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why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer
    #25741220 -

I know I've seen where your not supposed to do more than 3 gens of gtg transfer.  Does the 4th gen not fruit or do the mushrooms lack potency?  I'm doing of version of gtg with BRF and was going to try 4th gen anyway, was wondering what issues I should look for with them.  Thanks for any info people have.

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: RichardRahl]
    #25741332 -

You can do as many as you want as long as you can keep it clean


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Never give up, never surrender.

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Failboat]
    #25741342 -

Lately, I've been doing 4, with no loss of vigor or potency. I do 1qt to 8 per transfer, starting to experiment with 5.


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Wake now, discover that you are the song that morning brings, but the heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own"

Edited by Tstone (01/13/19 06:35 AM)

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Tstone] * 1
    #25741491 -

Since when? You can g2g dozens of times


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25741500 -

bodhisatta said:
Since when? You can g2g dozens of times


Wait what. . .
OK so as long as it is clean ?
And that whole odd fruiting is a myth?
Oh fuck I'm GTG my jars a extra time:lol:(not really I calculate everything on 3 g2gs then production blocks/logs/tubs)


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Nothing breads nothing

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Geinstein]
    #25741502 -

I mean doing 15 g2gs in the span of three months is far better than than doing 4 but doing 1g2g every 3 months and taking a year to do 4


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25741593 -

Bit confused now. Doesn't continued g2g eventually lead to senescence?

I know a lot of the commercial edible growers try not to go beyond 3 generations before going back to the master or g1.

I've always read they will continue to produce but mycelium loses its vigor and has potential to produce mutated fruits.

I'm a total newb though and just vomiting what i've read so correct me if im wrong.

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: seussiii]
    #25741606 -

Senescence is something most of won't even be able to juggle a culture long enough to run into.

I think most of that info stems from contaminants and people getting dirty after so many g2gs. Ive been to a couple farms that only order a master culture every couple years and keep it going all that time between

A lot of edible farms are fucking jokes. And a few have their shit together. One mushroom farm I visited didn't do g2g at all they bought all their spawn. They said a lab is too complicated and risky. They went out of business after a year.


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25741965 -

Awesome.  Thanks for the info.

I didn't understand the your post before last about doing 1 gtg every 3 months. 

I take 1 jar of every gen and slice it up in a SAB to make my next gen of jars.  My pressure cooker holds 14 1/2 pint jars so I do 1 to 14.  Any of the 14 that I screw up and contaminate get tossed.  Doesn't happen often but every one makes mistakes.  My jars fully colonize in 14 to 21 days.  I don't think they would be viable after 3 months.  I"m doing brf not oats right now, do the 1 qt oat jars stay viable longer?  I'll switch eventually, but I have all these 1/2 pint jars and flour and vermiculite still and this is working for me.

Used my 2nd gen to make some shoe boxes using your tek.  They look good so far.  Looking forward to see the results.

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25741979 -

bodhisatta said:
Senescence is something most of won't even be able to juggle a culture long enough to run into.

I think most of that info stems from contaminants and people getting dirty after so many g2gs. Ive been to a couple farms that only order a master culture every couple years and keep it going all that time between

A lot of edible farms are fucking jokes. And a few have their shit together. One mushroom farm I visited didn't do g2g at all they bought all their spawn. They said a lab is too complicated and risky. They went out of business after a year.


I wander way . . .:facepalm3::laugh2:
I have to say spawn here by me(converting into dollar) is 10$ per 2kg bag when you buy 10 bags. . .
This is G2 spawn and " apparently should go straight to production. . .
No fucken way, I admit I thought about asking professional spawn makers to supply but then I was like no that's not profitability
Any case what I wanted to say is farms that are doing that will not be able to make enough money to hire people, and if you can't get to that point your going to fail.


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Nothing breads nothing

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: RichardRahl]
    #25741988 -

RichardRahl said:
Awesome.  Thanks for the info.

