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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Acuriousmycologist]
    #25637089 - 11/24/18 07:55 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Acuriousmycologist said:
My kids have a lot of freedom of will. When they fuck up with how they use it tho, I intervene and help them. Because I have that power. Because I can.





It's certainly a point, though I can't help but think of the saying which suggests that children and people in general should be left to their own devices to make the mistakes....and learn from them.

Admittedly, this isn't always going to be the best solution and it's a figurative, 'School of Hard Knocks' approach, but it's food for thought nonetheless bearing in mind that the world might well be our 'canvas' in which we're left to manage challenges and become stronger as beings who are left to cope and grow from our efforts in coping. :thumbup:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (11/24/18 07:56 PM)


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InvisibleAcuriousmycologist
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #25637102 - 11/24/18 08:02 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Acuriousmycologist said:
My kids have a lot of freedom of will. When they fuck up with how they use it tho, I intervene and help them. Because I have that power. Because I can.





It's certainly a point, though I can't help but think of the saying which suggests that children and people in general should be left to their own devices to make the mistakes....and learn from them.

Admittedly, this isn't always going to be the best solution and it's a figurative, 'School of Hard Knocks' approach, but it's food for thought nonetheless bearing in mind that the world might well be our 'canvas' in which we're left to manage challenges and become stronger as beings who are left to cope and grow from our efforts in coping. :thumbup:




I agree to some degree about learning through experience. But people generally learn faster with guidance and support to understand things rather than repeated negative experiences. Also, repeated negative experiences can have negative consequences in terms of emotional/ cognitive outcomes that can sometimes be avoided by providing guidance and support.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Acuriousmycologist]
    #25637113 - 11/24/18 08:07 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Acuriousmycologist said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Acuriousmycologist said:
My kids have a lot of freedom of will. When they fuck up with how they use it tho, I intervene and help them. Because I have that power. Because I can.





It's certainly a point, though I can't help but think of the saying which suggests that children and people in general should be left to their own devices to make the mistakes....and learn from them.

Admittedly, this isn't always going to be the best solution and it's a figurative, 'School of Hard Knocks' approach, but it's food for thought nonetheless bearing in mind that the world might well be our 'canvas' in which we're left to manage challenges and become stronger as beings who are left to cope and grow from our efforts in coping. :thumbup:




I agree to some degree about learning through experience. But people generally learn faster with guidance and support to understand things rather than repeated negative experiences. Also, repeated negative experiences can have negative consequences in terms of emotional/ cognitive outcomes that can sometimes be avoided by providing guidance and support.




That's true, but I feel if we witnessed a form or most importantly, an apparent form of divine intervention, free-will and creativity would be somewhat compromised and then people would fall victim to dependability. 

Maybe some believers would argue that divine aid is present in the world, but it's just not made apparent from that very reason.

On the other hand, the non-believer has a firm stake to claim that because the help isn't apparent, this is conclusive evidence that it simply doesn't exist. :thumbup:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (11/24/18 08:09 PM)


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OfflineBLZbubIII
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #25637122 - 11/24/18 08:10 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

BLZbubIII said:
Actually not setting out to be an asshat here.





I'm still not sure what you refer to and the topic is otherwise flowing, so your consideration is appreciated. :thumbup:




:whiteflag:  :bow2:  :nyan:

Seriously, just trying to get to 50 posts and that cash bonanza that ensues.


Edited by BLZbubIII (11/24/18 08:13 PM)


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InvisibleAcuriousmycologist
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #25637126 - 11/24/18 08:14 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Acuriousmycologist said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Acuriousmycologist said:
My kids have a lot of freedom of will. When they fuck up with how they use it tho, I intervene and help them. Because I have that power. Because I can.





It's certainly a point, though I can't help but think of the saying which suggests that children and people in general should be left to their own devices to make the mistakes....and learn from them.

Admittedly, this isn't always going to be the best solution and it's a figurative, 'School of Hard Knocks' approach, but it's food for thought nonetheless bearing in mind that the world might well be our 'canvas' in which we're left to manage challenges and become stronger as beings who are left to cope and grow from our efforts in coping. :thumbup:




I agree to some degree about learning through experience. But people generally learn faster with guidance and support to understand things rather than repeated negative experiences. Also, repeated negative experiences can have negative consequences in terms of emotional/ cognitive outcomes that can sometimes be avoided by providing guidance and support.




That's true, but I feel if we witnessed a form or most importantly, an apparent form of divine intervention, free-will and creativity would be somewhat compromised and then people would fall victim to dependability. 

Maybe some believers would argue that divine aid is present in the world, but it's just not made apparent from that very reason.

On the other hand, the non-believer has a firm stake to claim that because the help isn't apparent, this is conclusive evidence that it simply doesn't exist. :thumbup:




:smile: Same evidence, different interpretations and conclusions. Good point re dependency.


