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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
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Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Diy granite countertops
    #25690055 - 12/19/18 05:51 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

I watched the few videos on YouTube on the subject, I probably should have shot a video and uploaded it there as I had to pull from all of them and also mine is more complicated than most I've seen with the undermount sink. It's been a bit of a tough job for a solo person but if you can find a second person for ten minutes once a day then you too can save upwards of 75% on a granite install.

Found surplus place. They sell pre fab granite 6' slabs with a bullnose on the front face (flat sides for easy butt joints) and the darker granite was around $220ea and the lighter colors were as low as $120 each. Lucky for me i need light, mine was $130.



Also I was turned on to this granite composite sink while I was there, it can be top mount or undermount so that gave me the drive home to picture how I would accomplish such a professional task on my first time and if it was a bad idea by the time I got home I could just cut a kindergardener looking square hole and still have a clean top mount look.


From there it's pretty straight forward really.. make sure the sink fits in my sink cabinet (I had to trim some supports), and measure your butt off to plot it on a template. I won't bore you with the specifics, this is 1 of the 2 hardest parts of the job. The sink must be plotted correctly where it will fit in the cabinet (it onnly has 1/2" of play left to right and 1/4" of play north to south when used as undermount the entire rectangular shape must all be inserted into cabinet not just sink bowls) ans also must rest flush against the wall, that's not a lot of slop to move the sink around during install to make up for a sloppy position.

Since I'm working alone with no help and also bc I only have an idea of what to do I need to do the extra work and double check more often and leave as wide margins as I can and work as safe as I can. A mistake costs $130. (Not bad really, keep in mind these are marketed as for coffee tables or bars or much simpler projects, if you're excited I recommend u get one and cut it and shape it and get the feel, they're cheap).

Granite care is first and foremost. They're stronger on end. I got 5 slabs, they're 25" wide with a bullnose, i should have a few half pieces xtra to make the female something nice and big when im finished. First step is stressful ride home 60miles with no breaks or chips



Then I ripped out the faux granite Formica counters and installed half inch rdx plywood. Just because I only shoe a pic or two here do not underestimate this step, it is everything. It's easy enough to measure and cut plywood but when mounted and checked with a level only the two edges were level... on most counters only the front face and back face have strips of wood for support (which is why I upgraded to solid surface for granite ) but the plywood won't lay flat and true, it dips like a u in the center, the majority of the area.

I almost went forward at that point, the level said level, let's go, but I had a feeling kinda like when I did my tile shower that something else besides level was important...


So I kept staring at it until it made sense and I looked under the level and saw the u shape, I saw how the entire middle was not touching and that meant it wouldn't touch the stiff granite either.

So I looked underneath and shimmed the middle in 2-3 spots per strip to bring the middle up to flush.


If this step was not done the granite would have been unsupported on 75% or so, too much downward pressure in the center of the unsupported area would cause excessive flex and snap the slab. I looked at prob all the videos on YouTube about diy granite counters (a whopping 7 maybe, of which 2 are good) only one addresses a plywood support and that one didn't say anything about any of this. But perhaps their cabinets werent so far out of level, look at how much the front face had to be shimmed up to be level, and it gradually changes from one side to the next. Everything on this old house is like legendary difficulty.

Anyway that highly important step of getti g level, true supports took way longer than I expected prob a day and a half. Very mentally taxing moving two or three rows of shims all independently to move a single board where u need it.

Next, make a quality cardboard template instead of crap paper one they five u. You don't want it to give out halfway thru esp when wet cutting.


By now I've made about 100 measurements to know what will be where, exactly, when the granite is bumped against the wall. Lay down some foil duct tape (real duct tape,not duck tape) and plot your template with centerlines or other reference points and transfer your line onto the tape.