I didn't understand the your post before last about doing 1 gtg every 3 months. 

I take 1 jar of every gen and slice it up in a SAB to make my next gen of jars.  My pressure cooker holds 14 1/2 pint jars so I do 1 to 14.  Any of the 14 that I screw up and contaminate get tossed.  Doesn't happen often but every one makes mistakes.  My jars fully colonize in 14 to 21 days.  I don't think they would be viable after 3 months.  I"m doing brf not oats right now, do the 1 qt oat jars stay viable longer?  I'll switch eventually, but I have all these 1/2 pint jars and flour and vermiculite still and this is working for me.

Used my 2nd gen to make some shoe boxes using your tek.  They look good so far.  Looking forward to see the results.


Work out that 30% will contam even if your success rate is 90% the extra spawn will allows you to grow much faster

You should always make more cultures and spawn then you'll need even with the 30% contam thing added

Like say you need 7 jars so you make 10 jars(+3) and then x1.5 it and make 15 jars


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Nothing breads nothing

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Geinstein]
    #25742005 -

So a question that I've had about keeping the vigor of a strain.  Once you have reached a higher amount of GtG transfers let's just say we did 3
generation and we wanted to start all over again because we wanted to keep fruiting this particular strain.  Would we just go from grain to agar to help it re-gain it's vigor? Then move go from agar to grain and we have a G1 jar???

Sorry might be a super simple answer to this but I'm learning and trying to understand the process of starting over.  I don't believe we have to start from spores again because that would have different genetics right?  How do we keep the same genetics going? 

Edited by Funguyadventures (01/13/19 01:07 PM)

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Funguyadventures]
    #25742024 -

No you go back to your master culture that was in storage


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25742089 -

If you have 1 master jar, you can make 6-10 sub master jars, then run each sub master 3-4 times, then pull another sub master from the fridge, run that a couple of g2g, so you could have 10 sub masters, do 4 G2G transfers from ea, for me that would be 40 monos, from the original culture.

Could even expand it farther for 60-80 tubs or more. I don't do shoeboxes, but I guess that would be around 280 at 1 qt ea.


--------------------
Wake now, discover that you are the song that morning brings, but the heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own"

Edited by Tstone (01/13/19 02:14 PM)

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Tstone]
    #25742202 -

I wouldn't worry about it at all. G2G as many times as you need for your intended project.

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25742283 -

Ok so my thinking at this point was to do long term storage in some slants.  Do I just continue picking from this same culture whenever I want to start new? Kind of leg it grow when I need some and ultimately if it's getting small use some more agar or throw in another slant?

Is that right? And thanks for the help

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: medical]
    #25742292 -

So part of my project is keeping strains alive that I actively want and use.  Figure that's the best way I want to learn this.  Plus I'm working within a grant to identify different species of wild mushrooms Nationwide.

So being able to possible save some strains for later 3-5 or 10 years down the road would be nice if I find use for them.  Some will go away with time but some I will want to keep which is why I ask for the best process.

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Funguyadventures]
    #25742308 -

Pull from slant > grow out on agar insuring viability/cleanliness > inoculate new slant and new grain master.

Mitigates risk of losing your master slant if you accidentally contaminate it.

If keeping them viable long term is your main goal, pull from your slant every 3-6 months and make a couple agar dishes and a new slant. Also be REALLY REALLY clean :wink:

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: medical]
    #25742312 -

For 5-10 year storage, make spore prints, I think is your only option.


--------------------
Wake now, discover that you are the song that morning brings, but the heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own"

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Tstone]
    #25742322 -

Tstone said:
For 5-10 year storage, make spore prints, I think is your only option.


Can someone back this up? There is no way I'd absolutely trust a spore print to be viable even a year later.

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: medical]
    #25742340 -

I agree but won't spores be a totally different set of genetics?

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Funguyadventures]
    #25742350 -

Not only will they last, but you don't have to worry  about agar drying out, constantly doing transfers. May come a point in the future where you are just unable to have living cultures, or a PC, or your fridge dies, power goes out, whatever the reason, prints are they way.

