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Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: qman]
    #25687501 -

qman said:
krypto2000 said:
qman said:
koods said:
Making the number two orders of magnitude bigger is not the same situation. That would be a crisis. We aren’t talking about that so why do you alway make that argument? It’s like saying “if you like drinking 4 liters of water a day, why don’t you drink 400”


What difference does it make, illegals and their children are a NET DRAIN on tax use in the US. Just because someone pays taxes on a pack of gum doesn't mean they create a tax surplus.

It doesn't matter if there's 400 or 24 million, all broke migrants are a net DRAIN on the government finances.


Are they stealing our jobs or are they unemployed and broke? Both cannot be true. Do you think they come over and live in public housing surviving on food stamps or something?


What do you think happens when illegals undercut wages and then use social services paid for by the US taxpayer? 

Yes, they hurt US wages and then hurt the US citizen on taxes and social benefits. 

There's a price to pay for the elite using cheap illegal labor in the US and it lands on the steps of the average US citizen.


They're undercutting minimum wage jobs? I don't see that as a problem. If we had a bunch of mid level skilled workers coming over and taking middle class jobs or we had high unemployment and low skill jobs were hard to come by then this would be a valid argument.

In fact I do think that's a problem, because it's a very real issue that is happening. People are coming over on H1B visas and working mid level skilled jobs for less than the native population lowering middle class wages. You don't complain about that though because they're not hispanic and they're legal.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: koods]
    #25687507 -

Yeah we kicked ass. Our shift for quality rarely had re-works. Because we made sure the first piece and pallet were perfect.

The guys on the floor would walk miles in circles to ensure every pallet was perfect. Most of the mistakes came from night shift and first shift. Weekend shift was pretty damn good.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: krypto2000] * 2
    #25687510 -

Quote:
all broke migrants are a net DRAIN on the government finances.


They are very motivated workers. Most of them are productive and contribute to the local economy. The provide labor that in many cases would be difficult or impossible to replace. You completely avoid the FACT they represent 60% of the agriculture workforce and the FACT that most of those jobs would go unfilles without them. We KNOW this because there are historical examples of this exact problem. Xuls factory had to reduce their productivity by more than half because there wasn’t qualified labor available. You continue to ignore the fact that there would be serious economic damage if these workers were not available .


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: qman]
    #25687511 -

qman said:
Why do you think my Polish ancestors were allowed to enter the US over 100 years ago?  To undercut the wages of the native population and that's exactly what they did.


Your argument is going nowhere.
Blaming your ancestors is grasping at straws don't you think?
I posted a credible link, let's see if you can post one.... well?

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: XUL]
    #25687512 -

Were these guys at your job even illegals or were they simply immigrants? Or are you arguing against immigration period?

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: Stable Genius]
    #25687518 -

Stable Genius said:
qman said:
Why do you think my Polish ancestors were allowed to enter the US over 100 years ago?  To undercut the wages of the native population and that's exactly what they did.


Your argument is going nowhere.
Blaming your ancestors is grasping at straws don't you think?
I posted a credible link, let's see if you can post one.... well?


He kind of has a point. If none of our ancestors immigrated into this country then we wouldn't have this problem today. He's not even wrong. :shrug:

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: krypto2000]
    #25687520 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
koods said:
Making the number two orders of magnitude bigger is not the same situation. That would be a crisis. We aren’t talking about that so why do you alway make that argument? It’s like saying “if you like drinking 4 liters of water a day, why don’t you drink 400”


What difference does it make, illegals and their children are a NET DRAIN on tax use in the US. Just because someone pays taxes on a pack of gum doesn't mean they create a tax surplus.

It doesn't matter if there's 400 or 24 million, all broke migrants are a net DRAIN on the government finances.


Are they stealing our jobs or are they unemployed and broke? Both cannot be true. Do you think they come over and live in public housing surviving on food stamps or something?


What do you think happens when illegals undercut wages and then use social services paid for by the US taxpayer? 

Yes, they hurt US wages and then hurt the US citizen on taxes and social benefits. 

There's a price to pay for the elite using cheap illegal labor in the US and it lands on the steps of the average US citizen.


They're undercutting minimum wage jobs? I don't see that as a problem. If we had a bunch of mid level skilled workers coming over and taking middle class jobs or we had high unemployment and low skill jobs were hard to come by then this would be a valid argument.

In fact I do think that's a problem, because it's a very real issue that is happening. People are coming over on H1B visas and working mid level skilled jobs for less than the native population lowering middle class wages. You don't complain about that though because they're not hispanic and they're legal.


You're wrong mate, I have been bitching about ALL immigration, illegal and legal.

