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MrFahrenheit
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Is this bacterial?
#25612765 - 11/13/18 06:49 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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This tray smells fine but I'm wondering what this spot is...
 Thanks
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Astonish
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Firstly your substrate is way over saturated. Second if you see yellowish color / droplets it’s definitely indicative of bacterial presence.
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Failboat
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25612803 - 11/13/18 06:58 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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It should be fine, but make sure it gets more FAE.
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MrFahrenheit
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25612843 - 11/13/18 07:12 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astonish said: Firstly your substrate is way over saturated. Second if you see yellowish color / droplets it’s definitely indicative of bacterial presence.
Is it? I don't mist it, that's just the water from the coir/verm/water mix. I have one 1x1 inch square hole cut on two sides of each tray stuffed with polyfill. Should I just cut two more?
And yeah some of the trays have metabolites, are you seeing it in this pic?
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Dimensional Travel
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25612861 - 11/13/18 07:23 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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First off sorry if this is hijacking the thread
Quote:
Astonish said: Second if you see yellowish color / droplets it’s definitely indicative of bacterial presence.
I have yellowish droplets on a cake when using PF TEK. Working on the second round and 2 cakes have definitely had yellowish drops. Are they no good?
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pablokabute
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Quote:
Dimensional Travel said: First off sorry if this is hijacking the thread
Quote:
Astonish said: Second if you see yellowish color / droplets it’s definitely indicative of bacterial presence.
I have yellowish droplets on a cake when using PF TEK. Working on the second round and 2 cakes have definitely had yellowish drops. Are they no good?
you can still probably fruit it man, bacterial contam is not that grave of an issue as compared to other host of contaminants..
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Failboat
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Yeah bacterial contamination that is a major problem will be obvious and gross.
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scarabaeus
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Re: OP. If it smells shroomy (like you would expect it to), then you are probably fine. #1 indicator of bacteria is smell (sour, yeasty, you'll know something is wrong right off the bat -1st whiff). #2 is a total collapse of mycelial growth -it looks fine one day the next 'WTF!'. Weird discoloration caused by bacteria will typically happen on agar plates. Weird discoloration on substrate? -not so much.
Air! More air!. She's gotta breathe...
Re: Droplets on cakes. Probably just metabolites which mycelium sometimes produces (usually because conditions are not quite right). But I never do cakes so...
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Astonish
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Quote:
pablokabute said:
Quote:
Dimensional Travel said: First off sorry if this is hijacking the thread
Quote:
Astonish said: Second if you see yellowish color / droplets it’s definitely indicative of bacterial presence.
I have yellowish droplets on a cake when using PF TEK. Working on the second round and 2 cakes have definitely had yellowish drops. Are they no good?
you can still probably fruit it man, bacterial contam is not that grave of an issue as compared to other host of contaminants..
yellowish cakes can still be fruited fine. I’ve had bacterial subs in my first grows and still pulled a god dried oz of mushies. If you want an example of terrible nasty ass substrate that still fruited check this out.

 There is bacterial presence in your sub, but it’s not the worst thing that can happen. If u ever have mold, never open it in your house because the mold can produce spores And contaminate your grow area. But as far as it looks now it definitely will still fruit. Just be more careful next time when mixing spawn to sub. Still air box is best, but if you don’t have it Make sure vents are off for 30 mins then try. Again be thankful there is no trich or mold.
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Failboat
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25612894 - 11/13/18 07:38 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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 It's gonna be fine brah
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Astonish
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Failboat]
#25612902 - 11/13/18 07:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: Yeah bacterial contamination that is a major problem will be obvious and gross.
Yellow droplets from bacterial presence is not a major issue, definitely one of the lesser things To worry about. At least it’s not trich.
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Astonish
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Quote:
Dimensional Travel said: First off sorry if this is hijacking the thread
Quote:
Astonish said: Second if you see yellowish color / droplets it’s definitely indicative of bacterial presence.
