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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26991707 - 10/18/20 06:26 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
They say "useful idiots" are the ones who spread disinformation.  They're obviously referring to people like me who tend to dig into the evidence to determine what the truth is.  Name calling like that is a dirty trick.



Quote:

Stable Genius said:
:awesketch: useful idiots?... yep, we're out there.



Ah, I just noticed you said "we're" out there.  Looks like you caught it too.

:highfive:


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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/18/20 11:09 PM)


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26992000 - 10/18/20 10:42 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

My favorite political disinformation  is definitely the “covid is a hoax thing . “
  My wife was telling me about this famous YouTube clown who was telling all his followers that it’s a hoax and karma killed him for it .  It was a cool story .
  It keeps happening to people , and it’s hilarious . I wish I knew who to thank for this entertaining shit .  If only there was one guy I could give credit to I would send him a gift basket or something .

https://cafemom.com/news/226144-man-dies-after-covid-party-hoax


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #26992762 - 10/19/20 01:17 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

I like the theory that the Pope added a random 300 years to history in order to validate the Holy Roman Empire. Gary Kasparov believes it lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26995690 - 10/21/20 06:07 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:They say "useful idiots" are the ones who spread disinformation.  They're obviously referring to people like me who tend to dig into the evidence to determine what the truth is.  Name calling like that is a dirty trick.




Hmmm, no I think they were probably talking about someone like Julian Assange for example.
Wikileaks would be a perfect target for a misinformation attempt.

If I get some time I'll go back through that video and take the RT challenge as I saw the NY Times highlight a couple of their news stories as fakes, not saying that they are, just saying  :thumbup:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26996262 - 10/21/20 02:00 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
If I get some time I'll go back through that video and take the RT challenge as I saw the NY Times highlight a couple of their news stories as fakes, not saying that they are, just saying  :thumbup:




You should do it.  Everyone here is still waiting for fake news from RT.com.

Remember, having a bias doesn't necessarily mean news fake.

For example, RT.com once said "heavily-armed NATO troops are firing their weapons near Norway's border with Russia."  The argument that this was fake news is that even though Norway shares a border with Russia, the exercises were ~800 miles away from the border.

The counter-argument was that John Bolton said "We strongly caution actors external to the Western Hemisphere against deploying military assets to Venezuela, or elsewhere in the Hemisphere, with the intent of establishing or expanding military operations.  We will consider such provocative actions as a direct threat to international peace and security in the region."

So if the US considers Venezuela too near, it it reasonable for Russia to complain about exercises in a country that shares a border.

"Near" may be a biased term, but both sides clearly have their biases.

Looking forward to you finding something!  :hatsoff:


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26999969 - 10/23/20 05:43 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Ok in that NY Times video story at the 24.22 mark they run through some news headlines, 4 of which were RT.

The first was a claim that MH17 was shot down by Ukranian fighter jets July 17 2014, I'm still reading through old news reports so I won't comment on this one just yet.
The other two stories were regarding Ebola and the Zika virus which I haven't looked at so far.


The one story that I can find plenty of conflicting stories with little evidence is the "fake?" civillian attack in Adra  where RT re broadcast unreliable news reports from Syrian TV, which after a quick Google search I was able to find evidence that they did repost old photos.
https://lopforum.tumblr.com/post/70411153632/alleged-adra-massacre-collated-media.
The link above came from a discussion on Reddit

This assessment of RT's work was scathing
https://www.interpretermag.com/the-massacre-in-syria-that-wasnt/

At the very least it looks like they didn't check their sources.
You could also say they were quick to broadcast fake news, and if this is due to bias I'm not sure that makes them any more reliable than any other news service?


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27000098 - 10/23/20 07:08 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Ok in that NY Times video story at the 24.22 mark they run through some news headlines, 4 of which were RT.

The first was a claim that MH17 was shot down by Ukranian fighter jets July 17 2014, I'm still reading through old news reports so I won't comment on this one just yet.



We've discussed MH17 at length in this forum.  Happy to do it again if you think you find good evidence it was Russia.