In fact, I have more issue with legal immigration at this point. In fact, I have pointed out how Trump stated that he wanted to increase legal immigration and how horrible that policy would be for US citizens.

Stop making assumptions on my mindset, this "racism" nonsense is getting so old.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: Stable Genius]
    #25687531 -

Stable Genius said:
qman said:
Why do you think my Polish ancestors were allowed to enter the US over 100 years ago?  To undercut the wages of the native population and that's exactly what they did.


Your argument is going nowhere.
Blaming your ancestors is grasping at straws don't you think?
I posted a credible link, let's see if you can post one.... well?


I agree that immigration has and can potentially increase GDP for a economy, but who does it benefit?  The top 1% or the 99%?  It clearly benefits the very top as they get to keep wages down and increase profit margins.

Why do you think we have wealth inequality at a 80 year high today?  Part of that is because of uncontrolled immigration into the US.

So keep on promoting a policy that benefits the very rich and hurts the average US citizen, and rationalize it because people like Paul Krugman convinced you that an increase in GDP benefits you when it really doesn't.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: qman]
    #25687533 -

What are the negative consequences of American's immigrating elsewhere? Or legal immigrants immigrating elsewhere?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: qman]
    #25687540 -

qman said:
Why do you think we have wealth inequality at a 80 year high today?


Because the top 1% have been filtered down to a nasty, greedy cohort of assholes

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: qman]
    #25687547 -

qman said:
You're wrong mate, I have been bitching about ALL immigration, illegal and legal.

In fact, I have more issue with legal immigration at this point. In fact, I have pointed out how Trump stated that he wanted to increase legal immigration and how horrible that policy would be for US citizens.

Stop making assumptions on my mindset, this "racism" nonsense is getting so old.


I did not mention or even imply anything about racism, I said you seem to be focusing on illegal hispanics. I don't believe you dislike them because they're brown, I think you dislike them because it's popular to do so, you're told they're the problem, and so you pick up that platform without much thought into it (that's my perception of your position, I'm not saying that's the case).

Anyway I fully agree though about the legal immigrants. If Trump would focus on that I'd support him; that does nothing but hurt the average american and prop up the wealthy.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: Stable Genius]
    #25687815 -

Stable Genius said:
qman said:
Why do you think we have wealth inequality at a 80 year high today?


Because the top 1% have been filtered down to a nasty, greedy cohort of assholes


Yep, and they're the most pro-immigration demographic in the US, pure chance?  I don't think so.

Who do you think is lobbying for more high skilled legal immigration into the US?  Yep, the corporate powers.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: krypto2000]
    #25687828 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
You're wrong mate, I have been bitching about ALL immigration, illegal and legal.

In fact, I have more issue with legal immigration at this point. In fact, I have pointed out how Trump stated that he wanted to increase legal immigration and how horrible that policy would be for US citizens.

Stop making assumptions on my mindset, this "racism" nonsense is getting so old.


I did not mention or even imply anything about racism, I said you seem to be focusing on illegal hispanics. I don't believe you dislike them because they're brown, I think you dislike them because it's popular to do so, you're told they're the problem, and so you pick up that platform without much thought into it (that's my perception of your position, I'm not saying that's the case).

Anyway I fully agree though about the legal immigrants. If Trump would focus on that I'd support him; that does nothing but hurt the average american and prop up the wealthy.


Hmm, I took issue with illegal immigration many years BEFORE it became "popular" to do so, but nice try. You're "preception" is really off base here, you clearly don't read my posts.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: qman]
    #25687908 -

qman said:
Yep, and they're the most pro-immigration demographic in the US, pure chance?  I don't think so.

Who do you think is lobbying for more high skilled legal immigration into the US?  Yep, the corporate powers.


Yes but even the greedy corporates go through skill shortages.
GE America retrenched 8000 workers during the recession in the early 90's, when the global outlook picked up a friend got a gig writing code for their dump trucks.
Without him and other skilled workers from overseas GE would have floundered.
Seriously there is very little downside to orderly immigration and a bit of dis-orderly immigration isn't bad either, what choices do the poorer people have?
I can only imagine what it's like to walk in their shoes and I have no problem offering a hand up to ANY person who wants it.
That's all.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: qman] * 2
    #25687936 -

qman said:
krypto2000 said:
qman said:
You're wrong mate, I have been bitching about ALL immigration, illegal and legal.

In fact, I have more issue with legal immigration at this point. In fact, I have pointed out how Trump stated that he wanted to increase legal immigration and how horrible that policy would be for US citizens.

Stop making assumptions on my mindset, this "racism" nonsense is getting so old.


