Home | Community | Message Board


Shroom Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Edibles   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Amazon Agar, Coir, Wild Bird Seed

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
My first clone is shit. Why?
    #25733849 - 01/09/19 02:27 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Hey guys! Been growing since summer last year and have had enormous success I have so many mushrooms I don't know what to do with them all!!! But I thought I'd give cloning a go.

So I picked an enormous cubenis from multispore that weighed around 70g fresh and took a clone and made a liquid culture from it using a mix of honey/water/brewers yeast/LME and it grew out beautifully.

I made two monotubs from it and grew them in pretty much identical conditions as the parent, and with the same substrate.

However they've come out like a third of the size of the parent and the crop size has been very small. Not even half an ounce when they're eventually dried.

Can anybody please explain why this may be and go into the science with me?

Best hobby ever I'm so thirsty to know more and more!

Thanks.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSubfinder
Wildlife enthusiast
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/18
Posts: 1,023
Loc: Pennsylvania
Last seen: 2 days, 3 hours
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25733869 - 01/09/19 02:34 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

There are probably many factors, but this is the main one...your clone is still essentially multi-spore. Lot's of genetic variation yet. Keep isolating, you'll get there.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Subfinder]
    #25733882 - 01/09/19 02:40 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Subfinder said:
There are probably many factors, but this is the main one...your clone is still essentially multi-spore. Lot's of genetic variation yet. Keep isolating, you'll get there.




Thank you for your response. I thought this was the case as I read something along those lines before. But would you mind explaining to me how a clone of a mushroom still contains so much genetic variation when you would expect them to be genetically identical to the parent, and for the same phenotypic traits to be expressed (a large mushroom).

Not even one of the mushrooms came out large like the parent. I don't understand. There are no mushrooms there that I would want to isolate.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 days, 2 hours
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25733967 - 01/09/19 03:34 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Environmental conditions.

Even β€œidentical twins” aren’t actually identical.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Ep1429]
    #25734059 - 01/09/19 04:36 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

I know it's impossible to replicate the exact environmental conditions...but I used the same amount of WBS as the parent, same amount of coir/horse shit and the temperature in my room stays relatively constant.

Why is there still genetic variation? Would something as small as minor changes in temperature affect the expression of specific genes? I'd expect at least SOME large mushrooms but none at all.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePiaseski
Day Tripper
Registered: 11/09/15
Posts: 389
Last seen: 5 months, 4 days
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25734070 - 01/09/19 04:41 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

It isn't nessecarily genetic, could be a hidden contamination.

I've never really had clones underperform without there being some issue with the grow itself.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCaps McGeeS
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,356
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25734184 - 01/09/19 05:49 PM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MrCraggles said:

Why is there still genetic variation?



Bc you have a clone culture, not an isolate... it's possible you transferred bad genetics, so you still have the original clone tissue plate? Clones will still likely contain multiple strains performing as one culture (monoculture) and IME, the original clone culture outperforms 11 of 12 isolates derived from them


--------------------
πŸ„πŸ’šπŸ˜Ž

Ask Caps! (My Q&A Thread)
Caps' Comprehensive Cultivation Tek List


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25735166 - 01/10/19 05:37 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
Quote:

MrCraggles said:

Why is there still genetic variation?



Bc you have a clone culture, not an isolate... it's possible you transferred bad genetics, so you still have the original clone tissue plate? Clones will still likely contain multiple strains performing as one culture (monoculture) and IME, the original clone culture outperforms 11 of 12 isolates derived from them




Oh wow that is so interesting. I had no idea that multiple strains could be responsible for the growth of a single mushroom? Is that what you're saying? So I've taken a clone from the mushroom but picked out the multiple strains that have come together as a monoculture to create that mushroom and would need to take it to agar to get isolates.

I'm new to this side of things and still wrapping my head around it all. Thanks.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25735168 - 01/10/19 05:40 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

So when you take a clone you only increase the chances of a certain phenotype being reproduced but there's no guarantee, because one of the strains within that mushroom holds the genetics preferable to producing a large mushroom...but you need to filter out that strain by taking it to agar and taking isolates...growing them out and finding out which strain it is.

This hobby is just so cool.

Is there any way of getting a clue as to which isolate would produce the best mushrooms...just a clue or is it necessary to continue to grow out each isolate to figure things out? I've read to look out for the best rhizomorphic growth but is this accurate?

