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Anonymous #1

The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes.
    #25623253 - 11/18/18 01:05 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

More specifically, I suppose, the community. I find myself identifying really closely with certain members of this community (scientifically-minded, critical thinking, etc), but I'm saddened by the way that this forum (and I suppose drug forums in general) attract people who are the opposite of those folks.

The Mushroom Hunting and Identification forum is the first place where that really started getting under my skin. I don't know how the TI's do it. There is only so many times I could see "is this cyanescens?" (insert random mushroom that looks nothing like a cyanescens from a habitat that is nothing like the habitat for a cyanescens) without losing my shit. It can't be that hard to understand the habitat and look for something with macroscopic features that somewhat resemble the mushrooms you're hunting.

The other area that gets me is the attachment of spiritual nonsense to the mushroom experience. Let me be clear that I am an atheist (the "you're welcome to your religious beliefs, just leave me alone" brand of atheism) and that colors my perspective here, but I still think leaping to the conclusion that there is anything outside of us because of experiences we've had on trips is a bit silly and shows a complete lack of critical thinking. No, you weren't talking to god, any more than a schizophrenic in the middle of a break is taking to god in his hallucinations. There are users who argue that entheogens ARE god. No, mushrooms don't "open you up to the spirit world." No, there are no actual demons. No, mushrooms aren't trying to take over your soul. I appreciate that mushroom use is definitely a spiritual experience, but let's not all jump to the conclusion that there is any nonphysical magic or woo attached to any of it.

I won't even start on the conspiracy theory thinking and distrust of the scientific community around here. Where do you think all of those cultivation techniques/tools came from?

I just wish as a community we were smarter and better.

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Anonymous #2

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #1] * 3
    #25623278 - 11/18/18 01:29 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

You are isolated because you live in a prison on a pedestal that you have created for yourself.
Lower standards and learn to accept that people have different beliefs, some may seem stupid to you but more than likely it's because you are dismissing them straight away because of your high and mighty scientist attitude.
I feel sad for people like you.
Must be lonely.

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Anonymous #3

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25623293 - 11/18/18 01:40 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Can’t be that lonely cause I agree with anon 1

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Anonymous #1

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #25623316 - 11/18/18 02:00 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Anon 2: I'm definitely not lonely because, as I said in my original post, there are plenty of folks around here who I look up to and whose critical thinking abilities are clear.

And as I tried to make clear but obviously failed to do in describing my atheism, I'm a live and let live type, I accept that people have different beliefs. I support folks believing in whatever they want to believe in. I just think folks should be more critical of their beliefs, and more critical of the world around them. We all have similar experiences on mushrooms but let's think critically about what's actually happening. Is it more likely that you spoke to an alien or an otherworldly being on shrooms, or is it more likely that it was the chemicals in your brain causing hallucinations? We understand enough about the brain (in a scientific sense) to come to some kind of conclusion.

I mean, yes, it definitely sounds like I'm looking down on people. I guess there's no avoiding it when I say I wish we were better as a community: I think the extreme fringes of the mushroom community make the sensible, responsible members look bad from the outside. I'm certainly trying not to, though. I posted in here because I don't want to attack anyone personally. I just wish people in a very general sense were more critical-minded. Folks talk about entheogens "expanding the mind" and that's not what I'm observing. Enlightenment shouldn't mean believing anything at all.

Edited by Anonymous (11/18/18 02:01 PM)

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Anonymous #4

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25624064 - 11/18/18 08:24 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I used to feel like this forum was more interesting then real life. Now I feel like real life is more interesting then this forum. As real as I can say it. Therefore my opinion here has changed a lot and also my activity.

Honestly fresh air can be really nice :smirk:

If you are expecting all this to change you are going to be expecting for awhile

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Anonymous #3

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #25624278 - 11/18/18 10:28 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Well versed #4

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Anonymous #5

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #25624283 - 11/18/18 10:34 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

This forum is a business and it runs on ignorant people (to buy shit from sponsors)

Add to this a handfull of agents that love potentially concious places to stir up things and throw in confusion

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Anonymous #6

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #5]
    #25624457 - 11/19/18 02:00 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

The cross section of humanity one finds here is the same as it is anywhere in the westernised world.

Accept. Accept. Accept.