If you saw my tile shower and sliding door build a few weeks back then u saw the diamond hole saw and jig kit. Used that to punch out holes on the contours. Connected the dots with a circular saw like an old highlights magazine. (Using a $20 7" diamond blade and a trickling garden hose)




All the while I'm shifting around the 2x4x8s underneath to both support the granite but also allow a saw cut. On the last cut I positioned it to allow cut and support the cutout scrap so I can recycle it into something cool.



First time blues, focusing on multitasking with the hose I nicked two corners when plunge cutting with the saw... oh how I was distraught, I thought it was new slab time. But I was able to turn this mistake


Into this matching beauty, look at how the contours match!



Rigged up a jig for my lonely ass to pull this heavy sink into position and mark where I need to sand and all that..



Just finished wet sanding all the faces from 50grit up to 3000grit. The cuts I made are now as shiny and brilliant as the top face from the factory. Also punched out the holes for faucet and soap dispenser.

My help no showed so instead of carrying this slab inside and mounting it and the sink tonight I made this write up.

$20 Amazon diamond polishing kit. Comes with a Velcro arbor and 50grit to 3000grit disks. Has to be spun at 5000rpm or below tho and be used wet that was a brainteaser for me for a minute. Also used a 1" diameter round 36grit stone with a 5/8" arbor. I just got a seam setter, epoxy and pigment for setting all the seams. I fully expect a professional outcome.

If you do a simple top mount sink (drop in) and you've done a lot of wood working or are otherwise familiar with tools and measuring you should have zero issue getting this done with $50 worth of disks and what not you didn't have before.

Also a badass material to work with for recessed alcoves, coffee tables, high end gifts, etc. J have a dozen ideas for my scrap, my brother does fantasy figurines and I have excess circular plugs of granite they can be glued to. Or they go in freezer and in a rocks glass. Or make stuff



Will update in a week Or so. This was the hard one, once I have help to dry fit it, then adhesive it and mount the sink i can move on to making the other five pieces or so and they should go rapid fire.

Any questions ask, really if u can install Formica countertops (carpentry, get things square) it's only learning how to handle cut and shape granite that is between u and this. You can do this project.


Edited by Humble Newcomer (12/26/18 10:50 PM)


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diy granite countertops [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25691233 - 12/20/18 10:06 AM (5 years, 1 month ago)

It fits! It fits! I'm so excited I couldn't wait to update this I'm yelling the whole world.



So during the dry fit I had the sink in the cabinet before placing the granite down. Centered granite. Picked up sink thru drain holes and picked up to eyeball undermount mounting area. Made adjustments left and right sith granite slab. When satisfied take a sharpie and make line on plywood showing ends of slab. Lift up and have helper apply generous construction adhesive and lower back into place. Mount up sink for extra weight pulling granite down into adhesive before it cures.



There u can see the edge of plywood and where I made the straight mark as reference, also you can see earlier drawings of where cabinet support strips are, so after I out adhesive on the plywood I could finish nail the plywood in all supports from top side.


This is where I stopped to clean the top face of the sink of debris, and then wiped it and underside of granite with mineral spirits to prepare for sealing.



I can't believe it fits! Its not perfext, i was a hair off on measurement apparently bc I can't rotate the sink in the way I want to make the reveal perfect all around, in fact the top right corner of one bowl is ugly to me - it was the second saw blade nick I accidentally made and attempted to hide, it's very unfortunate the problem is compounded now by it being where I measured wrong and have excess reveal. Oh well. Once a faucet and soap dispenser and dishes are in there, once life happens, no one will notice the female assures me



She also says the lip of the sink is sharp so I'll have to bevel in a 45 with the 3000grit around the sink lip

Also just saw some sweeeet photos of some concrete countertops a friend on here has made, I hope he makes a post showing us how to have such awesome results as him!! *cough* *wheeze*


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OfflineSpindlymass
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Re: Diy granite countertops [Re: Humble Newcomer] * 1
    #25692723 - 12/20/18 10:15 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Beautiful work ! Feels good learning and saving that cash!

