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Mondangle
Noble Savage
Registered: 10/22/18
Posts: 73
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Sex and suffering [Re: sudly]
#25615052 - 11/14/18 06:22 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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It may feel like smooth sailing after taking a reward that wasn't earned.
But the still water is what you should fear the most.
Getting laid, getting high, or watching porn - its gonna come back to haunt you eventually.
Edited by Mondangle (11/14/18 06:31 PM)
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,243
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Re: Sex and suffering [Re: Mondangle]
#25619825 - 11/16/18 08:56 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mondangle said: It may feel like smooth sailing after taking a reward that wasn't earned
?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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triphead9428
Stranger
Registered: 02/02/17
Posts: 1,472
Loc: VA
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Sex and suffering [Re: sudly]
#25629078 - 11/21/18 01:33 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think sex is amazing. It is truly one of the most blissful feelings in the world. Without it, I feel a mental fog weighing down on me and I honestly get seriously depressed when I go too long without it. When I have it on a regular basis though, I feel happy and content with my life.
That being said, I think society seriously degrades the act. People have turned it into a measure of one another's social status and use it as a tool against one another. Women get slut shamed for having sex with too many people and men get shamed for not having sex with enough people.
I'm not an advocate of pure sexuality in the sense that religious zealots think of it, saying that sex needs to only be for procreation or only done when you're married. I'm all for sex done purely for hedonistic pleasure. I am extremely put off by artificial people however, and I have personally found that a lot of people in the hookup culture are very insincere and artificial people. Many of whom aren't even having sex for the fun of it but rather seem to be pursuing it purely to elevate their social status among others. Engaging in hookup culture is really just a message they send to everybody around them saying "I don't need these people or want them around, I just use them for temporary pleasure and then get rid of them."
If our modern day hookup culture was like the hippie free love culture in the 1960s where casual sex was had purely to enjoy the pleasure of it and to be able to connect with multiple people without being committed to one person, I'd be fine with it. But a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people who are participating in the post 1960s hookup culture are using each other and treating each other like dogshit. This attitude is especially prevalent on college campuses where frat boys are allowed to get away with toxic and misogynistic behavior every week and girls are groomed to just think that their actions are okay and normal. From what I hear, things in LA and NYC are pretty bad as well.
The way I see it, if you wanted to have sex with somebody the first time, then why wouldn't you want to have sex with them again? Did they suddenly become unattractive? The only context in which one night stands really makes sense to me is if you met on vacation and know that neither of you are going to be able to see each other again but you wanted to enjoy each other for just one night. Either that, or the sex was really fucking bad or it was done really impulsively but you know you can't keep seeing this person for whatever reason. I also make an exception for hypersexual girls who have extremely strong libidos that are difficult to control. I also make an exception for prostitutes because I respect sex work as a legitimate job and see it as largely being a very honest interaction. Those reasons seem perfectly fine with me. I'm not trying to say promiscuity is bad. But I take issue with dudebro type guys who run around trying to hump and dump as many girls as they can like they're keeping some kind of score. Or with girls, like the ones at my college, who've been convinced that behaving like the female version of a frat boy makes them "cool" and try to emulate their behaviors in every way. In essence, my experiences have shown me that the vast majority of hardcore ONS pursuers are shallow and artificial people. I only take issue with this one specific brand of promiscuity because the people I've met who act that way, have all been very unpleasant people to be around.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Great post man. Completely agree.
Quote:
triphead9428 said: That being said, I think society seriously degrades the act.
Yup. Just like it has done to all the good stuff; love, community, marriage, bonding. Our society has fucking sold out man, for cheap thrills and money.
Quote:
triphead9428 said: The way I see it, if you wanted to have sex with somebody the first time, then why wouldn't you want to have sex with them again?
This is why I've only had two ONS's. One when I was fifteen so doesn't count, and my only as an adult as the woman in question, whilst stunningly sexy, was so rigid in the bedroom it was the opposite of fun or bonding.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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that sex is potentially a wonderful experience is beyond doubt it has populated the planet and sold cars
According to Freud it is the main motivator of all behavior And evolutionary biology takes a similar view
It is for exactly this reason that it is not recommended for 'practitioners of the way'
For a few reasons: 1) it is potentially extremely distracting 2) it siphons off energy needed for changing one's whole way of relating to the world 3) and totally siphons off energy and is even more distracting once there are kids, which frequently happens 'unexpectedly'. 4) one's happiness which is already precarious, becomes even more so when it's contingencies are mega multiplied by a relationship with another vulnerable being; as the divorce rate, & blues songs demonstrate. And breakups are often very painful and can lead to depression for months or years.
