Quote:

The Trump administration is preparing to add Venezuela to the U.S. list of state sponsors of terrorism in what would be a dramatic escalation against the socialist government of Nicolás Maduro, according to U.S. officials and internal government emails.

The list is reserved for governments accused of repeatedly providing “support for acts of international terrorism” and includes only Iran, North Korea, Sudan and Syria.

Republican lawmakers led by Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) have pushed for the designation

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I guess that's what you get for leaning too far socialist.  I don't think we're considering Israel or Saudi Arabia for the list. 

Quote:

The Venezuelan government has tried to cover up the extent of the crisis by enforcing a near-total blackout of health statistics, and by creating a culture in which doctors are often afraid to register cases and deaths that may be associated with the government’s failures.

Venezuela has been shuddering since its economy began to collapse in 2014. Riots and protests over the lack of affordable food, excruciating long lines for basic provisions, soldiers posted outside bakeries and angry crowds ransacking grocery stores have rattled cities, providing a telling, public display of the depths of the crisis.

President Nicolás Maduro has acknowledged that people are hungry in Venezuela, but he has refused to accept international aid, often saying that Venezuela’s economic problems are caused by foreign adversaries like the United States, which he says is waging an economic war against his country.

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The Ecstatic said:

Probably

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XUL said:

First, do you believe that starving your country is terrorism?

Second, is it terrorism for Maduro to decline international food aid for his people while they are starving?

Three, do you believe socialism in Venezuela is working?

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shivas.wisdom said:

XUL said:

First, do you believe that starving your country is terrorism?

Second, is it terrorism for Maduro to decline international food aid for his people while they are starving?

Three, do you believe socialism in Venezuela is working?

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First, no; terrorism should remained defined as 'violence and intimidation in pursuit of political aims'. I believe that starvation among Venezuelan citizens is a result of poor government management, and not an attempt to achieve political aims.

Two, no; see above. It is stubborn, selfish, and cruel, but not terrorism.

Three, I believe an economy that is completely dependent on the export of a single commodity is failing. How socialistic or capitalistic Venezuela is doesn't matter in the face of their complete lack of economic diversification.

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shivas.wisdom said:

Did I defend it? I merely don't believe it qualifies as terrorism.

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XUL said:

I don't condone bombing civilians. Show me sufficient evidence that America purposely murders innocent civilians and I will take a look.

Arming rebels is fine as long as the cause is just.

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XUL said:

I don't condone bombing civilians. Show me sufficient evidence that America purposely murders innocent civilians and I will take a look.

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Quote:

Arming rebels is fine as long as the cause is just.

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XUL said:

That would be exactly where politicians, and people like you and me, disagree.

So, leaders are going forward with the terrorists term now. Personally, I support it.

Even North Korea accepts aid when they need it. His people are suffering so he can prove a political point that may or may not be true.

Socialism!

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relic said:

got a new server at work and can't access the article.  any reasons listed as support for this push by rubio and others?

edit:  i'll look other places for info, too.

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Quote:

“support for acts of international terrorism”

Republican lawmakers led by Sen. Marco Rubio (Fla.) have pushed for the designation, citing Venezuela’s alleged ties to Lebanese Hezbollah, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, and other groups.

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XUL said:

It's a just cause if the places are ran like Venezuela. People are starving to death while the leader declines aid, which is a death sentence to many people.

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XUL said:

Maybe you could fill me in with some references?

I am not too aware of what's going on in Saudi Arabia as pertaining to economics (not the K murder).

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XUL said:

First, do you believe that starving your country is terrorism?

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Quote:

The CIA long ago confessed to years of maneuvering to destabilize the Allende government and to coordinate the forces that would bring it to an illegal and violent end. There is ample evidence now that just such a plot is underway in Venezuela today, and that it is very likely to succeed.

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Quote:

Corporate media in this country deliver a steady onslaught of anti-Venezuelan propaganda. Unfortunately the propaganda has succeeded to a large degree.

It is sanctions against the Venezuelan government and its people that have created hyperinflation, hunger, and a devastated health care system that was once the envy of that region.

When the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC and the rest report on Venezuela’s depredations they never reveal that it is the United States which brought about it crisis condition.

What have Venezuelans done to bring on this draconian punishment? They have dared to vote for socialist governments...

Now the social media corporations have colluded with government to make certain that anyone who is interested in the Venezuelan perspective will be isolated as well. Facebook temporarily removed the Venezuela Analysis page claiming violations of terms of service.

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Quote:

Millions of Venezuelans have seen their living conditions vastly improved through the Bolivarian process. The problems plaguing the Venezuelan economy are not due to some inherent fault in socialism, but to artificially low oil prices and sabotage by forces hostile to the revolution.

