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Why verm?
    #25682046 -

Age old question, and has been talked about for years but why vermiculite?  It saturates with water and does not provide any air space.

From a nurserymans perspective, verm is shit.  In greenhouses we prefer large ‘persalite’.  Has anyone ever made a coir sub with it?  I want to attempt it. 

I’ve seen pure coir subs, and I dislike the concept because it seems easy to over-saturate.  But why verm?  As a dry casing I get it, but what’s the purpose of verm in a mono sub? 

Anyway these are probably fleeting thoughts as my sleep medication is kicking in.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25682055 -

Verm provides air pockets. It fluffs up sub. Try it man. You dont need it but its a really nice addition imo.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: JHOVA]
    #25682059 -

I’ve always used verm as a standard protocol, but if air space is what we are after, persalite would do a superior job.  It doesn’t break down and never saturates.  Whatever I have some bags I don’t really care about and I think I’m going to give it a whirl.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25682123 -

I like verm for its ability to retain moisture.

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Re: Why verm? [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #25682181 -

From what I understand, perlite doesn't absorb water but has a big surface area. Therefore it's good for evaporation (like in a sgfc). Verm on the other hand does absorb water so is better for mixing in to a substrate to provide water over a longer period of time.


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"great things may come to those who wait, but only what's left by those who hustle"

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Re: Why verm? [Re: Bumholio]
    #25682264 -

:whathesaid:


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everything i say is a lie
The Basics-SpitBallJedi
How Frank Gets Shit Done
TLs How He Does Everything
ALL OF RR's NOTES
Damions 5050 Bucket Tek
Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek
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AMU Teks updated 4/15
BOD'S TEKS
Ziran's Teks

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Re: Why verm? [Re: swatt_haze]
    #25682348 -

Ok so this is totally conflicting info.  First, someone says verm is to provide air space.  As a nurseryman, I can tell you, it doesn’t.  It absorbs and breaks down. 

Second set of posts say it’s to do the exact opposite: it’s to hold water.  Okay, but coir absorbs tremendous amounts of water, so why verm? 

It would appear that many growers don’t actually know why they use verm save that it’s always been standard protocol. 

I don’t typically challenge standard protocol unless I have reason.  I have reason.  I don’t think it’s doing a thing in mono subs.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25682353 -

In mono subs you dont need it.  Plenty of ppl use just coir

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Re: Why verm? [Re: Guy on a buffalo] * 1
    #25682360 -

I just throw a small amount in if I accidentally made the coir too wet and get me to field capacity.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: ithikuss]
    #25682378 -

Yeah I know people have been getting great results for decades without it.  I’m going to do a comparison.  I found one post where rr said it’s to retain moisture.  I’ve been working with soils my entire life, and I’m just saying that coir holds plenty of moisture as does Peat.  Therefor I’m saying verm doesn’t seem to be serving  any purpose.  It’s non-nutritious and holds water. 

Most “what’s wrong with my mono” threads I read, it’s usually too wet.  Same thing in horticulture in my 20+ years of experience.  Always overwatering and lack of coarse material in the potting soil. 

I agree mushrooms aren’t plants but substrate moisture levels are similar for either and both do not “drink” water.  They “breathe” water vapor. 

Anyway, I’m going to try it out, I’ll update with pics on a side by side comparison.  Might be a huge flop, but I’d like to add the info to the community for posterity.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25682389 -

I would think you can't establish enough control in a single side by side comparison grow for it to mean anything.  Too many other variables that can affect the outcome.  Not trying to knock your idea..just dont think it will provide the conclusions you seek

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Re: Why verm? [Re: Guy on a buffalo]
    #25682400 -

We wiill see


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme] * 1
    #25682431 -

Verm is good to bring over-saturated coir back to field capacity, and as a filter layer for PF tek... holds no nutritional value, so isn't susceptible to harboring germinating contamination... I prep coir on the dry side and adjust FC up with tap water, but verm works well in the other direction, as described above by ithikuss


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Re: Why verm? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25682867 -

We talking about perlite my dude.  In he greenhouse biz, we use what’s called “persalite”
It’s a replacement for perlite which causes health problems. 

You can buy it all the way up to #4 size which is about half inch in size.  Standard for most nurseries I’ve worked at use #6, about .25”. 

I worked for a man who used half inch scoria (lava rock) for his larger containers and it was brilliant.  Perfect drainage. 

I’m thinking number 6 persalite for a sub.  I’m not an experienced mushroom cultivator,  so for me, learning involves trying things.  Applying knowledge and making mistakes.

We gonna find it out the hard way.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25682897 -

Found this in a thread by a dude who couldn't get verm or perlite but had found a volcanic rock called vikur. RRs post isn't specific to using verm or perlite as a bulk sub additive but kinda backs up what my understanding of the 2 are used for:shrug:


RogerRabbit said:
Let us know how the vikur works out.  The main benefit of vermiculite is it holds a lot of water, like a mineral sponge.  Test the vikur to see if it holds water and if you can take a handful and squeeze the water out.  If not, it's probably a better substitute for perlite in your terrarium.  You can make brf cakes with coir instead of vermiculite, but they don't perform quite as well.
RR



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"great things may come to those who wait, but only what's left by those who hustle"

Edited by Bumholio (12/17/18 04:19 AM)

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Re: Why verm? [Re: Bumholio] * 1
    #25682903 -

He’s talking some old tek.  Frankly, I think bodhi, pasty are better authorities on the newer teks plus they are nice about it. 

I’m talking mono subs here.  A crunchy, airy, mono.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25682922 -

Yeah, I wasnt posting it regarding any tek. I posted it because I'd said my understanding was that verm soaked up water while perlite held it on the surface for evaporation.

Like you said, run a test and post the results.


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"great things may come to those who wait, but only what's left by those who hustle"

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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25683279 -

BeefSupremeJr said:
  In greenhouses we prefer large ‘persalite’.


What is this ive googleized it and found nothing?:frown:

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Re: Why verm? [Re: kerberus]
    #25683295 -

It’s just a brand of perlite.  It’s apparently less dusty although I still wear a mask


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25683298 -

I order it from a greenhouse wholesaler.


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Re: Why verm? [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #25687641 -

kerberus said:
BeefSupremeJr said:
  In greenhouses we prefer large ‘persalite’.


What is this ive googleized it and found nothing?:frown:


BeefSupremeJr said:
It’s just a brand of perlite.  It’s apparently less dusty although I still wear a mask


:thumbup:

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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