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
The other two stories were regarding Ebola and the Zika virus which I haven't looked at so far.



Let me know if you find anything interesting.

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
The one story that I can find plenty of conflicting stories with little evidence is the "fake?" civillian attack in Adra  where RT re broadcast unreliable news reports from Syrian TV, which after a quick Google search I was able to find evidence that they did repost old photos.
https://lopforum.tumblr.com/post/70411153632/alleged-adra-massacre-collated-media.
The link above came from a discussion on Reddit

This assessment of RT's work was scathing
https://www.interpretermag.com/the-massacre-in-syria-that-wasnt/

At the very least it looks like they didn't check their sources.
You could also say they were quick to broadcast fake news, and if this is due to bias I'm not sure that makes them any more reliable than any other news service?



Interesting that you're defending al-Qaeda in Syria, but RT shouldn't lie about them either, so let's talk about it.

Wikipedia consensus is that a massacre did happen in Adra.  Now, I realize the current Wikipedia consensus is also that the Douma chemical attack happened, so if you're actually trying to argue that a massacre by al-Qaeda never happened in Adra, then I'll need to do a lot more digging into the story to see if you're right or not (I don't know anything about that story other than what you provided).

Your first link says that some of the images used in the reporting of this weren't from the actual massacre.  It's actually common for the news to use B-roll footage in their news stories to help make a story more interesting, and I didn't see RT claim the footage was from Adra.  Here's a very recent example of this with the Jeffrey Toobin Zoom masturbation story (watch from 3:50 - 5:00):



Your second link also says al-Qaeda never carried out a massacre in Adra.  Are you defending that claim?  If so, I'll take a much closer look at the evidence.


--------------------
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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27000106 - 10/23/20 07:14 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

To the OP, it was the Drudge Report. Seemed to break news very quickly with its pseudo aggregate news, most of the headlines were misleading of the actual link to the story. From what I can tell, the Drudge Report has been sold and/or co- opted and now leans left.


--------------------
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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27000297 - 10/23/20 09:11 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I read that the rebel's/AlQaeda executed prisoners, yes.

What I'm saying is that RT got the body count wrong, the victims identities and they used photos that did not belong to the report they were covering.

I don't recall accusing Russia of shooting down that plane?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27000409 - 10/23/20 10:22 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I read that the rebel's/AlQaeda executed prisoners, yes.

What I'm saying is that RT got the body count wrong, the victims identities and they used photos that did not belong to the report they were covering.



I think I explained the photos in my last post.  And as far as the body count goes, they used the initial numbers provided to them by Syria at the time.

The following month, RT reported:
Quote:

The Islamic Front includes organizations that were directly involved in a massacre that killed at least 32 civilians in Adra, Lavrov said



They seem to be using the most accurate numbers they have at the time of reporting.  :shrug:


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27000473 - 10/23/20 10:55 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)



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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27000485 - 10/23/20 11:01 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

It would seem they're guilty of running stories from 'un-named military sources'  :shrug:


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27000553 - 10/23/20 11:45 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
We've discussed MH17 at length in this forum.  Happy to do it again if you think you find good evidence it was Russia.




Well, just one little thing that doesn't make sense.

Apparently the Russian separatist's Press Officer contacted  Jérôme Sessini, the French reporter in Ukraine after they shot down the plane to say 'Hey we shot down a military transport plane, come check it out'.
He sounds like someone worth listening to, yet when I did a search for his name on RT's website, they had zero.
Same with Strelkov Igor Ivanovich, not a cracker.
I would have thought those 2 names would be somewhere in RT's database of news articles, but no?
Any ideas?

https://www.rferl.org/a/when-russia-backed-forces-boasted-they-shot-down-a-ukrainian-military-plane-that-was-actually-mh17/30056279.html

This clip is from the above article


https://web.archive.org/web/20140717155906/https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27000672 - 10/24/20 01:55 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I think this is an example

https://www.rt.com/news/syria-adra-civilian-execution-289/

It would seem they're guilty of running stories from 'un-named military sources'  :shrug:



It said the Syrian military was their source.  That was probably the best source they could have had at the time, and they updated their number after about a month as shown above.