I have yellowish droplets on a cake when using PF TEK. Working on the second round and 2 cakes have definitely had yellowish drops. Are they no good?
They should still be good. Bacterial obviously, but still can fruit. Spent cakes, it’s better to mix into potting soil rather than thrown away because you can get more fruits that way.
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Astonish
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Failboat]
#25612911 - 11/13/18 07:45 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said:
 It's gonna be fine brah
Dear god.
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MH5109
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25612927 - 11/13/18 07:51 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Perfect example I had a couple bacterial quarts I spawned cuz I didn't want to waste them, I hate to waste anything. I got a pretty solid first flush off this shoebox, working on second now.

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scarabaeus
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25612928 - 11/13/18 07:52 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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The pic you posted is not discolored from bacteria (sorry). It is (was) probably Botrytis (a brown mold). This is why you still got fruits. Botrytis is not particularly aggressive to fruit-bodies. If that tub was so messed-up looking from bacteria, there is little chance of any harvest. Tubs that are a bit bacterial can be fruited with some success, but not if the bacteria presented itself in such a graphic way. Botrytis.
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Astonish
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Quote:
scarabaeus said: The pic you posted is not discolored from bacteria (sorry). It is (was) probably Botrytis (a brown mold). This is why you still got fruits. Botrytis is not particularly aggressive to fruit-bodies. If that tub was so messed-up looking from bacteria, there is little chance of any harvest. Tubs that are a bit bacterial can be fruited with some success, but not if the bacteria presented itself in such a graphic way. Botrytis.
It was definitely bacterial, and not mold. Bags started with yellow droplets and turned yellowish.
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Astonish
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: MH5109]
#25612944 - 11/13/18 08:00 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MH5109 said: Perfect example I had a couple bacterial quarts I spawned cuz I didn't want to waste them, I hate to waste anything. I got a pretty solid first flush off this shoebox, working on second now.


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MrFahrenheit
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Registered: 07/27/17
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Quote:
scarabaeus said: Re: OP. If it smells shroomy (like you would expect it to), then you are probably fine. #1 indicator of bacteria is smell (sour, yeasty, you'll know something is wrong right off the bat -1st whiff). #2 is a total collapse of mycelial growth -it looks fine one day the next 'WTF!'. Weird discoloration caused by bacteria will typically happen on agar plates. Weird discoloration on substrate? -not so much.
Air! More air!. She's gotta breathe...
Re: Droplets on cakes. Probably just metabolites which mycelium sometimes produces (usually because conditions are not quite right). But I never do cakes so...
Alright. I suppose I'll cut a few more holes in the trays tomorrow. Or would you recommend removing the polyfill? Since they're in the fruiting stage.
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Failboat
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Show your setup, im not sure what you really have going on
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MrFahrenheit
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Failboat]
#25612964 - 11/13/18 08:11 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: Show your setup, im not sure what you really have going on
 There is a space heater at the bottom of the tent that blows air around in there
Edited by MrFahrenheit (11/13/18 08:12 PM)
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Failboat
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Ok the problem is the lids aren't letting enough air exchange, prop them up half an inch somehow. Also if you have metabolites pooking it's probably because of heavy condensation dripping off your lids. Use a paper towel to absorb any puddles on your substrate.
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MrFahrenheit
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Failboat]
#25612993 - 11/13/18 08:26 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said: Ok the problem is the lids aren't letting enough air exchange, prop them up half an inch somehow. Also if you have metabolites pooking it's probably because of heavy condensation dripping off your lids. Use a paper towel to absorb any puddles on your substrate.
I'll try just opening them and turning them at an angle so there are openings in two corners. For the next time, as I plan to reuse these trays, how big of a hole would you put in it for proper FAE? I have micropore tape so I could do two long slits on the long sides or something.
