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OfflineXUL
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: christopera]
    #25627480 - 11/20/18 11:37 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

The separation exists in the differentiating definitions of "accidentally" and "purposely."


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TRUMP 2020


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: XUL] * 2
    #25627528 - 11/20/18 12:00 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
I don't condone bombing civilians. Show me sufficient evidence that America purposely murders innocent civilians and I will take a look.



There is ample evidence of reckless endangerment. This is a close look at nine drone strikes, and the leaked video Collateral Murder another infamous example.

If I leave bombs to explode in areas where it is highly likely to cause civilian casualties, does it matter if my intention wasn't to purposely murder innocent civilians? The reckless endangerment is enough. This is what the USA bombing campaigns amount to. Terrorism.


Quote:

Arming rebels is fine as long as the cause is just.



Do you think the cause justifies the means? Many of the graduates of the SOA have gone on to commit human rights violations, including genocide.

Do you think that providing material support to right-wing rebels attempting to overtake a democratically elected left-wing government is a just cause?




Quote:

XUL said:
That would be exactly where politicians, and people like you and me, disagree.

So, leaders are going forward with the terrorists term now. Personally, I support it.

Even North Korea accepts aid when they need it. His people are suffering so he can prove a political point that may or may not be true.

Socialism!



To be clear, the push is for Venezuela to be recognized as a state sponsor of terrorism, citing Venezuela’s alleged ties to Lebanese Hezbollah, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, and other groups.

No one is talking about starvation among the Venezuelan people to be an act of terrorism except you.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: relic] * 1
    #25627532 - 11/20/18 12:02 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

relic said:
got a new server at work and can't access the article.  any reasons listed as support for this push by rubio and others?

edit:  i'll look other places for info, too.



This is the extent of justification provided by the article:

Quote:

“support for acts of international terrorism”

Republican lawmakers led by Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) have pushed for the designation, citing Venezuela’s alleged ties to Lebanese Hezbollah, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, and other groups.




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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 3
    #25627651 - 11/20/18 01:05 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

I think it would be quite ironic to put Venezuela on this incredibly short list, without including Saudi Arabia, or Israel, as one of you mentioned earlier. Rubio would like to include Venezuela on this list, because he doesn't like their politics (leftist politics), not because of any support they have given to terrorist organizations.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Every one of you should see this video.
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OfflineXUL
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25627671 - 11/20/18 01:13 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

It's a just cause if the places are ran like Venezuela. People are starving to death while the leader declines aid, which is a death sentence to many people.



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TRUMP 2020


Edited by XUL (11/20/18 01:15 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: XUL]
    #25627684 - 11/20/18 01:19 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
It's a just cause if the places are ran like Venezuela. People are starving to death while the leader declines aid, which is a death sentence to many people.






What about places that are ran like Saudi Arabia?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25627691 - 11/20/18 01:23 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

thanks much, shiva.  pretty flimsy stuff w/out any other filler.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25627694 - 11/20/18 01:23 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe you could fill me in with some references?

I am not too aware of what's going on in Saudi Arabia as pertaining to economics (not the K murder).


--------------------
TRUMP 2020


Edited by XUL (11/20/18 01:24 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: XUL]
    #25627783 - 11/20/18 01:56 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
Maybe you could fill me in with some references?

I am not too aware of what's going on in Saudi Arabia as pertaining to economics (not the K murder).




I'm referring to their support of terrorist organizations, which is the reason cited for putting Venezuela on the list.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 3
    #25627803 - 11/20/18 02:02 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Saudi Arabia is properly subordinate to the American empire, therefore they don't get scorn and intervention.

The word 'independent' has taken on a particular pronunciation lately when referring to international politics, it is now pronounced 'terrorist'.


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: XUL] * 2
    #25627853 - 11/20/18 02:32 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
First, do you believe that starving your country is terrorism?



Yes, and I believe those responsible should be held accountable.

To Understand Venezuela’s Crisis, Look to the Past … and the CIA
Quote:

The CIA long ago confessed to years of maneuvering to destabilize the Allende government and to coordinate the forces that would bring it to an illegal and violent end. There is ample evidence now that just such a plot is underway in Venezuela today, and that it is very likely to succeed.




The United States Destroys Venezuela’s Economy
Quote:

Corporate media in this country deliver a steady onslaught of anti-Venezuelan propaganda. Unfortunately the propaganda has succeeded to a large degree.

It is sanctions against the Venezuelan government and its people that have created hyperinflation, hunger, and a devastated health care system that was once the envy of that region.

When the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC and the rest report on Venezuela’s depredations they never reveal that it is the United States which brought about it crisis condition.

What have Venezuelans done to bring on this draconian punishment? They have dared to vote for socialist governments...

Now the social media corporations have colluded with government to make certain that anyone who is interested in the Venezuelan perspective will be isolated as well. Facebook temporarily removed the Venezuela Analysis page claiming violations of terms of service.




US-Led Economic War, Not Socialism, Is Tearing Venezuela Apart
Quote:

Millions of Venezuelans have seen their living conditions vastly improved through the Bolivarian process. The problems plaguing the Venezuelan economy are not due to some inherent fault in socialism, but to artificially low oil prices and sabotage by forces hostile to the revolution.




