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Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot?
    #2570204 -

Since its establishment in 1967, Canada's Medicare system has earned the envy of the international community. Many Canadians see free public health care as the hallmark of what Pierre Elliott Trudeau called "The Just Society"

I wish, from the bottom of my heart, that people would realize how a strong dose of socialism in a capitalist economy goes so far to better the condition of the people.

Medicare, aka public health insurance, means freedom. No more insurance tied to employment, no more "sorry, your policy doesn't cover you for this",etc. It's comprehensive and universal.


In Canada, you can smoke all you want, drink all you want, snowboard like a maniac, whatever, you're covered.

Canada has a healthier population than private insurance USA.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2570214 -

Communist plot.

We should let "charity" pay for healthcare not "theft" :rolleyes:

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2570269 -

Them insurance companies sure can be crooks sometimes.

Canada spends far less as a % of GDP on healthcare than the USA, yet fully covers everyone. It's a true success story of civilization in the 20th century.

Private insurance companies lobby constantly to destroy it.

People might not realize how much public health insurance is under attack in Canada. If we lose it, it will be illegal to get back again, thanks to NAFTA, which outlaws creating a government monopoly in any sector of the private marketplace. Only exisitng ones are aloud to continue.

This could, maybe, be the last days of public health insurance in Canada. Already the leader of the opposition is basically advocating tearing up the Canada Health Act, which outlaws most types of private health insurance. He is unlikely to win government, and there is a lot of support for medicare here, however, the unthinkable is becoming more and more thinkable a s time goes on.



--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

Edited by carbonhoots (04/17/04 03:39 AM)

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2570893 -

Quote:
carbonhoots said:
I wish, from the bottom of my heart, that people would realize how a strong dose of socialism in a capitalist economy goes so far to better the condition of the people.


Medicare in the U.S. is headed for bankruptcy. The unfunded socialist liabilities of medicare and social security (due to the ageing of the baby boomers) will require massive tax increases if spending is not curtailed, some estimates put the future burden as high as 80% on the average working American. How will such a high tax rate better the condition of the people?

Consider this:
"...projected future spending across all federal programs plus the amount of debt currently held by the public exceeds projected future revenue by $43.4 trillion in present value, as of 2003. That imbalance is over 11 times the $3.8 trillion debt held by the public that the government officially reports. $35.5 trillion of this $43.4 trillion imbalance stems from Medicare (Parts A and B) alone while Social Security accounts for another $7.2 trillion."

"This calculation allows us to determine how much money the government must come up with immediately in order to put fiscal policy on a sustainable course. Alternatively, the government must make cuts or increase revenue totaling more than $43.4 trillion in future years so that, when discounted to today, the sum of those cuts and extra revenue equals $43.4 trillion."

"... the government could, in theory, put the country on a sustainable course by raising the payroll tax on all uncapped earnings by 16.3 percentage points starting in 2004 and lasting forever. That would forever more than double the amount of taxes that are already being paid by employees to the Social Security and Medicare systems and the dollar-for-dollar matching paid by their employers. But even this calculation is conservative in that it assumes that taxes are raised on uncapped earnings, which is a larger tax base than used by Social Security. If capped earnings were taxed, an even larger tax rate would be needed."

"Waiting just four years (until 2008) to implement this type of tax hike would require a permanent tax increase of 17.4 percentage points to close an even larger imbalance of $51.5 trillion. The fiscal imbalance grows by about $1.5 trillion each year between 2004 and 2008 (Table 1). That number is about ten times the deficit that the government officially projects for 2004. As with government debt, the fiscal imbalance grows with interest if no reforms are taken."

"Such tax increases, of course, would probably put our economy into a tailspin."

"...shutting down half of the rest of government forever is not enough to put the U.S. fiscal policy on a sustainable course."

* taken from the testimony of Kent Smetters to the U.S. Congress. Submitted on March 3, 2003, BEFORE Bush raised Medicare entitlements with a bill signed on Dec. 8, 2003.

Quote:
In Canada, you can smoke all you want, drink all you want, snowboard like a maniac, whatever, you're covered.


So the costs of irresponsible behavior are subsidized...

Quote:
Canada has a healthier population than private insurance USA.


The U.S. also has a higher percentage of third world immigrants and probably the worst dietary habits and most sedentary lifestyles in the western world.

I pay only $208 a month for health insurance for a family of four. This is less than what many people spend on weed every month... it's not that much.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (04/17/04 01:32 PM)

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2571120 -

This could, maybe, be the last days of public health insurance in Canada. Already the leader of the opposition is basically advocating tearing up the Canada Health Act, which outlaws most types of private health insurance.

An excellent idea. Canada's socialized medicine system is broken, and has been for a long time. Evolving posted some figures on Medicare -- Canada's system will be bankrupted long before Medicare will be.

The quality of health care delivered to Canadians is already a national disgrace, and gets worse each year.

pinky


--------------------

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Phred]
    #2571399 -

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!


Socalism is the answer to all things!


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2571435 -

carbonhoots said:
In Canada, you can smoke all you want, drink all you want, snowboard like a maniac, whatever, you're covered.



So if I choose to take care of myself I still have to pay for those who don't? sounds like a great deal to me.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: z@z.com]
    #2571455 -

yep. when that fat, cola swilling, fast-food and wonderbread eating woman down the street needs meds for the high cholestorol and diabetes her choices brought on her, you and i will get to foot the bill.

when old bill's black lungs finally sprout a tumor from a lifetime of cigarettes, who will pay for his hospital bills before he dies? why the ever benevolent tax-payer of course...