Yes, you would have to start from scratch isolating, cloning etc, however, you have the strain, like your original work. Some one here, just germinated spores that we're 15 some years old, and he mentioned he wasn't over anal about taking care of them, think he found them in box on his basement or perhaps even his attic. The spores will contain the same gentic pool.

Edited by Tstone (01/13/19 05:14 PM)

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Tstone]
    #25742357 -

Well damn. I would say that the best way is to diversify, grow out and collect new prints annually in addition to keeping cultures.

Now, I have a few prints from 2011 I should dig up...

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: medical]
    #25742364 -

Prints last years and years. So do spore syringes. 5+ years is no issue for spores.

There's edible cultures of shiitake and oysters that have been around more than a few decades. Cultures can last indefinitely with good storage.


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: medical]
    #25742365 -

With older spores, they should be hydrated in  sterilized water, like in a syringe, for better germination outcomes, prior to using.


--------------------
Wake now, discover that you are the song that morning brings, but the heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own"

Edited by Tstone (01/13/19 05:23 PM)

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Tstone]
    #25742434 -

Technically if something happened to your master and any backups you could recreate a master if you cloned in agar from tissue pulled from a mushroom, correct?

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: seussiii]
    #25742473 -

Sure, however even clones have hundreds of genetics in them, so when you take clone tissue, you aren't guaranteed to get an exact match as the donor, it just increases the likelihood of similar genetics.

Unfortunately , cloning shrooms aren't as exact as Cloning plants. If your on  your 8th G2G transfer, and clone tissue, your tissue sample is the same age as the the original master jar. When clones are done, most tend to take samples from the first tub / grow made from the master, keeping the mycelium as young as possible, in order to get the most future use from it( regarding health,vigor etc..)

Someone recently mentioned that the clone tissue sample he took, produced small fruits, instead of the large ones like the donor, and cut his yield by 1/2.


--------------------
Wake now, discover that you are the song that morning brings, but the heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own"

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25742492 -

bodhisatta said:
Senescence is something most of won't even be able to juggle a culture long enough to run into.

I think most of that info stems from contaminants and people getting dirty after so many g2gs. Ive been to a couple farms that only order a master culture every couple years and keep it going all that time between

A lot of edible farms are fucking jokes. And a few have their shit together. One mushroom farm I visited didn't do g2g at all they bought all their spawn. They said a lab is too complicated and risky. They went out of business after a year.


:takingnotes:

This is interesting as I was also always under the impression that you did not want to push g2g past 2-3 generations, but then again, so much info has changed since I began cultivation that this was just another lingering detail I had stored in my head with no personal proof.


--------------------
My cultivation guide.  How anyone can grow mushrooms. 

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: Tstone]
    #25742509 -

Tstone said:
Sure, however even clones have hundreds of genetics in them, so when you take clone tissue, you aren't guaranteed to get an exact match as the donor, it just increases the likelihood of similar genetics.

Unfortunately , cloning shrooms aren't as exact as Cloning plants. If your on  your 8th G2G transfer, and clone tissue, your tissue sample is the same age as the the original master jar. When clones are done, most tend to take samples from the first tub / grow made from the master, keeping the mycelium as young as possible, in order to get the most future use from it( regarding health,vigor etc..)

Someone recently mentioned that the clone tissue sample he took, produced small fruits, instead of the large ones like the donor, and cut his yield by 1/2.



Ahh good stuff. Yea that makes sense. Sounds like the process of developing cold/hot hardy varieties of gourmet mushrooms would be a pita.

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Re: why stop at 3rd generation in gtg transfer [Re: seussiii]
    #25742671 -

Do slants
Some people use LC for for long term storage
On a unrelated subject some people drink cat urine and worships the sun god

Don't do LC for long term storage do it the right way, slants


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Nothing breads nothing

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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