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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: cenomyxa]
    #26490103 -

For the most part farmers are just doing what they know. I agree hard opposition just makes them double down. Usually the best way is to show them that organics are actually more profitable when done right. No farmer opposes saving money. Obviously a lot of trust has to be established first.

Then you have billionaires like the ones who own Pom juice and Cuties and Wonderful pistachios who want to control entire rivers and accuse any opposition of being communist.

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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Ran-D]
    #26490114 -

Organic farming is environmentally irresponsible.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #26490129 -

Being alive in the industrialized world is environmentally irresponsible

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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: ballsalsa]
    #26490140 -

Unfortunately, all of us were brought into this world without our consent.  As long as we're here, however, we should probably be as efficient as we can at producing food since so many of us are starving to death as we speak.

Just my two cents.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26490143 -

Stick to what you know, which is not agriculture.

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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Ran-D]
    #26490145 -

Stick to what you know, which is clearly ad hominem attacks.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26490163 -

People aren't starving because of lack of food. We throw away plenty. They are starving because of corruption.

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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26490164 -

Organics  notwithstanding, America is dogshit at efficiently producing food. We throw away close to half of it.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26490173 -

However true or false that may be, if we throw away half of a higher quantity, we still are left with more that isn't thrown away.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26490184 -

According to whom?

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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26490190 -

Enlil said:
However true or false that may be, if we throw away half of a higher quantity, we still are left with more that isn't thrown away.


Yeah but that really isn’t the sustainable long term solution, or we’d just keep on using leaded gasoline to mitigate our energy concerns.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Ran-D] * 1
    #26490193 -

Math.  I'll walk you through it:

If we produce 10 apples and throw away half, we're left with 5.  This can be represented mathematically as 10 x .5 = 5.

If we produce 20 apples and throw away half, we're left with 10.  20 x .5 = 10.

See...by producing more, we end up with more, even if we are throwing away half.  Math is cool.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #26490201 -

The Ecstatic said:
Yeah but that really isn’t the sustainable long term solution, or we’d just keep on using leaded gasoline to mitigate our energy concerns.


Nothing we have now is a sustainable long-term solution.  This is true unless/until make huge leaps in technology or reduce the population significantly.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26490205 -

Lol @ the rate at which big conventional agra corps smear organic farmers in the news, my google feed thinks I'm interested in organic food so it sends me like 5 hit pieces by all of these corporate news subsidies a day.

It's true - there are bad organic farmers, big organic farmers that over-apply toxic things, bad practices, inefficient ones... etc.

But what's also true, is that many organic farmers who are in it for the quality and purity of the food produce a vastly superior crop to anyone else in the country... furthermore, I'd wager all actually sustainable (permaculture) practicing farmers grow organically as well.

If you actually want to talk sustainability - it's not in spraying million-acre mono-crops of corn and soybeans with glyphosate and then crushing up and showering them with a 900 ton brick of fertilizer.


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¿Check out some art m8?


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26490208 -

I meant the crop production numbers that you entirely made up. Are we just assumingconventional agriculture doubles production? Pretty bold assumption.

The propaganda from big ag is clearly  strong. Not surprising considering these fertilizer companies got their start making bombs.

Even Justus von Liebig admitted that living soil was better in every way but ok.

Edited by Ran-D (02/17/20 04:23 PM)

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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: twighead] * 1
    #26490218 -

Look, if you prefer organic produce...buy it.  If you're in a position to be able to pay extra for food, good for you.  Unfortunately, a large portion of the planet isn't, and I am personally not okay with the idea of tailoring production to those who can afford to pay more for it.  When every mouth on the planet is fed, then we can talk about creating different tiers of quality so that the elite can eat better than the rest.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Ran-D]
    #26490221 -

Ran-D said:
I meant the crop production numbers that you entirely made up. Are we just assumingconventional agriculture doubles production? Pretty bold assumption.

Where did I say that?  Where did I even make up crop production numbers?  Can you quote me, because I think you might be confusing this with a completely different thread on another site.  I didn't give any numbers until AFTER you posted this:

Ran-D said:
According to whom?


And those numbers were to explain the math I was using to support what I believed was a pretty non-controversial point....namely, that 50% of a higher number is still a higher number.


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #26490232 -

O_o
o_0


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night

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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26490239 -

Enlil said:
Look, if you prefer organic produce...buy it.  If you're in a position to be able to pay extra for food, good for you.  Unfortunately, a large portion of the planet isn't, and I am personally not okay with the idea of tailoring production to those who can afford to pay more for it.  When every mouth on the planet is fed, then we can talk about creating different tiers of quality so that the elite can eat better than the rest.


It doesn't cost extra if you buy locally. I get produce 3/4ths the year cheaper than any conventional @ the store.

If you don't live somewhere that grows food - then paying extra should be expected.

It's not as if somehow our food excesses, which would occur no matter what growing practices we assumed (albeit with the rate @ which most conventional ag rapes soil - theirs is unsustainable) - are actually going to feed 'every mouth on the planet' - despite how much talk and money is put into shell charities by wordy billionaires.

Also - the main 2 crops for conventional ag - far and away - are soybeans and corn for livestock. Which is literally the most wasteful inefficient possible way to handle food production if we're actually talking about feeding everyone.


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¿Check out some art m8?


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Re: Sanders - Schmanders 2020 [Re: twighead]
    #26490244 -

I get it.  You're rich.  You live in a rich country.  You can afford to be picky.  I'm rich, too.  I just recognize that not everyone has the same options I do, and I'd like to see that problem addressed before we start talking about improving my standard of living.


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