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27000731 - 10/24/20 03:44 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
We've discussed MH17 at length in this forum.  Happy to do it again if you think you find good evidence it was Russia.




Well, just one little thing that doesn't make sense.

Apparently the Russian separatist's Press Officer contacted  Jérôme Sessini, the French reporter in Ukraine after they shot down the plane to say 'Hey we shot down a military transport plane, come check it out'.
He sounds like someone worth listening to, yet when I did a search for his name on RT's website, they had zero.
Same with Strelkov Igor Ivanovich, not a cracker.
I would have thought those 2 names would be somewhere in RT's database of news articles, but no?
Any ideas?

https://www.rferl.org/a/when-russia-backed-forces-boasted-they-shot-down-a-ukrainian-military-plane-that-was-actually-mh17/30056279.html

This clip is from the above article


https://web.archive.org/web/20140717155906/https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256



Hmmm.  That's posted by Radio Free Europe, a US Government funded propaganda organization.  I'm not discounting that interview, but there is certainly some conflicting information.

Grrr, I'm really struggling right now to find the thread that was loaded with counter-evidence, but here are a few things from my memory:

The BBC interviewed locals after the incident, who insisted MH17 was shot down by military aircraft flying near it, but they permanently removed their story after the Ukrainian Government gave a different account.  Someone saved the original story though:

Note, the video below isn't working so here is the url:  https: //vimeo.com/111625523
(get rid of the space between the : and the // to watch it).



Ukraine says they did recover a Russian missile from the crash site, but it was later determined to have a serial number showing it was in the hands of Ukraine since 1986.

I had a lot more, but I can't seem to find that thread right now.

Edit:  I guess two other point is that the investigative team wouldn't let Russia participate in the investigation, and Malaysia (who owned the downed plane) said it didn't have sufficient evidence to blame Russia.


--------------------
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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/24/20 04:01 AM)


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27001569 - 10/24/20 06:56 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

No problems :thumbup: is it this one? https://www.rt.com/news/351737-mh17-downing-anniversary-accusation/

The story I linked was from Radio Free Europe but the interview with Jerome Sessini was lifted from World Press Photos.
According to the story, Jerome Sessini was contacted by the press officer from the separatist's.
Along with contacting him, the Russian news service life.ru says they were also contacted by the separatist's
https://life.ru/p/136801 before realising they'd downed a civillian aircraft.

Jerome Sessini said it was just 15 minutes after he was called by the separatist's press officer that he was called by an associate in France asking where he was, as there had been a passenger aircraft shot down.

As well as the social media report from the account of Strelkov Igor Ivanovich at least 2 other Russian news outlets ran the story with local witness accounts.
https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017
https://ria.ru/20140717/1016409306.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20140717155906/https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256

There were enough stupid questions raised by RT in the form of 'news articles' that by the end of writing this post I was doing these ones
:jonespalm:
For instance, after watching the RT article on the Ukrainian fighter jet reportedly downing MH17
...
they then tried saying it WAS from a BUK and they can prove it!


I wasn't alone though, 2 senior journo's resigned from RT in relation to the 'truth' regarding MH17 not long after Abby Martin's criticism of their coverage of Crimea.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/mar/06/rt-journalist-resigns-on-air



"Yesterday when the story broke you get the kick in your stomach when you’re going to get the facts and it’s this huge story,” Firth told Press Gazette.
“And I walked into the newsroom and they were running an eye-witness account of God-knows who the person was blaming the Ukrainian government, and it is such a volatile situation.
RT style guide Rule 1: It is ALWAYS *Ukraine's fault (*add name as applicable)," Firth tweeted.

More on RT and MH17 The world according to RT - VPRO documentary - 2015


Edited by Stable Genius (10/24/20 07:29 PM)


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27001763 - 10/24/20 09:13 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
If I get some time I'll go back through that video and take the RT challenge as I saw the NY Times highlight a couple of their news stories as fakes, not saying that they are, just saying  :thumbup:




You should do it.  Everyone here is still waiting for fake news from RT.com.

