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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: montyx23]
    #25629360 -

montyx23 said:
Thanks for the reply, I read on this site that flipping them can speed up the rate of colonization sometimes if they seem like they are about to stall , so I just tried it out to see last night , should I not keep them flipped ? Or flip them back up?

And yeah so I might leave that one for about another week then till it's fully colonized.


Hmm one thing struck me just now.

How is myc supposed to 'stall'? The way I've always interpreted 'stalling BRF jars' is because of too dense substrate (bad prep) or too much substrate (too big/tall jars) so that pressure and the weight of the BRF mix somehow compressed the bottom half of the mix and made it inpenetrable by myc.

But now I realize that every BRF mix shrinks inside the jar. It shrinks a little after sterilization and it shrinks further during colonization. This creates space between the substrate and inside of the jar.

Since a shrunken BRF mix has space ALL around it except for the bottom which it stands on, then how can myc stall and not be able to colonize the outer edges all around the cake? It shouldn't have any problems at all colonizing these areas (most of the cake) since it is not pressed up against anything and it certainly does not have a lot of weight pressure.

Anyone following me? Sorry for my make shift English I understand it's not always as translatable..
But how the heck does one come to the conclusion that a tiny BRF substrate can weigh down the bottom half of the cake and make it impossible to colonize? (I'm not talking about you montyx23, not giving you Shit for anything homie, you are beginner and of course you read what others have said. But what about experienced growers advising to flip jars? How do they justify flipping the jar? Bottom half too heavy? Then what about shrinking cakes and space all around it? How is myc stalling now again?

(Im not talking about contam related stalling but as in this case physics related)


--------------------
Cakes inside Water Tub with optimal Surface Conditions

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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: Mateja]
    #25629366 -

Mateah said:
montyx23 said:
Thanks for the reply, I read on this site that flipping them can speed up the rate of colonization sometimes if they seem like they are about to stall , so I just tried it out to see last night , should I not keep them flipped ? Or flip them back up?

And yeah so I might leave that one for about another week then till it's fully colonized.


Hmm one thing struck me just now.

How is myc supposed to 'stall'? The way I've always interpreted 'stalling BRF jars' is because of too dense substrate (bad prep) or too much substrate (too big/tall jars) so that pressure and the weight of the BRF mix somehow compressed the bottom half of the mix and made it inpenetrable by myc.

But now I realize that every BRF mix shrinks inside the jar. It shrinks a little after sterilization and it shrinks further during colonization. This creates space between the substrate and inside of the jar.

Since a shrunken BRF mix has space ALL around it except for the bottom which it stands on, then how can myc stall and not be able to colonize the outer edges all around the cake? It shouldn't have any problems at all colonizing these areas (most of the cake) since it is not pressed up against anything and it certainly does not have a lot of weight pressure.

Anyone following me? Sorry for my make shift English I understand it's not always as translatable..
But how the heck does one come to the conclusion that a tiny BRF substrate can weigh down the bottom half of the cake and make it impossible to colonize? (I'm not talking about you montyx23, not giving you Shit for anything homie, you are beginner and of course you read what others have said. But what about experienced growers advising to flip jars? How do they justify flipping the jar? Bottom half too heavy? Then what about shrinking cakes and space all around it? How is myc stalling now again?

(Im not talking about contam related stalling but as in this case physics related)


Apologizes for bad English... Types in better English than 99% of anyone online.


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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: Mateja]
    #25629381 -

I only have a few grows under my belt so I have no explanation as to why flipping jars supposedly helps stalled jars finish colonizing. Figured two weeks of stalled mycelium growth on the bottom id have nothing to lose and it worked out for me but like you said before It probably would have finished even if I didn’t flip it. I just wanted to share my experience with flipping jars :thumbup:


--------------------
Just a man with a dream and a bag of mushrooms

Edited by Harry S. Shrooman (11/21/18 07:40 AM)

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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: Harry S. Shrooman]
    #25629472 -

This is just my hypothetical thought but maybe getting light onto the bottom of the jar causes a growth trigger?


--------------------
Whoever appeals to the law against his
Fellow man is either a fool or a coward
Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both
For a wounded man shall say to his assailant
If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven
Such is the rule of honor

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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: MentalPariah]
    #25629476 -

Mateah said:
montyx23 said:
Thanks for the reply, I read on this site that flipping them can speed up the rate of colonization sometimes if they seem like they are about to stall , so I just tried it out to see last night , should I not keep them flipped ? Or flip them back up?