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Anonymous #7

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25624616 - 11/19/18 06:22 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

By saying "more critical" you're not doing what you are saying they should be doing. How are you being critical of your own train of thought when you so assuredly assume they themselves have not taken the time? I think you are young and arrogant, and don't understand that you're complaining that they don't agree with you. I think you posted this here because it's easier than facing whatever losing battle you've waged and lost, rather than staying out of it if you feel so strongly. Just like you have here, lots to say but no substance when you break it down. :shrug:

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Anonymous #8

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #7]
    #25624636 - 11/19/18 06:42 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

I am also an atheist, but more importantly a skeptic. I also think there is a lot of people on here whose beliefs are informed by "feelings" rather than anything more tangible or evidence based. It is kind of sad.

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Anonymous #7

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #8]
    #25624676 - 11/19/18 07:06 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Most scientific beliefs have been refuted and died, all the while during their existence did they help find ire for the disbelievers. Surely only affording arrogance for ones loud of mouth, yet all the while being supported by "evidence." Science is great, having a closed mind is pointless however.

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Anonymous #8

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #7] * 1
    #25624812 - 11/19/18 08:37 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Science doesn't promote close mindedness, the exact opposite actually. The whole point of science is to explain something and then be proved wrong over and over. Eventually a theory is put forth that can't be defeated,thats how you reach "truth".

All of science can be turned on its head in an instant if new evidence comes to light. That is what is so beautiful about it. There are no decrees or doctrines.

I don't think calling peoples absurd and ridiculous beliefs out is being close minded. People are free to believe whatever compels them, but there is such thing as being wrong...

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Anonymous #1

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #8]
    #25624864 - 11/19/18 09:11 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for those comments, Anon 8. I'm not sure that Anon 7 understands the meaning of the word critical. It doesn't mean being closed-minded, quite the opposite: it means being open to ideas but questioning them. "We must keep an open mind, but not so open that our brains fall out," a wise man once said.

I think you're wrong about me, Anon 7, and wrong about my perspective. I am constantly critical of my own worldview. I have examined it and continue to do so on a daily basis. That's what it is to have a scientific attitude, as Anon 8 points out: science is always open to questioning and further investigation, and when new evidence presents itself, it should be examined and included in the model. I am constantly searching for evidence that there's more to the world than I've observed or understood. When I find some, I'll incorporate that into my worldview. That's being critical.

I'm definitely not young; I've been tripping for longer than most posters in this forum have been alive. I might be arrogant, but that doesn't make me wrong. I don't think I'm arrogant, though. I try to be accepting of others' perspectives and I don't claim to know everything. But I do know some things. I know that if there are otherworldly beings out there, there'd be some evidence of them other than the feelings Anon 8 referred to. Without that evidence, we have only our experiences when tripping. When under the influence of mind-altering chemicals. If that's not evidence that should be taken with a grain of salt, ie. questioned, I don't know what is.

I posted here because, as I said before, I don't want to appear to be personally attacking individual posters. I could have posted this in the Philosophy forum, I suppose. Call me a coward if you like; I'll admit that at some level, I didn't want to be seen as a guy who trashes other people's worldview. I debated whether I should post this at all, but it's been on my mind, so I went about it in what I saw as a non-confrontational way, as much to get it off my chest as anything else. I get why you'd criticize that approach, and it's fair. But my anonymity, like my supposed arrogance, doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'm not complaining about people disagreeing with me. People are free to do that, and I'm definitely wrong about things in my life and need disagreeing with from time to time. What I'm complaining about is not the disagreement, but the lack of critical thought that leads to the disagreement. It's that people see spirits when they hallucinate, so spirits must be real. No consideration of Occam's razor, that there could be another, simpler explanation, one that also happens to be supported by science and observation.

This is anti-science and shows a basic misunderstanding about how science works, by the way: "[m]ost scientific beliefs have been refuted and died, all the while during their existence did they help find ire for the disbelievers." It's simply not true. Scientific ideas have been replaced, but it's very rare. In most cases, science is added to or modified when new evidence presents itself, not thrown out. But in all cases, our understanding has improved through this process, and that simply cannot be seen as a negative feature of science. It's the self-correcting mechanism that makes science so powerful and good. It's how we get closer to the "truth" about the world around us, as Anon 8 points out.

As an aside, I think you're right to a certain extent, Anon 6, what we're seeing is a cross-section of humanity, but I think the drug-using part of humanity in particular has a reputation for being a bit spacey or uncritical, and that's what I'm sad about. Like you say though, there's not much I can do but accept that. I'm simply expressing my sadness about that state of affairs.