:thumbdown:

of course, it would make sense if healthcare was provided... but everyone was required to eat healthy, excercise, and refrain from using drugs, then this wouldn't be a problem... yes... everyone would be healthier, and have their health taken care of by the government... why we could be the healthiest society on earth! everyone with a clean bill of health! think of that!

:wink:

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2571542 -

When one pays a private company for insurance, part of that payment is profit for the owners of that company. This means there is a large amount of money (from the fact that insurance is a very profitable business) which is not being used for health benefits. Of course all the advertising one sees is against public health insurance, the people who are rich now are the ones who stand to lose from public health care.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: MorningStar]
    #2571719 -

Hey, it's Lucifer.


Wassup lou!


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: MorningStar]
    #2571953 -

MorningStar said:
When one pays a private company for insurance, part of that payment is profit for the owners of that company. This means there is a large amount of money (from the fact that insurance is a very profitable business) which is not being used for health benefits...


So, all the politicians and bureaucrats don't skim anything off on government programs? Ever heard of the term 'pork barrel?' Government agencies are notoriously top heavy with bureaucracy and inefficient in their allocation of resources, this is what happens when you don't have to satisfy the consumer but are legally allowed to pick his pocket no matter how shoddy your product or service. Please tell us all how efficient the postal services is, tell us how good the military is at getting value for your tax dollars.

Do you know what is probably the single greatest expense for a doctor or hospital? Malpractice insurance - well, at least it is for the doctors I know. Do you know what would go a long way towards lowering or controlling health care costs? Tort reform, but don't hold your breath waiting for a political system controlled by lawyers to do anything meaningful about that.

How about a free market in medicine? Nope, the pharmaceutical companies (read: 'big campaign donors') and the FDA both want to say how things should be run.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2571993 -

yep. when that fat, cola swilling, fast-food and wonderbread eating woman down the street needs meds for the high cholestorol and diabetes her choices brought on her, you and i will get to foot the bill.

when old bill's black lungs finally sprout a tumor from a lifetime of cigarettes, who will pay for his hospital bills before he dies? why the ever benevolent tax-payer of course...

While there is some difference in costs between systems, those that live healthy lifestyles pay proportionally more for healthcare to subsidize the abusers either way.

This is the same with private auto insurance. Having never filed a claim in 30 years, my insurance is still gougingly high because of uninsured transients in Las Vegas. Yup, I am paying for the irresponsible ones.

Anyone want to move to another planet with me and start afresh?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Swami]
    #2572007 -

Quote:
Anyone want to move to another planet with me and start afresh?



Why?  2012 is just around the corner.  :nut:


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Swami]
    #2572012 -

that's true...

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Evolving]
    #2572425 -

As for your comment on malpratice insurance, I agree that it is a big scam. I think that all insurance should be public. I also never said the current government was the ideal place to enact that.
I urge all who are dissatisfied with the way things are, to, at the very least, spend some time thinking about what would be better.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Evolving]
    #2572648 -

What are you trying to prove with your figures?

That universal health coverage is just impossible for USA?

That it is inevitable that some people will be written up as YOYO MF? (your on your own mother fucker)

People have been coming up with these facts and figures to prove socialized health insurance will bankrupt the country for 40 years now. Those kinds of people are the same sort who say that CO2 emissions don't cause global warming. They are paid well to play Devil's advocate. Before Canada actually implemented the law, those people said newborn babies would be owned by the government if there was public health insurance. Fortunatly, back in reality, some people knew what was going on.

Why do some people think they need a middleman, who makes boatlaods of money, to provide them with health insurance? Why not cut out the middleman and spend those dollars on patients and technology?

Do you and your family have fully comprehensive coverage for your 208 per month? Do you have any restrictions? Can you see a doctor out of state no problem? All that? How about a deductible?

I like my health insurance written into law rather than the fine print of some insurance policy. And, God forbid, if I'm ever down on my luck, I'd like to have the same care as the next guy with fat wallet.

It's called being a member of a civilized society.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

Edited by carbonhoots (04/18/04 12:15 AM)

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: MorningStar]
    #2572760 -

There is also competition in a private system. If company A outperforms company B guess which company makes more money? Government has no incentive to keep costs low. Just look at the overhead in all of our current government programs. To assume it would be any different in healthcare seems foolish to me.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2572821 -

yep. when that fat, cola swilling, fast-food and wonderbread eating woman down the street needs meds for the high cholestorol and diabetes her choices brought on her...when old bill's black lungs finally sprout a tumor from a lifetime of cigarettes,

Do either of these people actually exist anywhere but your imagination?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2572824 -

It's called being a member of a civilized society.

A civilised society?

COMMIE!! :whoa:

:laugh:

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2573178 -

Quote:
Do either of these people actually exist anywhere but your imagination?


What an incredibly stupid question.

They exist in droves. Right alongside those who drink themselves to death, those who go hiking without the proper equipment, those who ride without helmets and many more people who bring their misery on themselves.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2573228 -

So a fat wonderbread eating woman lives down the street from mush and he knows an "old bill"?

You're absolutely sure about that?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2573244 -

Disingenuous, dishonest, despicable.

In a world where change happens at an astonishing rate, you are a constant. A constant most of us would be ashamed of. I guess being disingenuous, dishonest, and despicable works for you though.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2573279 -

Here's my question again:

Do either of these people actually exist anywhere but your imagination?

Would you care to adddress it rather than post the same 12 month old flames you always do?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2573293 -

You are, or at the very least should be, well aware there are people like this all around us.


Quote:
Would you care to adddress it rather than post the same 12 month old flames you always do?