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Quote:

...business sectors friendly to the opposition are waging an aggressive and protracted campaign of economic sabotage to deliberately stir up social unrest to destabilize and discredit the governing Chavista bloc and in the ensuing chaos bring about an end to the PSUV government and the installation of a new one made up of opposition parties. The central pillars of the economic war thesis are that these hostile sectors have been engaging in acts such as hoarding and price speculation and have purposely generated scarcity in pursuit of calculated chaos.

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Quote:

...Heinz employees reportedly claimed the company’s factories are capable of operating at full capacity to meet the country’s shortage of certain food items—but that the owners do not want that to happen.

The Venezuelan government claims private corporations are deliberately hoarding food items to manufacture shortages ahead of parliamentary elections

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Quote:

it does not sit well with the US that a nation in South America (the backyard of its Empire) like Venezuela can prosper as a sovereign socialist republic. The US and its multinational corporations want a big slice of the pie of the gasoline profits, which Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro have refused to give. As self-confessed economic hitman John Perkins described decades ago in books, presentations and interviews, when a “recalcitrant” nation fails to play ball with the US, it activates its various branches to rein them in.

...the Brookings website features an article Venezuela: A path out of crisis which recommends a 5-point destabilization plan

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Quote:

The Trump administration’s foreign policy toward Venezuela includes supporting a boycott of Sunday’s elections in Venezuela, hinting at the possibility of a coup, and enacting harmful economic sanctions.

It used to be generally frowned upon to openly call for military coups and U.S. intervention in Latin America. Not anymore. At least not when it comes to Venezuela...

In recent months, opinion pieces suggesting that a coup or a foreign military intervention in Venezuela might be a good thing...  rarely does anyone point out that this is an insane debate to be having in the first place, particularly regarding a country where elections occur frequently and are, with few exceptions, considered to be competitive and transparent.

Trump’s unilateral and illegal financial embargo – which cuts Venezuela off from most financial markets – has had two major consequences, both of which entail increased economic hardship for the Venezuelan people. First, it causes even greater shortages of essential goods, including food and medicine. Second, it makes economic recovery nearly impossible, since the government cannot borrow or restructure its foreign debt, and in some cases even carry out normal import transactions, including for medicines.

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XUL said:

...do you believe socialism in Venezuela is working?

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XUL said:

...guess who you will find near the food caches? Armed guards.

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I've seen armed guards in the US in banks and jewelry stores.  Does that mean that they aren't allowing Americans to have money or jewelry? 

Stop being so gullible XUL.

XUL said:

The separation exists in the differentiating definitions of "accidentally" and "purposely."

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XUL said:

Jewelry is not edible.



But keep on rooting for socialism.

We all can see your Noble values now. Values like in Venezuela -- purposefully starving your populace for political gain.

The left has no shame.

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XUL said:

Sure it can.

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XUL said:

Even if sanctions hurt Venezuela, starving your own people is no excuse.

The leader is a murderer and fal defends him.

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XUL said:

Over regulation, government take over of private sectors, dictatorship, dwindling exports, starvation, crime, repeat.

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Bigbadwooof said:

XUL said:

Over regulation, government take over of private sectors, dictatorship, dwindling exports, starvation, crime, repeat.

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Those are some fancy key words, can you relate them back to the situation?

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XUL said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

XUL said:

...guess who you will find near the food caches? Armed guards.

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I've seen armed guards in the US in banks and jewelry stores.  Does that mean that they aren't allowing Americans to have money or jewelry? 

Stop being so gullible XUL.

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Jewelry is not edible.

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I'm trying REALLY hard to understand your point.  Guards are used to prevent theft.  Are you saying that because there is a food shortage in Venezuela, food shouldn't be protected from theft?  That thieves should be able to take what they want and hoard it?

Or what is your point here?  Seriously, I am desperately trying to understand your logic here.

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

But keep on rooting for socialism.

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I posted many articles explaining what's going on in Venezuela, which have nothing to do with rooting for or against Socialism.  They're simply explaining why socialism can't work there (the US won't allow it to work).

Think about this though - if socialism is so bad, why does the US always takes great measures to ensure it fails, if you believe it would just fail on its own?

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

We all can see your Noble values now. Values like in Venezuela -- purposefully starving your populace for political gain.

The left has no shame.

---

So you believe that preventing theft of food is "starving people"?    Ok, I'll send some people looking for food to your house to take whatever they like.  If you try to stop them, you're clearly trying to starve them and you are a terrorist by your own logic.

You really need to think a little harder about what you post.

XUL said:

Even if sanctions hurt Venezuela, starving your own people is no excuse.

The leader is a murderer and fal defends him.

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Preventing food theft to thugs is not "starving your own people".  Jesus Christ XUL. 

