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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #28757614 -

Fixed the link...

Cool will be awesome if it sprouts from leaves like psychotria


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28771095 -

modern.shaman said:
Fixed the link...

Cool will be awesome if it sprouts from leaves like psychotria


How have your plants been shaman?  Any interesting growth showing up?  From what I can see I also think that these might take more than one year to flower.  What I thought was going to be a the downward-pointing flower stalk/inflorescence just ended up being more growth on the primary stalk/node.  The tallest plant is about 4.5 feet tall give or take.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #28772012 -

Mine are not that large my largest maybe 2.5-MAX 3 feet I'll need to check. I have too many in a somewhat small pot so stunting a bit. I also trimmed back the older leaves only leaving the 5 newest leaves.

I am getting new sprouts on the stem where I cut and some near the base. I've started to water 2x a week since starting to dry out faster. IDK if these are short day flowering or what but little cultivation info on these online.

EDIT: The largest is around 2-2.25 feet.


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Edited by modern.shaman (05/12/24 03:39 PM)

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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex]
    #28773568 -

Mycoplex said:
The tallest plant is about 4.5 feet tall give or take.


I measured my tallest plant tonight and it's just a bit over 3 feet so my original estimate was way over, in reality they are not that much taller than yours shaman.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #28777419 -

Soma was Ephedra!

Still this plant you are growing seams really cool!

Soma is a mysterious drug of Vedic Hinduism in India. It has its analogous to the Haoma of the Zoroastrian Aryan people of the Middle east. The shared text of Zoraoastrianism and Hinduism originated from the ancient Aryan people. The ancient Aryans are widely believed to originated from the Sintashta culture that occupied an area in present day Kazakhstan and Russia around 2000B.C..  Soma/Haoma was a drug of religious importance, but its identity is a subject of debate. Clues about this mystery drug could be gleaned from the religious texts. One such clue is that the urine of a person that has consumed soma/Hoaoma has the same properties as soma/Haoma. Another is that the plant or fungi lacked leaves and had fleshy stalks. The effects of Haoma are described in the Yasna 9.22, as granting "speed and strength to warriors, excellent and righteous sons to those giving birth, spiritual power and knowledge to those who apply themselves to the study of the nasks”. Almost every known drug has been proposed as Soma/Haoma. Most theories have gained little to no traction.
Perhaps the most famous theory is that it was Amanita muscaria. It is known that Amanita muscarias active ingredient passes unchanged into urine, for this reason mainly it was assumed to be the source of Haoma /Soma. The second strongest argument is that Soma is described as leafless and fleshy, Amanitias do not have leaves and are fleshy. The Vedas do not describe roots, stems, flowers, or fruit of Soma, for that reason Wasson who proposed the Amanita theory assumed that Soma did not have these features. However, the Vedas only mention that it is leafless and do not specify that Soma lacks any of those other features. The other problem is that Amanita muscaria is usually sedating opposed to stimulating and has no traditional use for aiding childbirth. Finally, there is the problem that Amanita is rare to not present in areas inhabited by Zoroastrain and Hindi people.
The most convincing candidate for Soma/Haoma is Ephedra. Ephedrine the active ingredient, also passes unchanged into urine. Ephedra plants also lack traditional leaves and is mostly non-woody which could explain the description of fleshy stems. The effects of Ephedra line up perfectly with Soma/Haoma. Ephedra is stimulating thus could, enhance awareness, alertness, increase speed, increase strength, and be good for studying texts, ephedrine also aids in birthing and is still used today to prevent and treat maternal arterial hypotension and to avoid intrapartum fetal asphyxia. Ephedra grows in the region occupied by the Sintashta culture and the Aryan Zoroastrian people. The most convincing point is that during the Zoroastrian Haoma ceremony Ephedra is used (Zoroastrianism: An Introduction By Jenny Rose). As well as the fact that Zoroastrian people of Iran use Ephedra and refer to it a homa (Aitchison, 1888).
When the Aryan people migrated to Northwestern India they left the range of Ephedra plants. They referred to the land that Soma is from as Sharyanavat which means ‘abounding with reeds’ and Ephedra has an appearance similar to reeds(https://www.vedanet.com/the-secret-of-the-soma-plant/#:~:text=Sharyanavat%2C%20the%20main%20Rigvedic%20Soma,the%20best%20of%20the%20Somas, Vamadeva Shastri, June, 13, 2016, The Original Soma: One Plant or Many). Beacause Soma/Homa was unavailable they used other plants in its place, such as Sarcostemma acidum called “Soma creeper” which appearing leafless and resembles Ephedra(Singh, N. P. (1988). Flora of Eastern Karnataka, Volume 1. Mittal Publications. p. 416. ISBN 9788170990673.). Given all this Soma/Haoma was almost certainly an Ephedra species and not Amanita or some other plant.