And yeah so I might leave that one for about another week then till it's fully colonized.


Hmm one thing struck me just now.

How is myc supposed to 'stall'? The way I've always interpreted 'stalling BRF jars' is because of too dense substrate (bad prep) or too much substrate (too big/tall jars) so that pressure and the weight of the BRF mix somehow compressed the bottom half of the mix and made it inpenetrable by myc.

But now I realize that every BRF mix shrinks inside the jar. It shrinks a little after sterilization and it shrinks further during colonization. This creates space between the substrate and inside of the jar.

Since a shrunken BRF mix has space ALL around it except for the bottom which it stands on, then how can myc stall and not be able to colonize the outer edges all around the cake? It shouldn't have any problems at all colonizing these areas (most of the cake) since it is not pressed up against anything and it certainly does not have a lot of weight pressure.

Anyone following me? Sorry for my make shift English I understand it's not always as translatable..
But how the heck does one come to the conclusion that a tiny BRF substrate can weigh down the bottom half of the cake and make it impossible to colonize? (I'm not talking about you montyx23, not giving you Shit for anything homie, you are beginner and of course you read what others have said. But what about experienced growers advising to flip jars? How do they justify flipping the jar? Bottom half too heavy? Then what about shrinking cakes and space all around it? How is myc stalling now again?

(Im not talking about contam related stalling but as in this case physics related)


I follow you...I would think that the weight is negligible...I colonize 10# sawdust block that weight more than a BRF Cake and they colonize the bottoms just fine...granted I do get to shake the spawn around in the block bag, but should still hold some truth when the bag settles and the myc is trying to capture the bottom of the bag. :bongload:


MentalPariah said:
This is just my hypothetical thought but maybe getting light onto the bottom of the jar causes a growth trigger?


I would agree if light was a true trigger :shrug:


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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: Tormato]
    #25635562 -

So just got my first little baby pins today when I checked this morning, about 8 of them visible through the jar, I'm SO excited , this just boosted my mood :grin:
, I'll be posting pictures very soon as soon as my phone charges enough,
And I was thinking of just letting them fruit in vitro, since I've only got about 3 jars going, only one that's fruiting now. Does anyone think it's really worth setting up proper fruiting conditions for one jar , that has already pinned, and it's a B+ strain too which I hear is quite good at fruiting in vitro.

Thanks :mushroom2:

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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: montyx23]
    #25635570 -



Here are two pics of the visible pins that have popped out, one of them is actually growing underneath the jar .

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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: montyx23]
    #25635571 -

I'd also like to add that all that verm on the outside is from dunking and rolling, I'm not sure if it helped at all, but it sure hasn't hindered it

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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: Mateja]
    #25635572 -

I see what you're saying because I actually did have a couple jars where the substrate was too dense and clumped up, tbh even one of my colonizing jars now is a little too dense and clunky, however it's still colonizing slowly but surely.. I've noticed way faster and more success from having a light fluffy substrate which is basically how my current fruiting jar now was, hence why I think it colonized the fastest,

But yeah thanks for pointing that out as I was thinking the same but couldn't confirm it really .

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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: Harry S. Shrooman]
    #25635785 -

If my substrate is packed too tightly, the bottoms seem to stall a bit and flipping them definitely seems to help.  CO2 sinks.  Flipping them over and giving them a smack forces gas exchange to the bottom and CO2 will then sink down toward the lid where it's already colonized once it settles.  I shove a penny underneath the edge of the lid to give that C02 somewhere to escape.  It speeds up quite a bit, and finishes in just a couple of days. 

I left two "test" jars to sit on their own during my last run, and the bottoms just colonized yesterday.  The other 11 are fruiting as we speak, so an argument could certainly be made that it's effective in at least some circumstances.

I use micropore tape from the get-go, because anything that might make its way into the dry verm layer otherwise could be sucked up through when I flip them and smack the bottom.  I learned that the hard way.

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Re: First time BRF cakes . [Re: Janice0771]
    #25636078 -

Wow , nice insight on flipping cakes man. This seems like a good test especially since yours colonized way faster after having been flipped. I've flipped one of my slow jars and it has shown some progress,  keep us updated if any changes .
:mushroom2:

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