They aren't 12 months old, nor is the truth ever a flame.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2573482 -

The question was:

Do either of these people actually exist anywhere but your imagination?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2573504 -

And oh dishonest one, as I said... Yes. They are, quite sadly, everywhere.

So now a question from me.....
Does the lying and dishonesty come naturally or is it something you developed over the years?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2573528 -

:yawn:

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2573546 -

Alex123 said:
yep. when that fat, cola swilling, fast-food and wonderbread eating woman down the street needs meds for the high cholestorol and diabetes her choices brought on her...when old bill's black lungs finally sprout a tumor from a lifetime of cigarettes,

Do either of these people actually exist anywhere but your imagination?


I take it you've never been to America.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: z@z.com]
    #2573547 -

z@z.com said:
Alex123 said:
yep. when that fat, cola swilling, fast-food and wonderbread eating woman down the street needs meds for the high cholestorol and diabetes her choices brought on her...when old bill's black lungs finally sprout a tumor from a lifetime of cigarettes,

Do either of these people actually exist anywhere but your imagination?


I take it you've never been to America.


Sadly they aren't just in America.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2573841 -

Quote:
carbonhoots said:
What are you trying to prove with your figures?


Re-read my post, read the link. They're in English.

Quote:
People have been coming up with these facts and figures to prove socialized health insurance will bankrupt the country for 40 years now.


Please explain to me how the U.S. will remain solvent if it continues it's present course. Where will the money come from? If the tax rates are jacked up, how will this affect people's disposable income? How will this affect jobs? If the government decides to massively increase the money supply to cover these obligations, how will this affect the value of people's money (their purchasing power)? Won't we experience massive inflation? How will this affect the economy? The U.S. systems of Medicare and Social Security are actuarially unsound. Do you deny this or do you contend that they are in a sustainable condition based on current practices? Please provide the figures to support such a claim if in fact you agree with it.

Quote:
Those kinds of people are the same sort who say that CO2 emissions don't cause global warming. They are paid well to play Devil's advocate.


BULLSHIT. Please see my response above and offer counter arguments based on the facts of current revenue streams, current expenditures, current debt loads, service on current and projected future debt, projected future revenue streams and projected future expenditures.

Quote:
Before Canada actually implemented the law, those people said newborn babies would be owned by the government if there was public health insurance. Fortunately, back in reality, some people knew what was going on.


This is irrelevant to the facts pertaining to the solvency of the system.

Quote:
Why do some people think they need a middleman, who makes boatlaods of money, to provide them with health insurance? Why not cut out the middleman and spend those dollars on patients and technology?


Government's not a middle man between you and your health care provider? Do you think that government doesn't waste money? How do you think that the multiple levels of state bureaucrats get paid?

Quote:
Do you and your family have fully comprehensive coverage for your 208 per month?


Yes.

Quote:
Do you have any restrictions?


Well I don't have the policy in front of me, but I'm sure pre-existing conditions are not covered. It does not cover eyeglasses, dentistry or non-necessary (cosmetic) procedures.

Quote:
Can you see a doctor out of state no problem?


Yes, there are no restrictions on which doctors we can see, we can even see a doctor in another country if medically necessary, and it will be paid for.

Quote:
How about a deductible?


20% maximum, $3,000 maximum per year. It's not that much, nothing to whine about. Plus we put money into an interest bearing HSA (health savings account) for this purpose. The money is pre-tax (lowering our adjusted gross income) and checks are written from this account. This account is similar to an IRA in that along with pre-tax deposits and having non-taxable interest, after I reach 65 I can use the money for my retirement (at which time, BTW, social security WILL be bankrupt).

Quote:
I like my health insurance written into law rather than the fine print of some insurance policy.


Law that can be changed or reinterpreted by a bureaucrat or judge on a whim? Law that can say your treatment is contingent upon parameters set up by those 'fighting' the drug war or any other politically motivated bullshit? Law set up by people with a time horizon limited to the next election cycle? Law that sets up systems that are financially unsound?

Quote:
It's called being a member of a civilized society.


Really? Is it by implication then uncivilized for one to be responsible for himself and his family, for one to take action to insure their medical needs are taken care of?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2573879 -

Do either of these people actually exist anywhere but your imagination?

there are plenty of people who smoke and get lung cancer or eat terribly unhealthy food and don't excericise who get high cholesterol, heart disease, or diabetes. some of these people are, or will be, on tax-funded medicare for the ailments they've caused for themselves.

i have no problem with people living the way they want to and making their own free choices. what i do have a problem with is when someone else is expected to pay the consequences.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2573885 -

Quote:
Disingenuous, dishonest, despicable.

In a world where change happens at an astonishing rate, you are a constant. A constant most of us would be ashamed of. I guess being disingenuous, dishonest, and despicable works for you though.




^^Petty little hate machine arent u?


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2573950 -

Nope.

Just being accurate, and honest.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Evolving]
    #2575425 -

Well, your health plan sounds pretty good. I wouldn't complain if I were you.

But I've heard of people who are not so healthy, getting denied access to health insurance beacause they are too great a risk. You know this happens right? That would be pretty shitty for them. And I don't believe in leaving the sick and weak to die without proper help if it can be helped. And it can. There are ample resources availible. I'm just making the point that public insurance is more humane and compasionate than private.

As for your max 3000$ deductable, that just means your access is all well and good, untill you may really need it. For working people, coming up with 3000$ dollars a year when you are too sick to work could lead to financial ruin. (sell the house)

As for government wasting money, in the area of public insurance, it's been proven time and time again to be far more efficient than private insurance.

When you talk about these systems, like social security and medicare, going broke, keep in mind the GDP of your nation. There is more than enough money in America to keep everyone on stable ground. No one in Canada sells their house to pay for medical bils.

