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Offlinefranko142
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Can some cultivator review my experimental set-and-forget setup?
    #25592999 - 11/05/18 02:51 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I ran some promising experiments and would appreciate if some experienced grower could give feedback. I tried to structure the post somewhat to make it more readable (maybe just look at setup/results).

1. Context:

So I got my first cake a while back and I thought it's totally spent. Harvests were ~200g, ~100g, ~100g, ~50g fresh for respective flushes at which point I considered the cake spent. Instead of throwing it away I decided to run some experiments on it.

My first experiment was to "peel" it. The cake got pretty ugly after dunking several times and unfortunately having a lot of sporulation during one flush. So I cut away a layer of the cake on each side, dunked it and expected it to contaminate. Instead the cake didn't do anything for 2-3 weeks, except growing some mycelium on its surfaces. After that suddenly 2 small, but beautiful fruits grew ~10g fresh. While I was happy with the result overall, I always wondered how good the growing conditions and decided to try a different setup...

2. Setup:
My goal was to get a high RH without using a spray bottle. I used a spray bottle on my previous grow (fine dusting) from far away mildly on the surface of the cake and heavy on the sides. Somehow the surface never looked "healthy" (subjectively speaking). I searched shroomery and found someone who made an experiment (spray bottle vs. mist machine vs. nothing at all) and found that a spray bottle gave him by far the most aborts.

In regards to my setup a picture is worth more than a 1000 words...



Basically the outer tub acts as a 100% RH chamber. By having holes in the inner tub the humidity can go into the fruiting chamber, which gets fresh air through the lid at the same time. The RH in the fruiting chamber should be a constant value depending on the ration between the size of the FAE holes and RH holes.

You could exchange tubs for buckets, you could staple the setup if you want to go big, you could replace lids for cheap foils and you could replace the water in the humidity chamber if this should lead to contam somehow (which i didn't do).

I know that RH is not supposed to be constant. It should be volatile and besides RH, evaporation is as/more important. Also there is a difference between air RH and RH at the surface of the cake. 1) I did it anyway to see what happens. 2) for further experiments one could remove inner tub from outer tub to get a change in fruiting chamber RH and one could put holes on the bottom of the inner tube, which should promote evaporation within/on the cake.


3. Preliminary Results:

Just to repeat from the context section: this is the 6th!!! flush on a by now spent cake...

First surprise: 24 hours after i finished the dunk the first pin had formed! Not primordial knot, but a full blown pin! Reading on shroomery and from past experience this is usually more like 5-7 days.

Second surprise: A week later there are tons of primordia, pins and fruits!!! In comparison using my old method: the first flush went pretty good for me, but starting with the second flush there was a lot of side pinning and the latter flushes had few fruits in few spots growing. The cake looks much healthier on its 6th flush than ever before. Call me a fool and tell me I did something wrong the flushes before, but in this case my experiment was a full success, since I found a fool-proof method!

Caveat: While the cake is doing great, it is still spent... this unfortunately shows in the fact that there is no fruit bigger than an inch. I would think they are aborts, but I reconized something about them today: They seem to tear their veil in some strange way. At first I saw only one fruit with a defect in its stem, but now I see a lot of fruits doing it. So I think they aren't actually aborts, just very small fruits sporelating. Please let me know if you have input on these dwarves... aborts don't usually rip, do they?


4. Disclaimer:

I know about "BOD's Easy AF UnBODified Monotub TEK", which is pretty much set and forget + it's proven. This is not about coming up with the best tek/setup by the best grower (which I am certainly and awarely not - I am just a newb). It's about the pleasure of finding alternative ways and understanding why they work or don't.

EDIT: I just plucked some of the "defect looking aborts" and can say on closer inspections that they have veils and they broke them (or were about to break them). The smallest ones with teared veils are ~1cm small.

Edited by franko142 (11/05/18 03:30 AM)

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Can some cultivator review my experimental set-and-forget setup? [Re: franko142]
    #25593135 - 11/05/18 05:17 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Water in a dish only creates about 50% humidity.

If you want set and forget make 12 or more cakes and put them in a sgfc. Requires no more misting than brushing your teeth twice a day. And if you need you can be gone 2-3+ days. So its great if you're home once a day to once every other day.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Can some cultivator review my experimental set-and-forget setup? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25593166 - 11/05/18 05:50 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

You mist your mouth when brushing your teeth?

