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syrian rue and vitamin C/E?
    #25742890 -

Hey guys!

As i have mentioned in other posts before, i've been taking ground syrian rue in capsules for a while now, a couple months or so daily. while i've noticed the side effects have gone down over time (nausea, vertigo, purging, tracers), i still usually get a bit of vertigo/lightheadedness even with the sea-bands i normally wear.

however, after a reading a recent study mentioning that metabolic syndrome might be a feedback loop of oxidation damage and vitamin E deficiency, and people with it have decreased levels of vitamins C and E, i thought i'd try taking supplements of both to see if it helps my own fatty, diet resistant issues. vitamin C is because vitamin E needs it as protection to be absorbed - without vitamin C, it simply gets ruined during digestion.

the weirdest thing happened though when taking them for the first time. i took them at the same time as i take my rue dose, and have done so the last 3 days. every single time... i haven't gotten a single twinge of lightheadedness, nausea, or anything really. it's a bit disconcerting because now i'm not sure if they're deactivating the rue's effect or somehow dampening the negative side effects to the point i no longer sense it. since rue's effects tend to linger when you've been dosing a while, even after stopping, i'm not entirely sure which it is, if either. so i thought i'd ask others who maybe take rue less often, to see if they want to experiment with this as well.

just in case it's important, the supplements i've been taking are Spring Valley vitamin C (as ascorbic acid, 500 mg) with rose hips (rosa canina, 10 mg); and Spring Valley Vitamin E, 400 I.U. (ingredient list says dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate). taking one of each daily at the same time as i take 3 grams or so syrian rue, encapsulated.

would love to figure out if this is a good thing, bad thing, placebo, or just a fluke and my negative tolerance went down so low i stopped feeling the crappy side effects entirely. would be nice if i stumbled upon a way to make the cheaper but less pleasant rue less less pleasant of a MAOI. :laugh:

Edited by Psion (01/14/19 02:16 AM)

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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: Psion]
    #25742926 -

I had a couple true experiences and they are are amazing. Simply true, nothing else. Maybe some alcohol. Two attempts at 3g just to see what it would do. The next day I took 12g, crushed in a tea. Biggest mistake of my life that I will never regret. It was the most abysmal, dark, fear wrenching place I have likely ever been. (I'm pretty extreme, all or nothing kind of guy. Hence the dose.) Rue took me to a place of absolute self loathing with a pitch black, electric field over my entire field of vision that was pulsing in and out. The tracers we SO FUCKING INTENSE and lasted for what felt like hours. I in fact know they were there for minutes.  I tried closing my eyes eyes in hopes of an escape...  anyways, after the initial purge and I realized I wasn't going for an actual trip,  and literally just fucked the rest of my night, I put on my favorite album, lay myself down and had some immensely unpleasant yet necessary self revelations. Plants are amazing. Thank the lord for this life.


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Sorry for wasting your time, or not. 
God bless -LoverOfTheLight

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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: LoveroftheLight]
    #25743004 -

I have no idea about vitamin c and e interaction, but if it works so wellI don't think it's a bad thing.
I'm interested in Syrian rue (peganum harmala) taken on its own , you may link me some of your threads with those experiences?

Also, where did you find it? Is it sold in pharmacies?
Thank you


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Looking for shrooms

ATTENTION
My Contributions on IDs are to be followed by your own research, as I'm not even close to being a mushroom expert, I'm here to learn too.

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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: EntheogenicSerpent]
    #25744615 -

as far as my experiences with rue goes, it's basically this: i took too much to start, around 3.5 grams, and oh man was it "fun". generally after an hour or so the first wave of major nausea would hit, and if i was moving around too much this would result in hurling. another wave of nausea and dizziness tends to hit around hours 2 and 3, though it's more dizziness and less nausea on the third hour usually. around hour 3 to 4 is when the tracers started kicking in - it's hard to describe, other than it's similar to when you swing a bright light in the dark and it leaves that short after image...only it happens even in bright areas.

the first couple weeks i tended to have purging out the other end too - don't be surprised if you get diarrhea, and have to make a few trips. as i took it daily, i wound up having to take a bit less to get the same benefits (i only need about 2 grams now as opposed to 3) and i only dose once a day now instead of twice. the purging was the first to go. after a few weeks i still got nausea during the first hour but that was it...and i usually didn't have to throw up. then i found out about sea-bands and tried that, and it did the trick - i still got slightly dizzy and a bit of vertigo, but almost no nausea whatsoever. i also no longer get tracers around hour 3-4. fun as tracers can be, they usually come with intense vertigo so suddenly they're not as fun as you'd like. XD don't be surprised when you first start dosing rue, if your coordination is completely shot. you might find yourself stumbling around like your drunk, but it's really your sense of position getting messed up.

i found this out to my woe the first (and last!) time i tried taking rue by itself as a trip... 6 grams. stumbling around like crazy, hurling out both ends, and even moving your eyes is enough to create an intense sense of vertigo, like being on one of those giant gyroscopes NASA uses. never saw any visuals other than strong tracers, which makes getting to the bathroom even more difficult. it was to the point that my entire body was leaving a slight trail behind it that faded after half a second.

seriously, get the dosing right for you, and use sea-bands or ginger or some other nausea combatant. or do an extract, i hear that it's less difficult than ground up seeds like i use.

for the actual dosing, i grind em up in a coffee grinder till finely powdered, and use a capsule machine. BE WARNED. some rue dust will remain on the capsules. even that tiny amount can make them taste godsawfully bitter and difficult to swallow. try and rub the capsules off with your shirt or something to help get any powder residue off, and to make swallowing easy, use soda or something sweet/carbonated to down them and mask any residue remaining. this also helps counter the next issue, which is...rue burps. usually 15 minutes in or so, i always get the need to burp a couple times... and it tastes like rue. its horrible. if you need to burp, make sure you expel that burp out and blow out the air in your lungs after, so you don't taste it. XD a light snack or soda will help mask the taste of the burp a bit too.