Edited by Anonymous (11/19/18 09:12 AM)

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Anonymous #9

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #25624894 - 11/19/18 09:23 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

It's obvious that you think this way because you're possessed by demons.

Using mushrooms, crystals, and sage smoke, ask the aliens for help exorcising these demons from your soul.

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Anonymous #1

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #9]
    #25624948 - 11/19/18 09:53 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck... you're right! Damn demons...

*starts brewing tea*

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Anonymous #10

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #25639845 - 11/26/18 09:41 AM (5 years, 4 months ago)

There are a couple of things going on here.

One is that, of the people who experiment with drugs or trip, they're more likely to have mystical or woowoo worldviews. So then in a forum about drugs you'll see more woowoo talk because more of those people are already there.

The other thing is that there's prolly a severe bias in the people who post. The silent majority who lurk or read haven't come to new and starting conclusions lately. "Spirits aren't real, and nothing happens when you die" is about an exciting a topic as "I floss my teeth". But the ones who post about "I just transmogrified into the buddhaa of the upper 8 dimensions" are posting because they feel like they *need* to tell somebody. So you'll get more crazy posts just because of that.

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Anonymous #11

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #10]
    #25644858 - 11/28/18 12:17 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

The "spiritual nonsense" you talk about gets me a bit too. I used to spend 10+ hours a day online, then I took a break of 3 years where I cut off all internet activity that wasn't work email due to what I felt was the general overall negative effect the internet had on my mental wellbeing. No Reddit, no social media, no forums, nada. I've recently lightly began using a few forums again and let me tell you, the internet is not real life and real life is not the internet.

The scope of posts and opinions in this small corner of the internet is heavily influenced primarily by people taking a ton of hallucinogens among other things. The fact that there are so many out there theories on this site implies that most of if not all of it is nonsense.

However at the same time I try to realize that I'm no more "right" than they are because I cannot know anything, truly, as fact. I can know what I see and experience and what others see and experience, and observe agreed upon measurements and baselines but I since I am not the creator of the universe, I did not see the universe created by a creator, nor did I ever see an objective series of scientific events that brought the universe into being, I cannot know. Therefor I must treat every theory with a bit of possible truth, entertain that truth if even for a moment, and then try as best I can to evaluate it.

But yeah sometimes I read stuff on here and think "maybe take a bit less." They're drugs that alter your consciousness, not God. Anything that happens while you're tripping is contained within your own head and your own experience and that is where the experience is limited. No matter how hard you trip, that experience was exclusive to you. What you do with the emotions and thoughts that come from that experience is up to you as well, but I think keeping mushrooms in perspective is one of the most important parts of taking them. Mushrooms can only show you what is already inside yourself and help you see the human experience in a broader view, they don't magically pull spirituality from some place and put it into you.

Edited by Anonymous (11/28/18 06:12 PM)

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Anonymous #4

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #11]
    #25645421 - 11/28/18 05:15 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I myself find myself perplexed between wanting to never see or speak to any shroomerite that exists ever again and also wanting to bang every single shroomerite that exists just to say I did it.

I am definitely of the heterosexual variety but sometimes I am like "you know if they put on wigs and masks and all said they were viva fuck it who knows it could be fun to just bang them all." Can anyone relate or not at all? You ever have those horny days on the internet where suddenly just because someone is trading you a few pms you just get this bright idea in your head that possibly banging this person would just make your year complete? Especially if there was a pillow talk and it was all related to the topics and conversations you see in philosophy and psychology and spirituality and mysticism and the pub. Man that would just be hot. You know one at a time or all at once it doesnt matter to me but I need to be the dominant one in the sexual scenario or I cant get off. Seriously guys I am sorry I am like that but I just am. I could bang 10 people all at once from the top but never from the bottom.

Can anyone relate to me or am I completely alone on this? Let me know people. Thanks for participating.

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Anonymous #11

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #25645540 - 11/28/18 06:15 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

^ now thas funny bois

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Anonymous #12

Re: The Shroomery makes me sad sometimes. [Re: Anonymous #11] * 1
    #25647088 - 11/29/18 05:28 PM (5 years, 3 months ago)

I think entheogens are spiritual and help people to understand ‘god’

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