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: alt.of.gen] * 1
    #25639147 - 11/25/18 08:53 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I am currently agnostic.

However:
I believe Jesus existed.   

I believe his apostles believed they witnessed him risen from the dead.

I believe we have Pauline epistles, with verified authorship, confirming the eyewitness testimony of the apostles as well as his own.


I am extremely skeptical by nature, and I want to be entirely sure before I commit to beliefs.  I don't want to believe something because I want to, or because I fear the consequences of not believing.

I don't want Christianity to be true, I like fornication, getting drunk, and other things seen as sin.

But I also want to know the truth.  That's why I changed from strong atheism to weak agnosticism, I realized I was making a knowledge claim I could not support.

That is why I am studying Apologetics, and Christian apologetics in particular, as it has by far the most supporting evidence of anything I've studied with the fewest problems.

The creation of the universe from nothing intrigues me, the multiplicity of cosmic constants fine-tuned for life fascinates me, and the creation of life from non-life puzzles me. 

The documented cases of near death experiences with confirmatory evidences of out-of-body observations in combination with the aforementioned facets leads me to further study... as does my personal explorations in the field of instrumental trans-communication (documented by my YouTube channel "flickedbic"; a failed debunking of an unexplainable phenomena evidencing non-physical intelligent communication.

I am an agnostic, but a weak agnostic who believes truth can be known but must be actively sought despite faulty preconceptions and contrary predispositions.


The most interesting apologetical arguments for me have been the Cosmological argument, the teleological argument, the origin of life from non-life, the multiple eyewitness testimonies of a risen Jesus by the verified authorship of Paul, near death experiences with verified out-of-body observations such as those published in a study by the esteemed international medical journal The Lancet (Gary Habermas, of "The Minimal Facts Argument for the Resurrection" fame, has put out further examples of these NDE verified OBEs), my own forays into instrumental trans-communication evidencing non-physical intelligent communication, and recently I've become interested in the evidences for fulfilled biblical prophecy as well, such as the Daniel 70 week prophecy.


Edited by flickedbic (11/26/18 07:47 PM)


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? (moved) [Re: alt.of.gen]
    #25639821 - 11/26/18 09:25 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

This thread was moved from The Pub.

Reason:
Better suited here.


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Organic_Magic] * 1
    #25641896 - 11/27/18 06:23 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Organic_Magic said:
Quote:

sprinkles said:
If I had the energy to explain to you why that is a bad idea I would. 


well what if you were God and sacrificed your only child on behalf/for good of all people?  only to have them reject his death and mock you.  It would feel like a slap in the face wouldn't it?  The gracious and polite thing to do when someone gives you a gift is to accept it and say "thank you."

logically..
accepting Christ you are out nothing.  lets say you die, God and Christ turns out to not to be true, you still would have lived a good life.  BUT if you reject Christ and it IS true, then you might be very sorry.  Its better to be safe than sorry I think.




This is a huuuge fallacy. Its not just two choices, you forget that there are other religions that have hells. What happens when you put all your cards on jesus and then you die and the muslims were right? Your fucked.

If i was god i wouldn't sacrifice shit, i would just make a better world that doesnt require dumb ass things like blood sacrifice and genital mutilation...or child rapists.






read the Bible.  then I will have a high quality conversation with you

please don't hate God because your not penis is not circumsized.  if you actually read the Bible you know what circumcision actually means, it is repeated over and over again.  don't speak on things you have no knowledge of.  learn first, then open your mouth so people will then value your opinion


--------------------
welcome to my world http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/326


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OfflineOrganic_Magic
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: sprinkles] * 2
    #25642202 - 11/27/18 09:15 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
Quote:

Organic_Magic said:
Quote:

sprinkles said:
If I had the energy to explain to you why that is a bad idea I would. 


well what if you were God and sacrificed your only child on behalf/for good of all people?  only to have them reject his death and mock you.  It would feel like a slap in the face wouldn't it?  The gracious and polite thing to do when someone gives you a gift is to accept it and say "thank you."

logically..
accepting Christ you are out nothing.  lets say you die, God and Christ turns out to not to be true, you still would have lived a good life.  BUT if you reject Christ and it IS true, then you might be very sorry.  Its better to be safe than sorry I think.




This is a huuuge fallacy. Its not just two choices, you forget that there are other religions that have hells. What happens when you put all your cards on jesus and then you die and the muslims were right? Your fucked.