I did not mention or even imply anything about racism, I said you seem to be focusing on illegal hispanics. I don't believe you dislike them because they're brown, I think you dislike them because it's popular to do so, you're told they're the problem, and so you pick up that platform without much thought into it (that's my perception of your position, I'm not saying that's the case).

Anyway I fully agree though about the legal immigrants. If Trump would focus on that I'd support him; that does nothing but hurt the average american and prop up the wealthy.


Hmm, I took issue with illegal immigration many years BEFORE it became "popular" to do so, but nice try. You're "preception" is really off base here, you clearly don't read my posts.


That may well be, it's up to you to persuade me otherwise and it's on me to not unfairly misrepresent you (which is why I specifically made the point to say that that was my perception of you and not necessarily true).

You can't reasonably expect me to go back and analyze your post history from before I became familiar with you, I have to form an opinion based on the information that is presented to me just as you do of me.

If it seems like everyone thinks you hate clowns when in fact you dont rather than blame everyone else you might instead ask what you're doing that caused them to form such an opinion.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: Stable Genius]
    #25691019 -

Stable Genius said:
qman said:
Yep, and they're the most pro-immigration demographic in the US, pure chance?  I don't think so.

Who do you think is lobbying for more high skilled legal immigration into the US?  Yep, the corporate powers.


Yes but even the greedy corporates go through skill shortages.
GE America retrenched 8000 workers during the recession in the early 90's, when the global outlook picked up a friend got a gig writing code for their dump trucks.
Without him and other skilled workers from overseas GE would have floundered.
Seriously there is very little downside to orderly immigration and a bit of dis-orderly immigration isn't bad either, what choices do the poorer people have?
I can only imagine what it's like to walk in their shoes and I have no problem offering a hand up to ANY person who wants it.
That's all.


I'm sorry, but we have borders, national sovereignty, citizenship and immigration laws for a reason and it's not to solve global poverty. :facepalm:

US companies can hire US workers, they don't need to undercut wages and use immigration to increase their already existing wealth inequality.

The downside to all of this immigration lands on US citizens, but obviously you're more concerned about non-citizens.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: krypto2000]
    #25691033 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
krypto2000 said:
qman said:
You're wrong mate, I have been bitching about ALL immigration, illegal and legal.

In fact, I have more issue with legal immigration at this point. In fact, I have pointed out how Trump stated that he wanted to increase legal immigration and how horrible that policy would be for US citizens.

Stop making assumptions on my mindset, this "racism" nonsense is getting so old.


I did not mention or even imply anything about racism, I said you seem to be focusing on illegal hispanics. I don't believe you dislike them because they're brown, I think you dislike them because it's popular to do so, you're told they're the problem, and so you pick up that platform without much thought into it (that's my perception of your position, I'm not saying that's the case).

Anyway I fully agree though about the legal immigrants. If Trump would focus on that I'd support him; that does nothing but hurt the average american and prop up the wealthy.


Hmm, I took issue with illegal immigration many years BEFORE it became "popular" to do so, but nice try. You're "preception" is really off base here, you clearly don't read my posts.


That may well be, it's up to you to persuade me otherwise and it's on me to not unfairly misrepresent you (which is why I specifically made the point to say that that was my perception of you and not necessarily true).

You can't reasonably expect me to go back and analyze your post history from before I became familiar with you, I have to form an opinion based on the information that is presented to me just as you do of me.

If it seems like everyone thinks you hate clowns when in fact you dont rather than blame everyone else you might instead ask what you're doing that caused them to form such an opinion.


Because many have been conditioned to deal with anyone who disagrees with them on certain issues to have a very simple response- accused them of racism.

If you disagree with immigration, you must "hate brown people" because they have been indoctrinated into believing all forms of immigration are beneficial, they have been suckered.  The elite don't want to explain the fine details of immigration and how it benefits them economically and hurts the average US citizen.  When people start believing the nonsense from Paul Krugman, what else is there to say on the subject matter?

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: qman] * 1
    #25691095 -

Who thinks all forms of immigration are beneficial? Honestly, I don't think I've ever heard somebody make that argument, so I'm curious.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: christopera]
    #25691108 -

christopera said:
Who thinks all forms of immigration are beneficial? Honestly, I don't think I've ever heard somebody make that argument, so I'm curious.


The argument has been made plenty of times in this forum. When the argument comes from 'helping poor people', every rationalization in the world will be used to justify the policy.

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Re: Migrants Demand Entry to U.S. Or $50K Each to Leave [Re: christopera]
    #25691117 -

christopera said:
Who thinks all forms of immigration are beneficial? Honestly, I don't think I've ever heard somebody make that argument, so I'm curious.


I heard that the Muslim migration into Europe would be highly beneficial. When i pointed out the atrocities they committed. I was basically told " short term loss. Long term gain".

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