Thanks.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Edited by MrCraggles (01/10/19 05:49 AM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCaps McGeeS
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,356
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25735374 - 01/10/19 08:58 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

You've got it... an MS fruit contains many strains working together as one monoculture... run the clone, pick a fruit with desirable qualities and clone again


--------------------
πŸ„πŸ’šπŸ˜Ž

Ask Caps! (My Q&A Thread)
Caps' Comprehensive Cultivation Tek List


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblebodhisattaM
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 60,303
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25735418 - 01/10/19 09:35 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

You cant really worry about your clones performance until you get reliable good flushes with MS. Once you nail down being able to reliably grow then you can compare clones performance. If your bad performance was because you just do/get bad grows now and then maybe your genetics are great but you just didn't maximize them


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread
Buy Bod a beer:
BTC: 1G7roCpYmNp4VqnKySQeBkaFTc7JMzKLpL
ETH: 0x2091cE981af8129986C50AC0818e1aCA76076768
DOGE: DQNyGtUNHwYUrGECag1VRmMcf6QVeTY4V1


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25735483 - 01/10/19 10:14 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
You cant really worry about your clones performance until you get reliable good flushes with MS. Once you nail down being able to reliably grow then you can compare clones performance. If your bad performance was because you just do/get bad grows now and then maybe your genetics are great but you just didn't maximize them




My grows are always excellent. Well at least I think they are. Last one canopied from multispore. But usually I end up with about 5-6 ounces per monotub. I've come out with less but most produce about that much. That's good isn't it? Or isn't it? Anyway they always come out looking healthy and good. Apart from my last penis envy. I allowed too much FAE and sprayed too much and it fucked the surface. But that was an anomaly. My grows always seem good.

Definitely time to move this hobby along!


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25735484 - 01/10/19 10:15 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
You've got it... an MS fruit contains many strains working together as one monoculture... run the clone, pick a fruit with desirable qualities and clone again




Thanks for your help man!


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25742929 - 01/14/19 05:37 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
You've got it... an MS fruit contains many strains working together as one monoculture... run the clone, pick a fruit with desirable qualities and clone again




Can I actually clone from a clone? I read something about this not being good? I've found a fruit I like am I supposed to let this one sporulate, grow from spores and then clone from that? Or is it actually just OK to clone from a clone?

Thanks.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCaps McGeeS
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,356
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25743043 - 01/14/19 07:57 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Starting from spore is starting over... I wouldn't suggest cloning clones as a method, rather slant the original clone culture for cold storage and expand from it... but a couple rounds of cloned clones won't detriment much


--------------------
πŸ„πŸ’šπŸ˜Ž

Ask Caps! (My Q&A Thread)
Caps' Comprehensive Cultivation Tek List


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25743053 - 01/14/19 08:15 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
Starting from spore is starting over... I wouldn't suggest cloning clones as a method, rather slant the original clone culture for cold storage and expand from it... but a couple rounds of cloned clones won't detriment much




I don't understand sorry man. How am I to filter out the genetics I want if I'm not supposed to clone from clones and if using spores from my desired fruit is the same as starting over?


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCaps McGeeS
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,356
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles] * 1
    #25743071 - 01/14/19 08:33 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Work from one culture... store it in the fridge... take it out, take a transfer, let it grow,  transfer to several other plates, use those for grain... leave your cold storage out for 24-48 hours to recover, and do it all over again... a slant can be used for a couple years if it's kept clean and allowed to recover each time... you can print fruit with desirable traits and clone from it a fruit with those traits... after a number of cycles, MS will start displaying the desirable traits


--------------------
πŸ„πŸ’šπŸ˜Ž

Ask Caps! (My Q&A Thread)
Caps' Comprehensive Cultivation Tek List


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMrCraggles
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 685
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25743079 - 01/14/19 08:42 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you very much. You've always been so helpful since I started growing last year. Very much appreciated.


--------------------
Throw down your umbilical noose so I can climb right back


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCaps McGeeS
Grandaddy Smurfshack
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,356
Loc: ally known as ... Flag
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: MrCraggles]
    #25743124 - 01/14/19 09:36 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah man,  it's what I'm here for


--------------------
πŸ„πŸ’šπŸ˜Ž

Ask Caps! (My Q&A Thread)
Caps' Comprehensive Cultivation Tek List


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblerickyswamps
Bad Apple
I'm a teapot


Registered: 11/08/18
Posts: 1,189
Re: My first clone is shit. Why? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25743207 - 01/14/19 10:43 AM (2 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Caps McGee said:
Yeah man,  it's what I'm here for




:sunspots:

Fan of the positivity.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Edibles   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Amazon Agar, Coir, Wild Bird Seed

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* transferring mycelium wikedanjel 3,402 13 01/10/03 05:54 AM
by debianlinux
* grain transfers and spore printing esin 1,039 1 05/22/02 08:12 AM
by angryshroom
* cloning..... over and over and over again Zildjian 1,498 16 11/07/02 03:05 PM
by george castanza
* Mushroom cloning?? dimitri211 3,322 3 05/23/01 09:49 PM
by Anno
* cloning...why won't it work for me? carbonhoots 1,099 9 02/15/02 01:47 AM
by Anno
* Cloning from a stem HarveyWalbanger 666 1 07/10/03 07:44 PM
by Lana
* G2G transfers too good to be true? SCIOpenEyedDream 3,606 9 08/29/04 12:16 AM
by scatmanrav
* So many Clones pizzle3k 418 4 10/03/04 05:42 PM
by pizzle3k

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, FooMan, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, stonesun, wildernessjunkie, cronicr, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
556 topic views. 37 members, 206 guests and 34 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.073 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 18 queries.