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scarabaeus
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25612998 - 11/13/18 08:28 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry Astonish, but bacteria does not present itself the way I see in your pic. What I see is BROWN. Brown means Botrytis. This is not to say that your tub didn't have bacteria happening -because Botrytis is considered in the mushroom growing industry as an 'indicator' mold, which means that growing conditions were off and need to be rectified. I'm not trying to make you wrong, I'm just trying to learn you sumpin'. When I was in school 'microbiology/bacteriology course', we did nothing but study this stuff for 6 months (we grew it in the lab. not just Botrytis of course, but many contaminants especially those which concern human pathology. Botrytis is harmless BTW).
This is my wheelhouse friend; It's ok to missinterpret the contam on a tub. Botrytis. .
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Failboat
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Turning it will be perfect
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pablokabute
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: MH5109]
#25613087 - 11/13/18 09:16 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MH5109 said: Perfect example I had a couple bacterial quarts I spawned cuz I didn't want to waste them, I hate to waste anything. I got a pretty solid first flush off this shoebox, working on second now.


is this from an MS grow? Nice canopy
--------------------
Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1
'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'
"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."
--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..
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Astonish
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I promise , even though pics did not truly show it was definitely bacterial. It began with perfectly white mycelium and yellow water droplets appeared during colinzation from spawn to sub. The subset colonized good but yellow droplets appeared and slowly turned yellowish. No mold, just heavy bacterial presence. No browning. Pictures do not show much.
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MH5109
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Quote:
pablokabute said:
Quote:
MH5109 said: Perfect example I had a couple bacterial quarts I spawned cuz I didn't want to waste them, I hate to waste anything. I got a pretty solid first flush off this shoebox, working on second now.


is this from an MS grow? Nice canopy
Thanks, it was a second g2g from a plate. They all did that.
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scarabaeus
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25613129 - 11/13/18 09:43 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Re: Astonish. I will grant you my friend that it is often difficult to make a diagnosis from just a photo (and the one you posted is not the greatest, I'm not judging, I know it's hard to get a great pic lol), but if whatever it was that was contamming your sub was aerial (3 dimensional) what I mean to be clear, was growing up and off your sub, then the contamination was NOT bacterial -it was something else. Without a sample to put under a microscope it is impossible to be 100% sure. Even if you sent me a sample through the mail it wouldn't help, because often, even under the best conditions, the very act of preparing a slide destroys the structures one needs for identification.
What IS known is that subs that are a 'bit off' because of bacterial contamination can often (or at least sometimes) be fruited. However, in my experience (I started growing way back in 1989), I have never seen a tub that exhibited such hardcore contamination as what it appears you posted, do anything other than end up in my compost pile.
But hey, look, I'm not infallible. And pictures can be deceiving so...
If nothing else comes out of our conversation, I hope at least I gave you something to think about. BTW, Botrytis lol.
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Astonish
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Quote:
scarabaeus said: Re: Astonish. I will grant you my friend that it is often difficult to make a diagnosis from just a photo (and the one you posted is not the greatest, I'm not judging, I know it's hard to get a great pic lol), but if whatever it was that was contamming your sub was aerial (3 dimensional) what I mean to be clear, was growing up and off your sub, then the contamination was NOT bacterial -it was something else. Without a sample to put under a microscope it is impossible to be 100% sure. Even if you sent me a sample through the mail it wouldn't help, because often, even under the best conditions, the very act of preparing a slide destroys the structures one needs for identification.
What IS known is that subs that are a 'bit off' because of bacterial contamination can often (or at least sometimes) be fruited. However, in my experience (I started growing way back in 1989), I have never seen a tub that exhibited such hardcore contamination as what it appears you posted, do anything other than end up in my compost pile.
But hey, look, I'm not infallible. And pictures can be deceiving so...
If nothing else comes out of our conversation, I hope at least I gave you something to think about. BTW, Botrytis lol.