The Other Explanation for Venezuela’s Economic Crisis
Quote:

...business sectors friendly to the opposition are waging an aggressive and protracted campaign of economic sabotage to deliberately stir up social unrest to destabilize and discredit the governing Chavista bloc and in the ensuing chaos bring about an end to the PSUV government and the installation of a new one made up of opposition parties. The central pillars of the economic war thesis are that these hostile sectors have been engaging in acts such as hoarding and price speculation and have purposely generated scarcity in pursuit of calculated chaos.




Venezuela to Investigate Food Giant Kraft Heinz for 'Sabotage'
Quote:

...Heinz employees reportedly claimed the company’s factories are capable of operating at full capacity to meet the country’s shortage of certain food items—but that the owners do not want that to happen.

The Venezuelan government claims private corporations are deliberately hoarding food items to manufacture shortages ahead of parliamentary elections




Venezuelan Economic Crisis: The Real Cause is Not Socialism
Quote:

it does not sit well with the US that a nation in South America (the backyard of its Empire) like Venezuela can prosper as a sovereign socialist republic. The US and its multinational corporations want a big slice of the pie of the gasoline profits, which Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro have refused to give. As self-confessed economic hitman John Perkins described decades ago in books, presentations and interviews, when a “recalcitrant” nation fails to play ball with the US, it activates its various branches to rein them in.

...the Brookings website features an article Venezuela: A path out of crisis which recommends a 5-point destabilization plan




The United States’ Hand in Undermining Democracy in Venezuela
Quote:

The Trump administration’s foreign policy toward Venezuela includes supporting a boycott of Sunday’s elections in Venezuela, hinting at the possibility of a coup, and enacting harmful economic sanctions.

It used to be generally frowned upon to openly call for military coups and U.S. intervention in Latin America. Not anymore. At least not when it comes to Venezuela...

In recent months, opinion pieces suggesting that a coup or a foreign military intervention in Venezuela might be a good thing...  rarely does anyone point out that this is an insane debate to be having in the first place, particularly regarding a country where elections occur frequently and are, with few exceptions, considered to be competitive and transparent.

Trump’s unilateral and illegal financial embargo – which cuts Venezuela off from most financial markets – has had two major consequences, both of which entail increased economic hardship for the Venezuelan people. First, it causes even greater shortages of essential goods, including food and medicine. Second, it makes economic recovery nearly impossible, since the government cannot borrow or restructure its foreign debt, and in some cases even carry out normal import transactions, including for medicines.







Quote:

XUL said:
...do you believe socialism in Venezuela is working?



It can't with all the US intervention mentioned above.

Quote:

XUL said:
...guess who you will find near the food caches? Armed guards.



I've seen armed guards in the US in banks and jewelry stores.  Does that mean that they aren't allowing Americans to have money or jewelry?  :flowstone:

Stop being so gullible XUL.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #25628089 - 11/20/18 04:14 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Socialism doesn't work.  Period.  That's been proven, except where it hasn't been proven, like the European welfare states, but pretty much everywhere else and especially South America, where America has been guaranteeing that socialism doesn't work for many decades now,  its been proven.

Venezuela is merely the latest example.

International capital can shut down the economy of countries that don't obey it's dictates, so if some nation tries to stop paying fealty to it's financial overlords, many of whom are in America's ruling class incidentally, it triggers this enforcement mechanism.



--------------------
 

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky


Edited by VroomerMcZoomers (11/20/18 04:22 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: XUL]
    #25628152 - 11/20/18 04:38 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
The separation exists in the differentiating definitions of "accidentally" and "purposely."




In other words, whatever XUL deems as preconceived. What a brilliant definition, I see no downsides.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25628395 - 11/20/18 06:09 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Goddamn Falcon :justastonishing:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25628652 - 11/20/18 07:45 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks buddy.  I appreciate it.

:raisemyglass:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25629556 - 11/21/18 09:33 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Jewelry is not edible.

:cookiemonster:

But keep on rooting for socialism.

We all can see your Noble values now. Values like in Venezuela -- purposefully starving your populace for political gain.

The left has no shame.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25629569 - 11/21/18 09:42 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
Jewelry is not edible.

:cookiemonster:

But keep on rooting for socialism.

We all can see your Noble values now. Values like in Venezuela -- purposefully starving your populace for political gain.

The left has no shame.




You honestly should read the sources Falcon presented, if you care about getting to the truth of the matter. I would hope that's what we're all trying to do around here. The situation in Venezuela honestly cannot be blamed on Socialism.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25629573 - 11/21/18 09:43 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Sure it can.


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TRUMP 2020


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: XUL]
    #25629582 - 11/21/18 09:48 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

XUL said:
Sure it can.




How so?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Rubio pushes for Venezuela to be placed on US state terrorism sponsors list [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25629583 - 11/21/18 09:48 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Even if sanctions hurt Venezuela, starving your own people is no excuse.

The leader is a murderer and fal defends him.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020


Edited by XUL (11/21/18 09:48 AM)


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