Remember, having a bias doesn't necessarily mean news fake.

For example, RT.com once said "heavily-armed NATO troops are firing their weapons near Norway's border with Russia."  The argument that this was fake news is that even though Norway shares a border with Russia, the exercises were ~800 miles away from the border.

The counter-argument was that John Bolton said "We strongly caution actors external to the Western Hemisphere against deploying military assets to Venezuela, or elsewhere in the Hemisphere, with the intent of establishing or expanding military operations.  We will consider such provocative actions as a direct threat to international peace and security in the region."

So if the US considers Venezuela too near, it it reasonable for Russia to complain about exercises in a country that shares a border.

"Near" may be a biased term, but both sides clearly have their biases.

Looking forward to you finding something!  :hatsoff:




Every independent agency that rates media outlets on credibility that I can find, rates RT and Bellincat as being "equal". They're both better than average and they both have their own agendas.


--------------------
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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27001873 - 10/24/20 10:48 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You should do it.  Everyone here is still waiting for fake news from RT.com
:hatsoff:




Ok, aside from the other examples above, I'm going to nominate ex RT journalist William Dunbar's story 13.15 - 16.20


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27002009 - 10/25/20 01:38 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
The story I linked was from Radio Free Europe but the interview with Jerome Sessini was lifted from World Press Photos.
According to the story, Jerome Sessini was contacted by the press officer from the separatist's.
Along with contacting him, the Russian news service life.ru says they were also contacted by the separatist's
https://life.ru/p/136801 before realising they'd downed a civillian aircraft.

Jerome Sessini said it was just 15 minutes after he was called by the separatist's press officer that he was called by an associate in France asking where he was, as there had been a passenger aircraft shot down.



Like I said, I'm not discounting what he said, I'm saying there are highly conflicting stories (read on).

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
As well as the social media report from the account of Strelkov Igor Ivanovich at least 2 other Russian news outlets ran the story with local witness accounts.
https://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1325017
https://ria.ru/20140717/1016409306.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20140717155906/https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256



I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here.  There WERE other aircraft shot down around that time frame including an AN-26 and an SU-25.  Your stories seem to confirm that.  :shrug:

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
There were enough stupid questions raised by RT in the form of 'news articles' that by the end of writing this post I was doing these ones
:jonespalm:
For instance, after watching the RT article on the Ukrainian fighter jet reportedly downing MH17
...
they then tried saying it WAS from a BUK and they can prove it!



Your first story confirms the eyewitness accounts I provided in my last post from the censored BBC broadcast.

Your second story shows that the missile Ukraine claims shot down the plane belonged to Ukraine.

So whichever story is correct, it points to Ukraine both ways.  :shrug:

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I wasn't alone though, 2 senior journo's resigned from RT in relation to the 'truth' regarding MH17 not long after Abby Martin's criticism of their coverage of Crimea.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/mar/06/rt-journalist-resigns-on-air





That's an unfair assessment of Abby Martin.  Don't take my word for it, take Abby's.  The New York Times even had to issue another correction to one of their stories (described in the link).

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
More on RT and MH17 The world according to RT - VPRO documentary - 2015



That one's a bit too long for me to watch unless you highlight something specific.

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Ok, aside from the other examples above, I'm going to nominate ex RT journalist William Dunbar's story 13.15 - 16.20



That wasn't a fake news story.  It was RT saying they didn't want something covered.  So the journalist voluntarily left.

Speaking of Georgia, they started the war with Russia.  Russia could easily have taken Ossetia if they wanted it.  But now I'm going off topic.


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Re: Whats your favorite Political Disinformation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27002249 - 10/25/20 08:13 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

:awkwardconfusion:

Ok, so which RT story is true?

The aircraft was shot down by a Ukrainian jet or a BUK?

Which one?
Because one story and/or both are complete fucking bullshit.


Edited by Stable Genius (10/25/20 08:43 AM)


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General Interest >> Political Discussion

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