Yes it's true these systems will run out of money if things don't change, but the USA is ample rich enough to provide social programs to it's population. It's a matter of priorities and political will. The public sector is starved while billionaires walk amonst us. There is more than enough to go around. And many countries that are not nearly as rich as USA provide a safe, secure living to all their citizens, through democratic government redistribution and spending.

An all inclusive, just, more egalitarian society is not only possible, it's crying to happen. It will happen in the not so distant future, and the people of the future will look back on this age of inequality with disgust.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2575768 -

carbonhoots said:
Yes it's true these systems will run out of money if things don't change, but the USA is ample rich enough to provide social programs to it's population. It's a matter of priorities and political will. The public sector is starved while billionaires walk amonst us. There is more than enough to go around. And many countries that are not nearly as rich as USA provide a safe, secure living to all their citizens, through democratic government redistribution and spending.


Wait i never thought about it like that, maybe America should become socialist like you are describing.

Oh no, wait, thats a horrible idea haha haha haha ha.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2576581 -

there are plenty of people

So I take it neither of the two people you mentioned exist anywhere but in your imagination and are as valid as someone saying "Old Isaac with the hook nose down the street who takes all your money and has bags of gold.."

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2576585 -

^^Petty little hate machine arent u?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2576789 -

Old Isaac with the hook nose down the street who takes all your money and has bags of gold.."

old isaac doesn't represent real people.

there are real people who do exist who are 100% responsible for their own medical ailments for which others are expected to provide care via medicare.

do you mean to suggest that no one on medicare has gotten ill or injured from things like cigarette smoking, alcoholism, poor diet, lack of excercise, reckless driving, unprotected sex, etc. etc. etc. and had the taxpayer foot the bill?

no one like that really exists? they're just figments of my imagination?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2576973 -

old isaac doesn't represent real people.

There arn't any rich jews who have taken people's money?

no one like that really exists? they're just figments of my imagination?

Yeah but it's like any lazy stereotyping isn't it. Some neo-nazi could say "These niggers who wear gold chains and rob old ladies are figments of my imagination are they?".

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2577077 -

There arn't any rich jews who have taken people's money?

i imagine there might be a few. what does that have to do with anything?

Yeah but it's like any lazy stereotyping isn't it. Some neo-nazi could say "These niggers who wear gold chains and rob old ladies are figments of my imagination are they?".

i'm not stereotyping anyone. i'm not trying to claim that all, or even most, of the people on medicare are receiving treatment for ailments to which they owe their own behavior. what i am saying is that personal behaviors do affect one's health, and consequently, one's need for medical services, that there are some people recieving tax-funded medical care as a result of their own unhealthy decisions, and that there would be even more if health care was nationalized.

note that when individual health becomes a communal interest, it sets a pretext for government intervention in what may be deemed 'unhealthy' behavior. we can say that smoking cigarettes (or pot, or drinking booze, or having unprotected sex with a total stranger, or eating steak) in the privacy of your own home is a totally victimless act that harms no one but the smoker in any way. when others are forced to pay for their medical care, this is not the case. now the community at large bears the responsibility for the consequences of one's behavior, and it is far easier to justify restrictions on one's behavior.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2577203 -

carbonhoots said:
When you talk about these systems, like social security and medicare, going broke, keep in mind the GDP of your nation. There is more than enough money in America to keep everyone on stable ground. No one in Canada sells their house to pay for medical bils.

Yes it's true these systems will run out of money if things don't change, but the USA is ample rich enough to provide social programs to it's population. It's a matter of priorities and political will.


I am keeping in mind the GDP of the U.S. I'm talking economic and demographic realities which will come into conflict with socialist fantasies. The taxpayers are not a bottomless well that can be dipped into forever without destroying the well.

Do you understand the following concepts: current revenue streams, current expenditures, current debt loads, service on current and projected future debt, projected future revenue streams, projected future expenditures, demographics, ageing population, acturial calculations? Do you realize that the percentage of retirees is increasing? How will this affect revenue streams? How will this affect medical and social security expenses? If the tax rates are jacked up, how will this affect people's disposable income? How will this affect jobs? If the government decides to massively increase the money supply to cover these obligations, how will this affect the value of people's money (their purchasing power)? Won't we experience massive inflation? How will this affect the economy?

Failure to consider the afore mentioned concepts and questions will keep us on our present path and will bankrupt our country. Flippantly dismissing them under the notion that the USA is ample rich enough' displays ignorance and a commitment to remain so. Are you sure you're not an American voter?


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2577214 -

i imagine there might be a few. what does that have to do with anything?

About as much as your sterotyping has to do with people who need healthcare.

i'm not stereotyping anyone.

So you're just as likely to say "Old Bill down the street who has worked harder than I could ever dream of for 30 years who got injured in a car crash and needed healthcare for a month while he healed and then went back to work in constant pain"?

Why were both your stereotypes negative?

now the community at large bears the responsibility for the consequences of one's behavior..

The system in the UK works by "national insurance". You pay a little out of your pay packet every month and if you ever need help it's there.

that there are some people recieving tax-funded medical care as a result of their own unhealthy decisions

So what? How many people are recieving tax-funded medical care as a result of going out jogging? Playing sports? More people need hospital treatment in the UK as a result of exercising than do from using Ecstasy. Where do you draw your arbitary lines about what injuries and illness are a result of "their own unhealthy decisions"?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: carbonhoots]
    #2577251 -

but the USA is ample rich enough to provide social programs to it's population.