for the seeds themselves, a lot of online vendors sell them - just use the search engine for syrian rue seeds or its latin name (Peganum Harmala) and you'll find plenty. i got mine off a shroomery sponsor site personally - 30 bucks for a lb. this should last you a good while at a few grams a day.

i've only had a couple experiences with rue and shrooms myself - i discovered to my woe that powdered shrooms and powdered rue can be a particularly painful hit on the stomach. both times i tried this i threw up the shrooms soon after. ;; it worked much better as rue capsules and tea a half hour to hour later - i still threw up one of the times but tea is absorbed much faster and i still tripped quite well that time. both times were extremely enjoyable after the purge.

now that i've gotten the nasty stuff out of the way, the good - i take it myself because i discovered the first time i tried it on its own, that my back wasn't constantly hurting like hell, like it normally did. in fact, it felt much better than i could remember it feeling. since i despise pain, i started taking it daily to counter the pain. it definitely helped me cut down on the amount of tylenol and aspirin i was taking - often 3-4 doses a day down to 1-3 doses every couple days, and only because i was trying to kill a migraine. i've noticed that the muscles in my back were much more relaxed than before - i suspect i was constantly tensing them and that was causing the issue.

obviously it also boosts your mood, being an MAOI. i noticed i was a bit more energetic and more talkative at work. though i'm not sure how much is the rue boosting my mood and how much of it is just me not being in pain and being more cheerful because of that. :rofl:

it also seems to enhance my sense of color slightly - greens are a bit richer green, reds are a more noticable red color, etc. music also sounds a bit faster in tempo, and not in a bad way. both of these get enhanced drastically when taking with shrooms. colors become stunning, and music sounds even faster...yet the songs also seem to last longer, and the subtle parts of the music are enhanced. it's hard to describe other than it's very immersive and wonderful.

i found my mood was boosted dramatically when taking both rue and shrooms together, and that effect lasted during the afterglow as well as a bit the next day.

i've taken caffeine, chocolate, jerky, and other "forbidden foods" on the SSRI list, and never had any issues i noticed. MAOI's are much safer, foodwise. just beware drug interactions - there's certain medications you don't want to mix with rue, upon pain of death. stick to the SSRI "do not take" medicine list. tylenol and aspirin are fine though.

it's a wonderful plant and medicine, overall. just wish it didn't taste and smell like coffee from hell. :puke:

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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: Psion]
    #25744643 -

Just extract the pulverized/powdered seeds with 190 proof grain alcohol, strain/filter repeat until it's mostly clear and scrape up the results into capsules. No nausea.


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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #25744800 -

Damn, isn't that much per day excessive?
Glad you are having fun, but be careful :lol:

As for the SSRI food list, I don't know.

I'd say that maybe you have developed tolerance and monoamine oxidase are being produced more than usual to balance the MAOI intake.

I really recommend you to have a break since you may be wasting the rue and worse, damaging yourself


--------------------
Looking for shrooms

ATTENTION
My Contributions on IDs are to be followed by your own research, as I'm not even close to being a mushroom expert, I'm here to learn too.

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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: EntheogenicSerpent] * 1
    #25744820 -

o.O 3 grams? excessive? that's basically the amount for full MAO inhibition, for the ground up seeds. obviously the dosings a lot lower if youre using an extraction, since the seeds generally contain a couple % by weight of harmaline/harmine.

and syrian rue doesn't have a tolerance as far as i know - just reverse tolerance. in other words, you need to take less to get the same effect, and the negative side effects go down over time for some reason. (maybe the liver adapts by producing enzymes that break the nasty junk chems down faster?) not only that, the mood boosting effects and the like actually linger when you take it over a long period of time. for instance, even if i skip a day i still get much of the same mood boosting and pain reducing benefits.

honestly can't say i've seen any signs of potential damage, other than to my taste buds whenever i get a taste of that rue. q_q id imagine the lowered stress and pain i experience is probably leading to health benefits, if anything.

and when you got an entire lb of the stuff, 3 grams a day isn't much, lol. thats almost enough for 5 months dosing. XD

Edited by Psion (01/15/19 01:20 AM)

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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: Psion]
    #25745523 -

Yeah taking Rue/Harmalas daily/near daily/regularly has no downsides as far as i could tell. They have no tolerance, in fact a reverse tolerance, they don't cause any damage or health issues and they don't cause MAO-A to upregulate or anything. I took Rue and Mimosa/Acacia daily/near daily for 4 years, and then took Rue/Harmalas daily for 8 months straight, all at heavy dosages of Rue/Harmalas too. There's nothing wrong with consuming this stuff regularly, in fact, the more regularly this stuff is consumed, the better off you are, they've even done studies on regular long term Ayahuasca consumption and found nothing but positives.


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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: Sabnock]
    #25745533 -

And yeah, there's absolutely no food interactions with Rue/Harmalas/Caapi or Moclobemide (reversible MAO-A inhibition). Only need to look out for drug to drug reactions, specifically things that would interact badly with the MAO-A inhibition, or that would end up being potentiated by the MAO-A inhibition or the CYP1A2 and CYP2D6 inhibition.


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Re: syrian rue and vitamin C/E? [Re: Sabnock]
    #25745574 -

Cool to know


--------------------
Looking for shrooms

ATTENTION
My Contributions on IDs are to be followed by your own research, as I'm not even close to being a mushroom expert, I'm here to learn too.

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