If one looks at the the psychology of sexual relationships, going a little beyond copulation, there are clearly both projections going on, on both sides, and a little later various predictable relationship stages. Whole books have been written on the subject. Then beyond these patterns in the earlier years, eventually old age arrives, and there are all kinds of adjustment 2 different bodies have to make, as the ability and desire to perform wane. Then there is the whole matter of possible jealousies, fidelity, and neurosis that may surface at some point in either partners personality.
Again it is precisely that sex is potentially a wonderful experience that causes most to overlook the potential downsides, of which I have mentioned only a few.
Those men who do wish to avoid relationships, but want to get laid, have a whole other set of issues to deal with.
Even those who may have wished to be celibate at some idealistic time in their youth, may run into huge problems later in life, as the great failure of Catholicism shows.
In adolescence when hormones are raging and identity is still forming most are desperate to learn about sex and have a partner of the opposite sex. And accomplishing these goals is pivotal to developing self esteem, and sense of independence from the family of origin. Yet there is no real freedom in this "accomplishment", as it is only following "mother nature's" or biology's intent. Eating and mating are both instinctual drives, but for humans there are far more emotional minefields surrounding sexuality.
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triphead9428
Stranger
Registered: 02/02/17
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Loc: VA
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Animals don't necessarily have sex free from consequences that only humans deal with. Animals are more impulsive but not necessarily more free to just do whatever. Mating escapades in the animal kingdom look a lot like human relationships, but often time males who try to mate with females that are already attached end up getting into fights with the male that could end up with one of them getting killed. There's also the fact that animals don't have birth control so mating is much more likely to result in pregnancy. And then you have weird species where sex inevitably ends up resulting in death for either the male or the female.
If anything, humans are better at managing the potential consequences that could result from sexual activity than most species are. Unless we're talking about bonobos obviously. That being said, I don't think humans have things remotely figured out either.
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
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yup its rough all over
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,123
Loc: USA
Last seen: 16 days, 8 hours
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Quote:
triphead9428 said:
The way I see it, if you wanted to have sex with somebody the first time, then why wouldn't you want to have sex with them again?
Some people want some sexual physical contact but with boundaries that exclude an ongoing intimate emotional relationship. This attractive boundary can be a big part of the motivation for infidelity, hookers, ONS.
Chronic promiscuity is a sign of intense suffering. Insatiable sexual needs are a symptom of deep emotional turmoil. It's not so much about orgasms.
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CyGuy1
Stranger
Registered: 11/22/18
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Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Sex, IS wonderful.
The cause for all suffering is desire; to want.
Sex can be the single most uniting action two individuals can engage in.
Desire, I think, is where this conversation keeps drifing. The question is simple. And yes, Sex is good. It is healthy.
Desire, Wanting; these are the sources of suffering. That is different from the verb; sex. Reciprocated desire, is desire fulfilled. That is not the same as unrequited desire, which is more common than the latter. And obsessed upon, can become unhealthy.
No, I think under the right conditions, sex is beautiful, life confirming, healthy and a very good thing.
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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Re: Sex and suffering [Re: CyGuy1]
#25638581 - 11/25/18 03:46 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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That was certainly Wilhelm Reich's take on it.
His theories are very interesting. And the therapy powerful. Later Bioenergetics was an offshoot. At least some of his books are quite readable and interesting even for laymen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich
... "His writing influenced generations of intellectuals; he coined the phrase "the sexual revolution" and according to one historian acted as its midwife.[7]"...
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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Of course Tim Leary used to say sex on LSD was great, as he was a preacher of how great acid was, and sex is used to sell everything in the USA. In India, Japan, or Thailand (etc.) of course he would have been laughed at, but in the USA, no one batted an eyelash. Why would he have been laughed at?
Because obviously sex doesn't do what acid, does...or what serious meditation is supposed to do eventually. And from the point of view of that state, sex is not a path to realizing relief from suffering. So whether or not one thinks sex and suffering are related, may depend on whether or not one understands the teaching that nothing in the phenomenal world is ultimately satisfying, etc., and attachment to such things is therefore misguided.
So at one level it is frequently enjoyable, but from another point of view since it is so often rather all consuming of attention and energy it has a potential to be very distracting, and thus interfere with the meditative agenda.
Its not just the the sex act - it also affects, how one dresses, how one looks at others, how one talks, how one dreams, where one hangs out, how others look at oneself, how others treat you, etc. - in other words it potentially permeates one's whole life, whether one is fully conscious of it doing so or not. Especially if a relationship ends and one feels one needs a new one.
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