XUL said:

I believe fal has some points, but there is more to it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/venezuelas-economic-collapse-is-linked-to-its-socialist-policies//amp

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The Ecstatic said:

Good thing your life doesn’t depend on it

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

XUL said:

Even if sanctions hurt Venezuela, starving your own people is no excuse.

The leader is a murderer and fal defends him.

---

Preventing food theft to thugs is not "starving your own people".  Jesus Christ XUL. 

XUL said:

I believe fal has some points, but there is more to it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fee.org/articles/venezuelas-economic-collapse-is-linked-to-its-socialist-policies//amp

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Thank you!  We should always look at different viewpoints!

The author of your article states that many people have called Maduro a failure because Venezuela went from being South America's richest country under Chavez, to a struggling country today.  He says many people blame this on Maduro not following Chavez's socialist policies.  But he believe that Maduro IS, in fact, following Chavez's policies, and that the failure should be blamed on the impacts of socialism finally kicking in.

He goes on to admit that what really hurt Madero was the steep decline in oil prices and associated revenues, which were very good under Chavez.

While he is right about that, he fails to talk about why oil prices went down so much.  My aricles get into that.

The US wanted to hurt oil producing countries like Venezuela, Russia, and Iran, so they convinced our buddies in Saudi Arabia to flood the market with cheap oil.  In exchange, we sell them top of the line arms, we look the other way when they commit human rights violations, and we generally defend them for being one of the most backwards countries in the world.

That's how desperate the US is to prevent the success of socialism.

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qman said:

Shouldn't they be able to function regardless of the price of oil?  I mean what kind of system needs a high commodity price to not collapse on itself?

So maybe the price of oil really isn't the issue there, correct?

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XUL said:

The Ecstatic said:

Good thing your life doesn’t depend on it

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Yo, but seriously how bad was my definition. Or was it good?

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Shouldn't they be able to function regardless of the price of oil?  I mean what kind of system needs a high commodity price to not collapse on itself?

So maybe the price of oil really isn't the issue there, correct?

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You're missing the point.  It doesn't matter what they make their money off of; the US will always interfere.

If you're Cuba and you make great cigars, the US will ban your the sale of your cigars in the US, to help ensure your system fails.

The US feels it's better to take away the freedom of its citizens to buy fine Cuban cigars, than to risk allowing communism to succeed.

That's how desperate the US is to prevent the success of communism.

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qman said:

Even if true, the better system should still prevail over time.

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qman said:

I think many give the US way too much credit for the failure of others, most "communist" states fail because of human nature.

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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Even if true, the better system should still prevail over time.

---

We should allow both systems to function and see how well each performs.  Sabotaging every communist/socialist effort makes me a little suspicious.  Especially when the government claims they'll fail on their own, yet spends millions to ensure they fail.

qman said:

I think many give the US way too much credit for the failure of others, most "communist" states fail because of human nature.

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We don't know why most communist states fail if the US never gives them a chance.

Anyway, most Russians regret the conversion to capitalism.  And a similar poll.

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qman said:

I guess one would argue it's now a very warped version of "capitalism" taking place in Russia today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch

The usual suspects at work once again.

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The Ecstatic said:

XUL said:

The Ecstatic said:

Good thing your life doesn’t depend on it

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Yo, but seriously how bad was my definition. Or was it good?

---

Socialism simply means worker control of the means of production.
It’s just democracy, but for the economy.
It’s a very simple, yet wildly elusive, concept to understand.

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qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Shouldn't they be able to function regardless of the price of oil?  I mean what kind of system needs a high commodity price to not collapse on itself?

So maybe the price of oil really isn't the issue there, correct?

---

You're missing the point.  It doesn't matter what they make their money off of; the US will always interfere.

If you're Cuba and you make great cigars, the US will ban your the sale of your cigars in the US, to help ensure your system fails.

The US feels it's better to take away the freedom of its citizens to buy fine Cuban cigars, than to risk allowing communism to succeed.

That's how desperate the US is to prevent the success of communism.

---

Even if true, the better system should still prevail over time.

I think many give the US way too much credit for the failure of others, most "communist" states fail because of human nature.

---

The Ecstatic said:

^^ that’s basically all you do. Blame Muslims and Mexicans.

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The Ecstatic said:

No you don’t.

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Mind reader or totally clueless?

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

I guess one would argue it's now a very warped version of "capitalism" taking place in Russia today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch

The usual suspects at work once again.

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You mean a handful of billionaires just like it is in the US?

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XUL said:

The Ecstatic said:

^^ that’s basically all you do. Blame Muslims and Mexicans.

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Mexicans are fine nationalist people with great Catholic values. I just wish they would come in legally.

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