2-3 bands of drilled holes that are about 2 holes wide. Usually around 1/6th,5/6th the length of the log. I inoculate with sawdust spawn but it should also work with dowels. Since the holes are only in a small area I wrap each band in moving stretch wrap that you can get from home depot. I did this method because I had plenty of wood, but was very limited on time.

These methods come from the idea that the mycelium travels faster with the grain than across. It does not produce as strongly as a normally inoculated log the first year and possibly over the life but takes a lot less time per log.


--------------------
Trade List

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: nasyn]
    #25765355 -

nasyn said:
There is the Hensley method that does a few chainsaw cuts and seals with duct tape. I found the filling of the chainsaw cuts to be kind of a PITA.

I do a slight variation on this where I do 2-3 bands of drilled holes that are about 2 holes wide. Usually around 1/6th,5/6th the length of the log. I inoculate with sawdust spawn but it should also work with dowels. Since the holes are only in a small area I wrap each band in moving stretch wrap that you can get from home depot. I did this method because I had plenty of wood, but was very limited on time.

These methods come from the idea that the mycelium travels faster with the grain than across. It does not produce as strongly as a normally inoculated log the first year and possibly over the life but takes a lot less time per log.



:thumbup::fuckyeah:

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: Fiery]
    #28042074 -

Hoping to regenerate this post...
Fiery, did you ever experiment with different sealers?  We've always used whatever wax we had handy (melted candles, etc) but I just ran out of wax and am curious what else works. I have some water-based roofing sealer (Sealoflex) that I'm guessing might seal better than wax and probably wouldn't hurt the mycelium.

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: John-Charleston]
    #28042742 -

hot glue gun ?

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: 0000000000000]
    #28042774 -

Toilet bowl wax is pretty cheap I bet it works good.

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: 0000000000000]
    #28043568 -

0000000000000 said:
hot glue gun ?


I thought about that. Might be an option but I don't see it working quickly or cheaply.  Caulking in a caulk gun might make better sense.

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: deadmandave]
    #28043569 -

deadmandave said:
Toilet bowl wax is pretty cheap I bet it works good.


Probably quick and cheap but that stuff never hardens. It would be a nightmare handling those logs in the future!

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: deadmandave]
    #28044652 -

deadmandave said:
Toilet bowl wax is pretty cheap I bet it works good.


That sounds like a crappy idea to me!!:laugh2:

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #28044682 -

:lol: I'm full of it

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: deadmandave]
    #28045240 -

I was a little worried you would think I was being serious. I am glad to see you have a sense of humor.

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: deadmandave]
    #28223641 -

Yes, toilet wax ring is made from wax 100%, and it is cheap. Ai Home Depot, 0.75 pound cost $1.98.

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Re: What else besides wax can seal drill hole inoculation sites? [Re: rhong]
    #28223785 -

I love toilet wax.  I grafted some trees a couple years ago and it is still on them.  They use to be a buck fifty but now is three something.  It would bother me not at all to use it.  I just did about 700 plugs and used bees wax mixed with some virgin olive oil.  Why virgin or something that would eventually rot?  Cause it was what I had around.  Mineral oil would probably be better.  Put in the wax in a bowl (that you don't care about)in the oven at about 180 and after it melts, stir in the oil.  Then, even if still a little stiff, you can still smash it in with just your fingers and no heat.  Worked great. 
Hope this helps more then hurts.
Cheers
gww

Edited by gww (03/10/23 02:28 PM)

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms
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