The "we can't afford it" angle always amuses me considering Britain introduced much of the welfare state in 1945 after just spending 6 years fighting a world war.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2577417 -

alex. read carefully:

your health is affected by your behavior. when your health becomes a communal responsibility, your private behavior becomes a communal interest. things like neglecting to wear a helmet or seatbelt, using drugs or eating unhealthy food, which would otherwise be a personal decision, are now everyone else's business.

About as much as your sterotyping has to do with people who need healthcare.

you are misinterpreting me. i am not saying that nationalized healthcare is a bad idea because everyone, or most, of the people who use it are freeloading off other people to pay for their reckless or unhealthy behavior. i was making an observation, not an argument. i am fully aware that there are millions of people with diseases or injuries which are no fault of their own. i'll say this again: i am not trying to stereotype anyone. you are completely missing my point.

nationalized healthcare is a bad idea because it is wrong to force people to pay for a service they don't want to pay for, and because it sets a pretext for greater government intervention in the private behavior of citizens.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2577457 -

things like neglecting to wear a helmet or seatbelt, using drugs or eating unhealthy food, which would otherwise be a personal decision, are now everyone else's business.

Did you read my post? How many people do you think need treatment after injuring themselves exercising or playing sports? What "human behaviour" doesn't entail the risk of injury or illness? Are you trying to say we have to apportion blame for each activity?

Keith Richards spent a decade injecting heroin every day and chain smoking, should he have to pay for Jim Fixx's heart problems? Or a guy who breaks his neck playing american football? Everyone on earth does an activity that may damage their health. Why try and seperate off or "blame" the ones who "eat unhealthy food"?

i am not trying to stereotype anyone. you are completely missing my point.

Surely you realise the wonderbread eating fat woman "down the street" and old bill were stereotypes?

nationalized healthcare is a bad idea because it is wrong to force people to pay for a service they don't want to pay for

Not sure about that. Even the right-wingers in the UK would think twice before trying to privatise the health service. The vast bulk of people in England are incredibly proud and passionate about public healthcare. If any politician says they want to spend more on the national health service they sure as hell arn't going to lose any votes.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2577497 -

Did you read my post? How many people do you think need treatment after injuring themselves exercising or playing sports? What "human behaviour" doesn't entail the risk of injury or illness?

i understand your point. all human endeavors involve some risk. because the risks are beared by individuals, individuals are free to decide what risks they will expose themselves to. when the community bears some of the risk, the community will have grounds to impose its own standards as to what risks are acceptable. you are making what would otherwise be private behavior a public concern.

Well, surely you realise the wonderbread eating fat woman "down the street" and old bill were stereotypes?

of whom?

Not sure about that.

not sure about what?

not sure that people are being forced to receive and pay for a service they do not want to receive and pay for? you don't there's anyone in the UK who doesn't like paying for national healthcare and would rather use a private provider?

not sure about it being unethical? you don't think it's unethical to force someone to receive and pay for something they don't want to receive and pay for?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2577509 -

the community will have grounds to impose its own standards as to what risks are acceptable.

Doesn't sound very libertarian. So we have to listen to some pain in the ass who arbitrarily makes rules that say "You can't have any healthcare if you do this, this or that?". Are they going to send the cops to check up on whether or not you're masturbating too much?

not sure about what? the fact that people are being forced to pay for a service they do not want?

Who are these people? If a political group in the UK said they wanted to end national health care they would be lucky to get a handful of votes.

you don't there's anyone in the UK who doesn't like paying for national healthcare and would rather use a private provider?

I'm sure there are some people who don't want jews to be kept out of the gas chambers either - at some point we have to make a decision based on what's best for most people.

of course the poor family that pays $25 a year more in taxes for national healthcare probably doesn't mind paying that much for it. the business owner who contributes $8,000 a year for it probably does.

And what if the poor family eat healthily and train while the buisness owner eats fatty foods and fucks whores in hotel rooms on business trips and needs thousands more in healthcare? What if his business collapses tomorrow and he ends up poor? What if he's got such lousy working conditions that hundreds of his staff need healthcare?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2577528 -

Doesn't sound very libertarian.

that's the point alex. because the community now has to pay for what would otherwise be private decisions, there is now grounds for those decisions to become public ones.

Who are these people?

probably many of those who are paying more for the healthcare they recieve than its market value. you understand that because some people are recieiving healthcare for less than its market value, some must pay more? some benefit at the expense of others. the fact that the beneficiaries outnumber the victims may make the program politically popular, but it does not make it ethical.

And what if the poor family eat healthily and train while the buisness owner eats fatty foods and fucks whores in hotel rooms on business trips and needs thousands more in healthcare? What if his business collapses tomorrow and he ends up poor?

has my point completely gone over your head? read my reply above.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2577572 -

So you're just as likely to say "Old Bill down the street who has worked harder than I could ever dream of for 30 years who got injured in a car crash and needed healthcare for a month while he healed and then went back to work in constant pain"?

It's pretty clear on this end that he meant that their would certainly be all levels of participants in this program. Old Bill (do you know an old bill, btw, or is he a figment of YOUR imagination) down the street might bust his ass for 30 years, then get hit by a car, and be covered. However, the exact opposite end of the spectrum could occur, the people that consciously make bad health decisions. Why should Old Bill who has busted his ass and (since I'm sure you are making him up, i'll add to him some) kept him self healthy, exercized regularly etc, and has NEVER had to use any of the medical benefits that he's been paying for, have to pay into a system on the same basis that the people that spend their entire lives watching Springer and eating food that ends with "o's" (doritos, chees-os' etc). Don't you think that Old Bill is getting the shaft here?