Thanks for the shout out brother :smile:

I don't much feel like writing a big how-to on the subject, but I have had some success and fun with concrete counters. Here is the sink I made:


just made with bagged cement (quickcrete 6000psi)

Instead of a how-to I would highly recommend this book on concrete counter tops. It has everything you need to know. From start to finish.

and of course I would be happy to talk about and answer any questions.


Again, great job Humble :thumbsup:


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enough knowledge to get into trouble. Not nearly enough to get out again.


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diy granite countertops [Re: Spindlymass]
    #25704719 - 12/26/18 08:13 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Can you explain to us how the drain works? Is it a slit along the whole width at the bottom and has room to collect underneath?

How did you form the drain? Did you shaoe the sink when it was half dry and malleable or use a mold?


--------------------
How I made my mush GH


Edited by Humble Newcomer (12/26/18 08:46 PM)


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diy granite countertops [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25704742 - 12/26/18 08:29 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)



It came out pretty nice. I must say. Was even abke to make the sink fit better - still not earning my full approval but now i believe others wont have an issue. Between these two pictures im both proud of my first attempt and forever sold on undermount sinks. How gorgeous compared to the sandy brown block it would have ben topmounted. Honestly made several mistakes on every phase, even the epoxy I thought that would go way smoother since I have a lot of experience in the hard art of mixing two ingredients at a 1:1 ratio.... should have known better. Never tried being artsy and adding pigment and tryinf to speckle and mix the colors to make a seam hide. Two or three times I had multiple colored puddles of epoxy harden up on my cardboard artists pallet and have to remix a new dollup and color it to finish the seam. Wasted a ton of time and made a mess by laying out tape each time on the edges like the YouTube videos say, each seam I adjusted my technique a bit and incorporated what I learned by mistake on the last seam. Like most things by the time I finished I had a real refined technique. The missus approves, greatly.


Used a large sheetrock t square as a fence for my circular saw and somehow ran a garden hose at the same time. Grinded in a tighter fit on some of the joints with a masonry wheel. Lot of mistakes. Because I'm a virgin it's back to what I said before about doing extra work to ensure bigger margins of error - so on the Two longer slabs that stab into the sink row, I have to cut the ear off that slab, and want it to match perfectly with another ear I notch into the mating piece (where I remove the bullnose off half the front). That's highly variable, with my tools and methods. So rather than designing a factory edge at the end where the stove or fridge is (thus having to dial in a perfect length and angle on the mating side with no margin of error) i chose to measure and lop the majority of excess off the end, including the ever sacred factory edge, leabing five inches or so extra on end. Then on other end make a first attempt angle by cutting off the ear. Dry fit. Grind. Gap is ugly? Chop a whole inch off that end and redo. These counters, like the 63yr old hardwood floors and archways will last another 60 years how cool is that. I want it to look good. And with little insurance policies like those thrown in i think I did a good job. Once I succeed in getting my notches to fit tight I simply cut the excess off the other end with a straightedge fence and after five minutes of multi step polishing my ending face (where typically you'd want factory edge) appeared just as smooth and shiny as factory though not nearly as soft on your hands on the bevel but these are blocked by appliances anyway.

Two mistakes I couldn't hide and would haunt me if I were to stay at this house. But I'm assured it looks amazing and no one looks that close and everyone will love it and also if it bothers me (which it does) to just do better on the next house which distracts me and makes me happy. She's a good woman.

Love this tool. Decided I could do a better faster job with two so I will def buy a second one next time. I learned by the end it's best to install it halfway thru it's travel so u can easily move the whole slab away from the butt joint to slather epoxy on both faces and then effortlessly crank the whole slab back into position super tight. Since there's construction adhesive underneath the whole slab floats like a dream with a twist of two fingers. Able to adjust elevation and lippage. Very nice. Certain situations u def wouldn't need one. A whole kitchen yes u want two in fact, the pro vacuum units all come with two.



