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Claybirdd
Widespread Panic


Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 86
Loc: On tour
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Tomentose and Rhizomatic
#25585269 - 11/01/18 07:11 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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So I finally got two tubs going, one Colombian Rust Spore and the other Ecuador. Both stayed in the tomentose phase while on agar and in grain. Yet for some reason whenever I spawned them the Ecuador went rhizomatic. I must say it is a very beautiful tub and I can see now why people strive for rhizomatic cultures. Just hope I can get fruit off both of them.

 
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Chwyn
Bacteria Rancher


Registered: 08/21/16
Posts: 1,238
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: Claybirdd]
#25585429 - 11/01/18 08:12 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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rhizomorphic growth is desirable because it indicates healthy mycilium that is able to transfer nutrients efficiently. Its normal for mycilium to change the pattern of growth as it matures.
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teladi
FUNKSOULBROTHER


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 1,189
Loc: South Africa
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: Claybirdd]
#25585838 - 11/02/18 12:06 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chwyn said: rhizomorphic growth is desirable because it indicates healthy mycilium that is able to transfer nutrients efficiently. Its normal for mycilium to change the pattern of growth as it matures.
It doesn't indicate health. It's just a different structure.
Quote:
Claybirdd said: Both stayed in the tomentose phase while on agar and in grain. Yet for some reason whenever I spawned them the Ecuador went rhizomatic. I must say it is a very beautiful tub and I can see now why people strive for rhizomatic cultures.
Lower your nutritional content of your agar, and you may be able to trigger a switch to rhizo growth.
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Chwyn
Bacteria Rancher


Registered: 08/21/16
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: teladi]
#25586325 - 11/02/18 08:59 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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Rhizomorphic mycelia run faster, form more primordia and in the final analysis yield more mushrooms than cottony mycelia. One example of this is illustrated in Fig. 37. A single wedge of mycelium was transferred to a petri dish and two distinct mycelial types grew from it. The stringy sector formed abundant primordia while the cottony sector did not, an event common in agar culture.
Stamets, Paul. "The Mushroom Cultivator." Stamets, Paul. The Mushroom Cultivator: A Practical Guide to Growing Mushrooms at Home. Agarikon Press, 1983. page 45. web pdf.
https://decroissons.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/paul-stamets-the-mushroom-cultivator.pdf
I copied this from a mycology book. That is why I said rhizo is more desirable.
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Tormato  
The Goddess Kali Meh 😛




Registered: 07/01/17
Posts: 6,067
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: Chwyn] 1
#25586351 - 11/02/18 09:16 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chwyn said: Rhizomorphic mycelia run faster, form more primordia and in the final analysis yield more mushrooms than cottony mycelia. One example of this is illustrated in Fig. 37. A single wedge of mycelium was transferred to a petri dish and two distinct mycelial types grew from it. The stringy sector formed abundant primordia while the cottony sector did not, an event common in agar culture.
Stamets, Paul. "The Mushroom Cultivator." Stamets, Paul. The Mushroom Cultivator: A Practical Guide to Growing Mushrooms at Home. Agarikon Press, 1983. page 45. web pdf.
https://decroissons.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/paul-stamets-the-mushroom-cultivator.pdf
I copied this from a mycology book. That is why I said rhizo is more desirable.
Ehhhh...rhizo doesn't always mean super genetics or super performer. I think there are a lot of cultivators that feel the tormentose mycelium structure is just as good as rhizo...
-------------------- Helpful Threads The Shroomery Store Tormato's Q&A Thread Post Questions Here or PM me! "Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been." ~ Grateful Dead Before you start...Do you have a Pressure Cooker and a Dehydrator? I highly recommend getting both!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: Chwyn]
#25586356 - 11/02/18 09:18 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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Protip: dont read Paul's old shitty book.
Rhizo and tomentose don't mean shit. You can force rhizo growth by changing media nutrition.
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Claybirdd
Widespread Panic


Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 86
Loc: On tour
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: bodhisatta]
#25587083 - 11/02/18 03:11 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow. Lots of knowledge here. I will say this though, rhizomorphic looks like it would produce more pins. I'm using a PDA agar with 1-2 drops of raw honey or kayro syrup (whichever is easier to grab in the pantry) for nutes.
Edited by Claybirdd (11/02/18 03:16 PM)
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,930
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: Claybirdd]
#25587397 - 11/02/18 05:19 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I will say this though, rhizomorphic looks like it would produce more pins.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
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So rhizomorphic growth is more like a highway to transfer more nutrients over longer distances (assuming that the myc grows further and finds something great to eat, it hopes) and tomentose growth is more like a vast network of streets in a city to efficiently access a large area?
The only thing i can imagine is related to fruiting etc is that as long as there is a lot of nice substrate to colonize and decay a myc is afaik less likely to fruit since it is just too happy for that and will reproduce asexually/vegetatively rather than sexually.. So that could be a connection but it seems like a vague and irrelevant one.
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stareatclouds
star eat clouds?



Registered: 09/29/14
Posts: 9,930
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: Solipsis]
#25587609 - 11/02/18 06:57 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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Tomentose and rhizomorphic are just different characteristics of the same thing: mycelium. Tomentose mycelium doesn't just hang out in one spot forever, it will colonize a substrate like rhizomorphic will. And the nutrient base is often an influence on the characteristic. You can take a transfer of rhizomorphic mycelium and put it to something highly nutritious and it can definitely change to tomentose.
Most of my MS plates look tomentose, regardless of media, because there's so many strains present. After a few transfers, they begin to look rhizomorphic. The change is due to less strains being present, not nutrition. I never change my media up either.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist



Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
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No sure i'm with ya on that - i was just going into those characteristics in more detail and wasn't saying tomentose myc doesn't expand. Just trying to get a handle on the reasons for them looking like that which kinda make sense.
Yea MS plates sure do look tomentose but it's possible this happens even if you germinate very dilute spores i think? as a start up phase to gather local nutrients before really going on the hunt?
But I don't know what happens if you germinate super dilute spores (say just 2 compatible haploid mycs right along side each oher which fuse) on agar with very low nutrition and if you get rhizo right away?
My hypothesis about switching media is that it has to do with substrates rarely having a "perfect" nutritional value for fungi and I would like to know if switching media is actually an issue when you use a medium which really has it all. If not perfect then over time you would get particular nutrient deficiency(s) I think, which you can solve by switching to a medium which has that nutrient.
but what do i know
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Claybirdd
Widespread Panic


Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 86
Loc: On tour
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: Solipsis]
#25601596 - 11/08/18 06:15 PM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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So my tub of Colombian which was born on October 21st and was the one in the tomentose phase still hasn't produced any pins. The Ecuadorian tub (rhizomorphic) was born on the 27th and is already pinning. I'm just hoping you guys can take a look at my sub and tell me if anything is wrong with it or if I need to take any action. My gut tells me to let it ride and keep misting as necessary. First pic is the Ecuadorian. Second and third are the Colombian sub.


Edited by Claybirdd (11/09/18 02:44 AM)
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teladi
FUNKSOULBROTHER


Registered: 06/27/17
Posts: 1,189
Loc: South Africa
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: Claybirdd]
#25602151 - 11/09/18 01:30 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dude, forget about having tomentose or rhizomorphic growth. They don't mean anything. Keep them in good conditions, and they will repay you with a good harvest. Their morphology does not matter.
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Claybirdd
Widespread Panic


Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 86
Loc: On tour
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Tomentose and Rhizomatic [Re: teladi]
#25602200 - 11/09/18 02:45 AM (5 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm not concerned with the morphology. Just wanting to know if my sub looks ok.
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