I agree man. Those are extremely old. But what I am trying to say brother is, During colonization of the sub everything was white as a piece of paper. Then a droplet of yellow Happened and it was slightly over saturated. And the sub turned yellow, no fruits happened on top after 3 weeks, and I flipped over and that was the result. It’s invitro pinning and looked nasty as fuck While the top looked like this  Very long time ago.
Edited by Astonish (11/13/18 09:56 PM)
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scarabaeus
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Astonish]
#25613184 - 11/13/18 10:20 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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OK, but how do you explain the brown stuff? Metabolites don't really tell me much other than that perhaps your sub was over-incubated (i.e. bad growing conditions, which by the way can lead to Botrytis which is an 'indicator' mold). Wait a minute and let me think... (I'm doing this off the top of my head).
Metabolites occur because of 1) Temperature was too high 2)anaerobic conditions (lack of FAE) 3 keeping your sub in growing conditions for too long. I mean (at least for the species we are talking about), most likely not enough air exchange.
Anyway, AFAIK, any, and I mean ANY amber or yellowish exudation produced by mycelial growth is a waste product. Even though these waste products consist mostly of various alcohols and acetone, many bacteria thrive on this stuff. So I don't doubt for one second that your sub was 'bacterial'. But this doesn't explain much because ALL mushroom substrates have SOME bacteria. Keeping bacterial counts as close to the hypothetical zero is important at the spawn (grain jar) stage, but once the spawn is transferred to a 'bulk' substrate of straw, horse poo, coir, or whatever -there will be bacteria.
So again, was that brown stuff brown, or just what is perceived from your photo? Was the brown stuff growing up off the sub even just a little bit? If it was, it was NOT bacteria, although I'm sure it was present. Hope this answers your question a bit. Peace.
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Failboat
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Looked like dry spots on mycelium in the blur.
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pablokabute
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Failboat]
#25613251 - 11/13/18 11:17 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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fuckiiing cubes, I even fruited some on unpasteurized cow manure using used pf tek pucks(used for tissue isolation), from a severely neglected, unwashed plastic tub, so I dont know anymore why people dont get fruits most of the time(reading a lot of posts about this)...
i say fuck it,
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Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1
'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'
"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."
--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..
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scarabaeus
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7 O'clock and 3 O'clock look BROWN. 11 O'clock looks un-colonized but properly hydrated. 7 and 3 are dry but 11 is fine? Unlikely IMO.
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Apc123
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Unless its colder then 70 degrees I wouldn't use a space heater. If they're all 100% colonized I would try to remove the polyfil, at least for a couple of hours OR you could just lift the lids up a bit so they're not pressed closed but just sitting on top so some more air can get in. Keep an eye on things when you do this so it doesn't go the other way and get too dry... Especially if you remove the polyfill for a few hours. I have done this before then forgot and killed my mono tubs it was so sad good luck and keep us updated I'm sure you will see mushies soon!
-------------------- The thing about deceit is, you don't know your being deceived...
The only thing I am sure about is that I know nothing - socrates
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MrFahrenheit
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Re: Is this bacterial? [Re: Apc123]
#25615456 - 11/14/18 10:30 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Apc123 said: Unless its colder then 70 degrees I wouldn't use a space heater. If they're all 100% colonized I would try to remove the polyfil, at least for a couple of hours OR you could just lift the lids up a bit so they're not pressed closed but just sitting on top so some more air can get in. Keep an eye on things when you do this so it doesn't go the other way and get too dry... Especially if you remove the polyfill for a few hours. I have done this before then forgot and killed my mono tubs it was so sad good luck and keep us updated I'm sure you will see mushies soon! 
Thanks. I have my setup in my unfinished basement and its winter here in Canuckland so it's definitely below 70 down there. I tried removing the polyfill for about 3 hours but it still seems pretty wet. I'll try just lifting the lids so they aren't snapped shut. Will update if that fixes the issue.
Edit: tried the lids, fixed. Thanks everyone for the advice. For next time I'm going to put a few more holes in them.
Edited by MrFahrenheit (11/15/18 06:39 AM)
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