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Offlinefranko142
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Re: Can some cultivator review my experimental set-and-forget setup? [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25593956 - 11/05/18 12:56 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

@bodhisatta: What do you mean a dish of water creates 50% RH? In Singapore e.g. you have ~80-90% RH just in normal, sunny outdoors weather. In that case a glass of water would lower the RH? If you have a dish of water in a sealed off space the RH will always reach 100% eventually. It doesn't even matter how big the space is as long as there is enough water to not completely evaporate.

(e.g. source: http://www.atmo.arizona.edu/students/courselinks/fall14/atmo170a1s2/lecture_notes/humidity/saturation.html)

Am I misunderstanding you?

Also since I got your attention... I am surprised you mention the SGFC... (why) would you recommend it over your unmodified tub tek? That one seemed more appealing to me...

Edited by franko142 (11/05/18 12:58 PM)

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Re: Can some cultivator review my experimental set-and-forget setup? [Re: franko142]
    #25594044 - 11/05/18 01:53 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

If you put water in a container the humidity it creates is around 50%.
A test to calibrate hygrometers is to put saltwater into Tupperware with your hygrometer and set it to 75%. Different salts and salt concentrations make reliable humidities in enclosed containers. Saturated solution of sodium chloride gives 75%. Lithium chloride gives 33%.

I would recommend the sgfc over my tub because you're doing cakes so you need a fruiting chamber for cakes. My tub tek is for tub sized bulk substrates

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Offlinefranko142
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Re: Can some cultivator review my experimental set-and-forget setup? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25594073 - 11/05/18 02:20 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Oh i see now why you mentioned the SGFC. I just so happen to have a cake this time, but if I would grow again I probably would go for bulk... but that's a different topic I guess...

In regards to the RH of water in a container I am afraid you are incorrect though. I hope you didn't calibrate any hygrometers this way! Water produces 100% RH (see link above). If you have "_saturated salt solutions_" you can calibrate to different levels of RH. "Salt water" on the other hand is just a diluted solution and you can't really calibrate to anything useful at all as long as your calculations aren't on point.

These discussions have some pointers if you are involved in the topic:
https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_to_generate_a_constant_high_relative_humidity_for_the_storage_of_rocks
https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_I_can_maintain_constant_relative_humidity_in_an_experiment

If you are not involved just simply remember:
Water -> 100% RH
Salt water -> less than 100% RH, but probably close
Damp salt -> something like 75% RH (depending on type of salt)

I appreciate the clarification though!

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Re: Can some cultivator review my experimental set-and-forget setup? [Re: franko142]
    #25594098 - 11/05/18 02:36 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Some salts give higher and lower vapor pressures vs pure water. You can look up calibration standards and probably even find a pdf chart.

Plain water itself doesn't create 100% otherwise that would be used to calibrate hydrometers to 100% instead of having to wrap them in a wet towel to do it.

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Offlinefranko142
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Re: Can some cultivator review my experimental set-and-forget setup? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25594485 - 11/05/18 05:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

The question why a hyGrometer (hydrometer doesn't measure humidity) isn't calibrated to 100% with a wet towel, is a great question! It exactly proves my point!

You cannot possibly calibrate a hygrometer with water exactly _because_ you would need to calibrate it to 100%. That wouldn't work however! If you don't understand why, imagine you would instead try to calibrate an alcohol testing device (as used by police) with a sober person... no matter how you calibrate it, it would _always_ correctly show the sober person to be sober (because there is no alcohol in his breath) and basically _never_ show correctly how drunk a drunk person would be.

Even though that should be proof enough for water causing 100% RH, you could look at it from your perspective as well. If water would create (let's just say) 50% RH... why would anyone mess around with salt solutions instead of calibrating for 50% with water. Seems a whole lot easier and cheaper to me than messing with salts.

I take it you don't have anything to do with thermodynamics, which is totally fine and therefor understandable to have a missunderstanding of the physics at work. Also I don't care too much wether you got it right or not... however esp. with the high standing you have in this community (opposed to my standing) please understand that people look up to you and your opinion! So if you have a disagreement with someone (like here) people give your words a heavier weight. And with great power... comes great responsibility :P There is no shame in not knowing something, but please don't claim to know untrue information. People will read your words, trust you and next thing you know they kill themselves because their diy contraption ran at 100% instead of 50% RH...

So again if anyone is reading here, don't take bod's or my word for it. Just check the literature (or any of the links i shared).

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