Why were both your stereotypes negative?

to demonstrate how people that aren't caring about their health are going to, most likely, be using more of the health care program than people that are. At my work, I pay (I think) 34$/month for full coverage for me, a 23 year old male with no children (that I'm aware of) and no spouse. This is the standard non-smoker rate, I believe that smokers pay a 6$/month surcharge for their habit. One time a year we have a "health fest" with an incentive program. If you have a body fat of less than X percentage, you get 4$ knocked off your monthly charges. If you are able to walk 2 miles in less than X time, you get another 4$ knocked off. If your cholestorol and glucose levels are within acceptable ranges, you get another 4$ knocked off. People that intentionally put themselves into a higher risk category should pay more for a program that, STATISTICALLY, they are more likely to use.
The system in the UK works by "national insurance". You pay a little out of your pay packet every month and if you ever need help it's there.
Is their any built-in incentive for those that try hard to keep themselves healthy?

So what? How many people are recieving tax-funded medical care as a result of going out jogging? Playing sports? More people need hospital treatment in the UK as a result of exercising than do from using Ecstasy. Where do you draw your arbitary lines about what injuries and illness are a result of "their own unhealthy decisions"?
I don't know how the UK works, but since you talked about that nation earlier, I'll assume you are from the UK. Lets say that I bought a brand new Toyota hybrid car with dual airbags, antilock brakes, side curtain airbags, and I've never had a speeding ticket in my life. Should I pay the same amount of insurance as a person who just bought a Lamborghini Diablo, and has totalled their last 10 Lamborghini's?

To answer your question, the AHA and other health organizations know what the main risk factors are, but I don't want to get into a discussion of all of them. Lets start small here, do you think that a smoker should pay the same amount of insurance as a non-smoker? These are the only two aspects that you can see about a person, no other factors are to be taken into consideration. Person 1 uses a product that kills 1/3 of the people that use it, and person 2 doesn't.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: ]
    #2577730 -

Just come across this mush, wonder how this guy should be judged by the community? You think he's cost the health service more than "old bill"?

Jim Cantalupo, chief executive and chairman of fast-food chain McDonald's, has died of an apparent heart attack.
The company said the 60-year-old had been attending a meeting of restaurant franchise owners in Orlando, Florida, when he fell ill.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3639607.stm

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2577920 -

Just come across this mush, wonder how this guy should be judged by the community? You think he's cost the health service more than "old bill"?

You are missing the point completely. The McD's exec made available a product that, when used in excess, can lead to conditions that raise the risk of select disease. In this instance, for the entire sub-thread that you, mush and I have going, we are discussing the inequality of how people treat THEMSELVES, and how they pay into the hypothetical socialized health care system. If he simply makes a product available, he isn't held, in this instance, to call upon for people that decide to abuse the product he makes available.

I can't speak for mushguy, but I can say that I think that people who undergo certain risks should pay higher premiums for any sort of insurance. That is why people with DUI's pay staggering insurance rates. If I choose to work for a company that manufactures food that isn't meant to be eaten at every meal, thats my decision. However, if someone chooses to EAT that food in excess, and not exercise to play down any harmful ramifications of this life choice, that is their choice. I'm not saying that we should limit their choice, or take it away, I'm simply saying that the cupability, and the higher insurance rates, lie solely in the lap of those that make the INFORMED decision to take higher risk lifestyles.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2581475 -

It's usually recognised that the supplier should be treated more harshly than the small-time guy buying tho. If these companies are making massive profits destroying health and increasing health care costs surely they should pay more towards health care than "old bill".

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2583660 -

Let me ensure that my understanding of your "point" is complete...

First, mushmaster used fictitious characters to describe a particular situation. You jumped on him saying that these people don't exist. Then you did the same thing and, apparently, it was then OK and not "sterotyping"

Second, I replied to your post with numerous questions, I see none of them answered

Third, you are bringing the war on drugs, which it seems has little support here, into this picture saying we should punish the supplier "more harshly" than the small time guy buying. However, the fact that the company PRODUCES a product that can be ABused doesn't in any way reflect upon the culpability.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2586462 -

You jumped on him saying that these people don't exist.

Well I asked him whether they existed anywhere except in his imagination.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

Just old enough to remember lysergic/johnnyrespect/enima/TOYK. Didn't you threaten to "fuck" with the board for banning you so many times? Who let you back in?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2587819 -

Why don't you actually answer my points instead of calling me names? I have no idea what you are tlaking about, but I do know that you answered zero of my X questions.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2589539 -

Yes enima  :rolleyes:

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2589601 -

germin8tionn8ion writes:

Why don't you actually answer my points instead of calling me names?

Don't take it personally. It's just Alex's style. He doesn't answer questions.

pinky


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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Phred]
    #2590513 -

I answer any question that is worth replying to. I didn't think the questions of a guy who'se been banned at least 5 times and threatened to attack and bring down the shroomery rated as being that important. Obviously you do.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2590707 -

Alex123 writes:

I answer any question that is worth replying to.

Bwahahahaha! Sure you do, Alex, sure you do.

I didn't think the questions of a guy who'se been banned at least 5 times and threatened to attack and bring down the shroomery rated as being that important.

I don't know who germin8tionn8ion is in real life, but he's not TheOneYouKnow/enimatpyrt/lysergic/JohnnyRespect. The Admins have run two different puppet check programs (which use different methodology to detect puppetry) on him at my request and he's squeaky clean.

pinky


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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2591401 -

Quote:
I answer any question that is worth replying to.


Hey, here you are both being funny and lying at the same time. Pretty good.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Phred]
    #2591609 -

pinksharkmark said:
Alex123 writes:

I answer any question that is worth replying to.