If i was god i wouldn't sacrifice shit, i would just make a better world that doesnt require dumb ass things like blood sacrifice and genital mutilation...or child rapists.






read the Bible.  then I will have a high quality conversation with you

please don't hate God because your not penis is not circumsized.  if you actually read the Bible you know what circumcision actually means, it is repeated over and over again.  don't speak on things you have no knowledge of.  learn first, then open your mouth so people will then value your opinion




Okay bud, you obviously haven't read the thread because, as stated, I have read the entire bible cover to cover (which is more than most Christians will ever do) and was preparing to be a minister. I have also had a girlfriend who spoke fluid Arabic (she lived in Jordan for 10 years) read me the Quran translated from her native tongue.

Also, I do not hate God. He is a fictional character in my mind and doesn't even warrant an emotional response from me much less a hateful one. My penis is circumcised (you spelled it wrong btw) due to my parents not knowing any better at the time and they have since apologized for it because I had no say in the matter of my bodily alteration. It's a disgusting practice as its basically god hazing the new converts. Enter a covenant and sacrifice your penis to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_male_circumcision

I don't think your capable of a high quality conversation to be very honest with you. Nor do I think you are worth my time. You make a lot of assumptions about me right out of the gate and that is a good sign of someone who doesn't know how to debate properly.

It was a nice try though...

                            *EDIT*

I don't need, or care to have, my opinions validated by you or anyone else on the shroomery. I post only for my own amusement and to learn. Have you ever heard of psychological projection?


--------------------
:pipesmoke:Its all fun and games until mushrooms make you gay:pipesmoke:




            click and learn.

Bod's simplified cultivation methods
Got side pins?


Edited by Organic_Magic (11/27/18 09:19 AM)


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Organic_Magic] * 1
    #25642246 - 11/27/18 09:47 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

you are a liar.  I refuse to engage with people I know lie so I have nothing more to add.


--------------------
welcome to my world http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/326


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OfflineOrganic_Magic
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: sprinkles] * 1
    #25642294 - 11/27/18 10:12 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
you are a liar.  I refuse to engage with people I know lie so I have nothing more to add.




Well then I thank you for that riveting conversation and I accept your admission of defeat!

You realize every person has told a lie at some point in time and so you would be barred from engaging a single other human being?

Go read your bible "sprinkles".


--------------------
:pipesmoke:Its all fun and games until mushrooms make you gay:pipesmoke:




            click and learn.

Bod's simplified cultivation methods
Got side pins?


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Organic_Magic] * 1
    #25644505 - 11/28/18 09:16 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

If people thousands of years from now find a copy of moby dick, does that make the story true?


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #25645100 - 11/28/18 02:44 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
you are a liar.  I refuse to engage with people I know lie so I have nothing more to add.




Your doubt can certainly be appreciated.

Simply circumvent that which seems untrue, resist being tainted and continue to nourish the good spirit - from whichever books reward it. :thumbup:


Quote:

flickedbic said:
I don't want Christianity to be true, I like fornication, getting drunk, and other things seen as sin.





Does Christianity, however, dictate that these 'sins' will result in the soul being cast into a literal, external 'hell' upon death?  Is there any 'wiggle room' to consider that it might be figurative, or is it sternly specific?

I understand the principle (that 'Sin' is destructive) to suggest that these things labelled as 'Sin' simply pollute the mind and create a bottleneck against the potential creative, divine mind in life.  Thus, we consequently create 'Hell' - on Earth :thumbup:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (11/28/18 02:52 PM)


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #25645197 - 11/28/18 03:27 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

sprinkles said:
you are a liar.  I refuse to engage with people I know lie so I have nothing more to add.




Your doubt can certainly be appreciated.

Simply circumvent that which seems untrue, resist being tainted and continue to nourish the good spirit - from whichever books reward it. :thumbup:


Quote:

flickedbic said:
I don't want Christianity to be true, I like fornication, getting drunk, and other things seen as sin.





Does Christianity, however, dictate that these 'sins' will result in the soul being cast into a literal, external 'hell' upon death?  Is there any 'wiggle room' to consider that it might be figurative, or is it sternly specific?

I understand the principle (that 'Sin' is destructive) to suggest that these things labelled as 'Sin' simply pollute the mind and create a bottleneck against the potential creative, divine mind in life.  Thus, we consequently create 'Hell' - on Earth :thumbup:



Yeah! I like this! Aren't Catholics absolved of "all sin" if they are baptized and/or repent, or say a certain amount of hail mary's etc.? So in essence one can be a mass murderer, pedophile, or any number of vile human badness and as long as one accepts the lord into ones heart and repents, one is saved from "hell"?


--------------------


Edited by tyrannicalrex (11/28/18 03:30 PM)


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: Do you believe in God and Jesus Christ as our savior? [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 2
    #25645446 - 11/28/18 05:25 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

That's what they say.  The Bible, however, doesn't say anything about praying to Mary to erase sins.  Many Catholics seem very lost, and probably are.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"
Matthew 7

True repentance isn't something to do on Sundays while living like the devil starting on Mondays.


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