Edited by Humble Newcomer (12/26/18 11:45 PM)


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diy granite countertops [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25704875 - 12/26/18 09:49 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

5 prefab granite slabs @ 130 each =650 (with 3 huge slabs leftover yay!)
Instant install 29 epoxy and pigment packs $30
Plywood, shims, construction adhesive $30
Masonry wheel and polishing pads $30
Damo seam setter $130

So around $875 or so. In hindsight id prefer a second seam setter and $1000total.. Was quoted 2800 for pro granite install with top mount sink, at the time all I had heard of was time and time again of undermount sink falling out. I would estimate their price 3200-3500 for undermount sink because it's easy to slap markup on a premium upgrade like that, I had never heard of them and they are truly gorgeous compared to any drop in, even this one as sandy and unique as it is, it's so square and huge. What a different look that would be. And also, they wouldn't have to polish anything if I chose a drop in sink - u want your joints to be rough and porous so the epoxy bonds, so it's very possible a professional crew would not have to bevel and polish any edges with a drop in sink. Not true with undermount, and it's a focal point. Needs to be shined up identical to the top. Just a thought.

Estimated $2300savings conservatively. (3200-875)

The backsplash was even more expensive for some reason that I don't understand. They quoted 3200 for my backsplash whether I did granite or tile, and I could install granite for around 400 in materials or lay nice mosaics tiles for around 400 in materials or lay cheap subway tiles for around 250 in materials no joke... they charge more for the backsplash which is typically made from cheaper materials.. but i didnt question it just a month or two ago when I was calling around before I did all this and became educated. I've been thinking about becoming a contractor because I'm way better now than the two "professionals" i hired that went around for years taking jobs and talking the talk before imploding their careers and my bank account on this jobsite. But what i have trouble with the most is pricing. Is that fair pricing? Maybe. I don't know. Is it fair for me to go to someone's house and charge them 2500 for a backsplash that takes two days and costs me 300 in materials? That's basically an $1100/day payday. I mean that way outpays any side job I've had. Things to ponder, hmmm...


Edited by Humble Newcomer (12/26/18 10:06 PM)


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OfflineSpindlymass
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Re: Diy granite countertops [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25708802 - 12/28/18 10:37 PM (5 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Humble Newcomer said:
Can you explain to us how the drain works? Is it a slit along the whole width at the bottom and has room to collect underneath?

How did you form the drain? Did you shaoe the sink when it was half dry and malleable or use a mold?





The sink basin was formed with a mold. In fact, the entire sink and counter were poured into one mold.

For the drain, I took a length of 1.5" black ABS plumbing pipe, slightly longer than the drain, glued a cap to each end and a "T" in the centre. Then cut it in half on the table saw (leaving the "T" intact to attach the "p-trap" too).

I placed some bolts in the still wet concrete around the drain opening to attach the strapping to hold the drain in place while the silicone dried.

I hope that makes sense, I'm being lazy and stingy with photo space and don't want to take a picture :grin:


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InvisibleHumble Newcomer
Diddler de niños
I'm a teapot


Registered: 03/12/17
Posts: 1,483
Re: Diy granite countertops [Re: Spindlymass]
    #25732244 - 01/08/19 06:16 PM (5 years, 20 days ago)

No that makes sense. How neat!  I want to make one! I have plans for an outside kitchen and want to try concrete counters and sink, i may ask u some detailed wuestions. I'm being stingy with photo space as well, last two here.

Did the backsplash. The mosaic tile pieces I did were $4 each and the border pieces at bottom were $5 each. Did the whole backslash for probably $400, I can't believe i was this close to paying 3k just for a backsplash. Blows me away.






I'm addicted to diy now, confidence done leveled up


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OfflineSpindlymass
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Re: Diy granite countertops [Re: Humble Newcomer]
    #25732693 - 01/08/19 08:59 PM (5 years, 20 days ago)

:murray:

If you make a go at being a contractor you'll do well. There are so many shitty ones that people hold on tight to the good ones. You'll have enough work when word gets out you do a good job, when you say you will and you clean up nice.


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