Then answer if you feel that a person who has a history of driving while intoxicated should pay more insurance premiums than a 50 year old man who has never had even a speeding ticket. Or, if you don't think that is "worth replying to", please answer why you don't.
Quote:
I don't know who germin8tionn8ion is in real life, but he's not TheOneYouKnow/enimatpyrt/lysergic/JohnnyRespect. The Admins have run two different puppet check programs (which use different methodology to detect puppetry) on him at my request and he's squeaky clean.



I was wondering what the names with slashes referred to. I am not now, nor have I ever been, any of the aforementioned people. Mushmaster was nice enough to PM me and let me know why people were being "hostile" towards me. I hope this clears it up. He also said that the person/s in question had a history of being racist, and was very conservative. Neither apply to me, as you will all find out.

Thanks

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Phred]
    #2593292 -

Bwahahahaha! Sure you do, Alex, sure you do.

Perhaps you should try asking a question that's worth replying to?

but he's not TheOneYouKnow/enimatpyrt/lysergic/JohnnyRespect

We'll see.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2593592 -

Alex123 writes:

Perhaps you should try asking a question that's worth replying to?

Ooooooh, Alex! Are you sure you want to open that can of worms again? I'm sure you remember my half dozen questions to you on deposing Hussein which were asked repeatedly (by myself and several others) over a year ago. I know many others here certainly remember them. There are a few dozen other questions I could dredge up as well, if you like.

We'll see.

Alex, I can assure you the administrators here take very seriously people like TheOneYouKnow/enimatpyrt/lysergic/JohnnyRespect who threaten to attack the server. They have a couple of very competent programs they run to detect puppets. When I asked them to check out germin8tionn8ion as a possible TOYK puppet, they did so right away. Both methods show him as clean. He is neither TOYK's puppet nor is he a puppet of any other currently registered Shroomery member.

pinky


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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Phred]
    #2594397 -

I'm sure you remember my half dozen questions to you on deposing Hussein which were asked repeatedly

Read my reply again. It said a question  worth replying to. 

There are a few dozen other questions I could dredge up as well, if you like.

Please do so. I'd especially like to see all your questions about the "tons of VX gas" in Iraq or the one about "Do you REALLY believe Saddam destroyed his WMD...". And what was that hilarious bullshit you used to post about the Iraqis mastering advanced "binary" methods of extending the shelf-life of WMD that they hadn't got? Man that was hilarious. Don't mention much about that these days do you :lol:

PLEASE dig those old posts out. I tried to find them once but they'd mysteriously been deleted :lol:

Both methods show him as clean

So there's another guy at the shroomery with exactly the same views on everything who uses exactly the same language, has a stick up his ass about exactly the same people, arrives at the shroomery within a few weeks of being banned and within a week of being back on the board runs to write (his third) pissy rating of me using the same insult he used under his other name?

Like I said, we'll see.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2594473 -

exactly the same views on everything .

Many people here share the same views.

who uses exactly the same language

English? And unless TOYK brushed up on his grammar and learned to use spell check, this is not him.

stick up his ass about exactly the same people

Maybe these people express opinions that compel those with opposing views to aggressively refute.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2594941 -

And unless TOYK brushed up on his grammar and learned to use spell check, this is not him.

Can't agree with you there Hag. Check out the long sentences with commas style and thehabit of starting with a couple of words before putting a comma. Seems awful similar to me. You got any examples of differences?:

Or, if you don't think that is "worth replying to", please answer why you don't.

In 12 years, when that doesn't work, the leader is still building palaces and the people are still starving, and we invade him, will you promise not to complain about it? Heck, you could even send in UN Inspectors to make sure that they were treating their people fairly, UN inspectors, sanctions, no foreign aid, how could that fail?

I didn't avoid any questions, I can't answer in the two threads that I started, and the other one doesn't have any questions.

Again, interesting how you'll make a generic, broad statment about the inherent evilness of Whitey, but I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't make one about Negros.

More importantly, why can you make negative blanket statments about white people and it's fun and fantastic, but if I were do to the same about negros, I'm a "Racist"?

The first two are germ, the middle TOYK, the last two enima.

Also look at where lysergic used to post - you'll find lots of posts in mushroom cultivation. Check out where germ posts.

Like I said, we'll see.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Evolving]
    #2594986 -

Quote:
I pay only $208 a month for health insurance for a family of four



Hey dude, where did you get this plan??? I want it too!!! Do you live in Iceland?:) What does it cover? 30 pils of Prozac per month?


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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Johan Shultz]
    #2595102 -

Johan Shultz said:
Quote:
I pay only $208 a month for health insurance for a family of four



Hey dude, where did you get this plan???


Through an insurance agent. Do some research on HSA's (Health Savings Accounts) and PPO's (Preferred Provider Organizations), try using Google. An HSA is like a medical IRA, it will lower your tax liability (assuming you're not suckling on the government teat) and provide you with a supplement to your retirment if you do not use the money up before then. It would be wise to investigate this option and start now. If you're my age or younger, it is reasonable to make plans that do not rely on medicare and social security.

Quote:
I want it too!!!


Nothing is stopping you. It would be even cheaper if you have no family and are younger.

Quote:
Do you live in Iceland?:)


California.

Quote:
What does it cover?


Read my previous posts.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2597022 -

English? And unless TOYK brushed up on his grammar and learned to use spell check, this is not him.

Still waiting to hear why you said this Hag.

Posted by germin8tionn8ion:

I'd let the compost soak in water, in the pillowcase you are going to use for your pasteurization, to re-hydrate fully prior to the pasteurization process.

Posted by lysergic:

would it hurt for it to sit, in the pillowcase under water, for 2 total days before it is pasteurized?

Posted by germin8tionn8ion:

Last Monday I mailed an order to Ryche. I have ordered from him numerous times in the past. Yea, as I said, Ryche is the shit. When this order comes and he tells me he's 'back', he'll be my only source again.

Posted by lysergic:

Ryche Hawk is a top-quality businessman with top-quality products.I assure you you'll be satisfied with your order, mine wasn't even subject to the time delay that some people mention

Posted by germin8tionn8ion:

Have 10 clean half-pint jars on hand with a tablespoon or so of Karo in the jar.

Posted by lysergic:

Maybe mix in some Karo with this, then sterilize

Posted by germin8tionn8ion:

The Roman's decided to name the land that the people of the Jewish faith (who, as you point out, are part of a people called the semites) "Palestine", after the pracititioners of the Jewish faith, and the tribe of Semites, enemy, the Phillistines, of Goliathian fame. The land was, as you say, populated mainly by people of the Semetic tribe. Now, not all Jews are Semetic, per se, and certaintly not all Semites are Jewish. The relevance being, the area wasn't alwasy known as that.

Posted by lysergic:

No, however, the bible was written by two [main] types of people. Religious editors, and historical editors. Everything from King David on down is written in the bible, and I don't see any Islamic types mentioned as living in these regions. Don't even think Mo-hammy was profetting to us yet  So how could the "arab people" have been there? All of the tribes that the bible alludes to as living there are semites. {note, not All of them, I admit, but most]

Posted by germin8tionn8ion (spot the lysergic trademark double comma sentence structure):

I was wondering what the names with slashes referred to. I am not now, nor have I ever been, any of the aforementioned people. Mushmaster was nice enough to PM me and let me know why people were being "hostile" towards me. I hope this clears it up.

:rolleyes:

Yes indeed, it clears it up, quite remarkably.



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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2597844 -

This other character/s uses pillowcases to pasteurize his compost? Now even I'm convinced!

You referred to the rating that s/he gave you as with the one that Igave you, I actually rated you three shrooms which comes to "good". Right?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2597994 -

My observation was based only (from memory) on what I've read of both of them in this forum. You've obviously put more thought, time, and research in this than I. Though I don't think anything you presented in any way determines what your trying to prove. And even if it were him, he's been able to fool the administration, moderators, and other members here. He's also been quite rational and presented his side with logically applied and relevant information.

If only you would spend as much effort on the relevant issues.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

Edited by HagbardCeline (04/24/04 12:33 PM)

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2598004 -

I'm not going to let you keep derailing threads in this forum. If you have an issue with his identity feel free to take it up with the Admins.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2598155 -

Baby_Hitler said:
I'm not going to let you keep derailing threads in this forum. If you have an issue with his identity feel free to take it up with the Admins.


You could even direct him to me. If he sent me a PM and I was assured he'd keep the private aspect of it, I'd give him details of my life that drastically are not in line with JohnnyBravo. Examples; I wasn't in the military.

Alex, why aren't you answering any of the questions that I posted that are actually in line with the subject matter at hand?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: germin8tionn8ion]
    #2598907 -

For your own well being, do not in any way trust Alex123. Did he not just publicize several PMs to make an asinine point, and not very well at that. I believe some of those PMs could be construed as describing illegal activities as well.


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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2600086 -

Did he not just publicize several PMs to make an asinine point

What are you talking about?

I believe some of those PMs

What PM's?

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2600092 -

Though I don't think anything you presented in any way determines what your trying to prove.

And what have you presented to support your belief that it isn't him? You don't seriously believe they are two different guys do you?

he's been able to fool the administration, moderators, and other members here.

Nah, he's fooled you and a few other right wingers who don't want to see the truth, not the admins. Lets wait a while and see what happens...

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2600123 -

Alex, if you have a gripe with the admins, gripe to the admins. He's passed the puppet-sniffer software, and the admins are satisfied he's not a puppet -- despite your insinuations to the contrary. Stop cluttering up the forum with your suspicions.

You've had warnings now from both the active moderators of this forum to drop this. I suggest you heed them.

pinky

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Phred]
    #2600143 -

Alex, if you have a gripe

No "gripe", merely wishing to see guys who have threatened to bring down the shroomery removed no matter how much they agree with your politics.

despite your insinuations to the contrary

I have posted a series of posts by a banned member that correlate precisely to posts by a new member. That's clearly a little more than "insinuations" to any fair-minded observer and I would expect any responsible mod to take that on board. Not put his petty personal hatreds first.

the admins

I always go to the admins. You don't think I'd waste my time discussing any aspects of board policy with you or "babyhitler" do you?

suggest you heed them

The point has already been made so there's nothing more to say. Like I said, lets wait and see.

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2600150 -

Glad to hear it. I take it this means you are finished trying to derail this and other threads and that further posts of yours in this thread (assuming you make any) will address the topic of socialized medicine.

pinky


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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Phred]
    #2600154 -

:laugh:

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Re: Medicare...A burden removed, or a communist plot? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2600701 -

To support the wishes of the moderators, I'll see if this can be roped back in to being on topic.

Alex, when we left off, you said that you answer any questions that [you feel] deserves an answer. To help you in doing this, I'll list the ones that I have here so you can answer them without having to look at numerous posts in the past.

a) Do you think that people who voluntarily take on risk factors that are associated with the particular insurance in question should have to pay higher rates?

b) Do you think that people who own automobiles that fail government safety checks should pay more for their car insurance?

c) If you don't feel either of these quandries are worth a reply, why not?

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