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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Longtimenosee] * 1
    #28777631 -

Did you watch the OP video? Near the end he gives a pretty good reasoning for his SOMA plant suggestion. In the end it doesn't matter much


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28777895 -

After getting a few leaves to root successfully on their own, still no luck in seeing the leaf create a new shoot but I'll be patient.  The rooted leaves look decent but no sign of them developing something.


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Edited by Mycoplex (05/17/24 07:53 PM)

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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 2
    #28786459 -

In the past I got caapi and other leaves to root but they never sprouted... maybe it works thought don't give up on them.

I came upon this website with more reports from Juilian. Includes another 3 trip reports and I'm pretty excited to have this plant. I'm doing an extract just to see but my material is still young so maybe a bust.

Whoever wants to kill spare time... pretty interesting read.
https://julianpalmerism.com/phyllodium-soma/


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28787410 -

I finished the whole article, shaman.  Nice read and it's great to see more of his perspective on the plant, before this I had just seen the first talk in the OP.

In this article, he also links to a copy of Trout's Notes for Desmodium which was a nice find too.

He mentions fermentation in the article, but to just make the basic tea itself does it require anything other than seeping the leaves in hot water?  He makes the claim that the leaves don't keep well and that they should be used after harvesting, but I think we showed even in this thread that they can seemingly keep.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 2
    #28787604 -

Yea they keep well and the texture after dry is leathery and not brittle and doesn't break easily. Unless this trait changes when more mature.

So I did an extract with 19g and had a tiny yield I'd guess around 1mg if that. My plant is still only 6 months old. Smells similar to the usually plastic flower smell but much more floral and less plastic. Even with a defat came out as a yellowish/red wax when scraped... too small a yield to clean.

I'm most interesting in the amounts he shared trying and using less abstract description of the effects he got. In the future I hope to experiment more with this plant but I find it quite attractive as a corner plant. Growth is interesting.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28819473 -

Hey modern have you had any new discoveries with your plants?  How are they reacting to the fall season in your region?  My tallest plant is now over 5.5 feet fall but still has no sign of flowering at all.  It started focusing on side branches so now it's one really tall stem with 2 medium branches growing out horizontally.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #28819818 -

Yea mine are starting quite a few side shoots near base of the leaves... I had a new sprout in my community pot. Its growing better in the slightly cooler temps since gets quite toasty in the summer. Same as many cacti are growing faster now... I suspect they save the excess energy/sunlight in some form and are now growing.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #28828266 -

Mycoplex said:
Hey modern have you had any new discoveries with your plants?  How are they reacting to the fall season in your region?  My tallest plant is now over 5.5 feet fall but still has no sign of flowering at all.  It started focusing on side branches so now it's one really tall stem with 2 medium branches growing out horizontally.


Besides the side shoots something new I've noticed since temps and sunlight has dropped is the plant has become upright on its own. Before I adding a string to tie them together since they wanted to grow lower but they decided to go almost completely straight now.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28834708 -

Good notes modern.  I brought my largest specimen in to take a photo of it, it's just over 5 feet tall.

Everything along the middle of the plant is lateral horizontal side shoots.  For the main stem I've been following your advice in cutting back the lower leaves slowly over time.

It's sort of difficult to photograph this plant effectively, but as it gets older I think the overall look will be more compelling, like when it's at the age where it flowers it's really jaw dropping.

One thing I've been pondering is that in some of the photos of this plant, even in the beginning of this thread there are examples where a plant that is barely above ground level is also flowering.  Are these just mature side shoots or something that are old enough to flower?  I assumed only tall specimens will flower it looks like small specimens can too.  But what triggers it and how long does it take?



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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #28835086 -

Yea IDK what triggers flowering. Mine are maybe 3 feet tall now but are pretty root bound since I planted all in one planter. I had another seed germinate :smile:


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28837787 -

Congrats.  Do you mean that a seed that you recently sowed germinated, or was it one of the ones you had planted back in December that finally now germinated?  Good work either way, every seedling that germinates is worth saving.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #28838043 -

Seeds that were sown back in December have recently germinated.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28865433 -

I'm going to try applying a flowering-specific fertilizer to see if I can induce flowering that way.  Aka, a fertilizer formula that is low in nitrogen but higher in P and K.  I think that if the plant gets too much nitrogen it will just keep focusing on the foliage.  Just an idea.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: Mycoplex] * 1
    #28865764 -

I mean it should be nitrogen fixing and doesn't need N applied. Mine is growing without issues without fertilizing for many months now. I do have some purple leafs I think from cold temps.


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Re: Phyllodium pulchellum, the ancient Soma? Grow-Log & Discussion [Re: modern.shaman]
    #28935827 -

So I'll only be growing this plant for a few more months hoping for spring flowers. I'll chop down and replace with another plant since I got zero yield from 100g DRY. I either have the wrong species or something else is wrong. It isn't my extraction technique since I've got enough experience now.

I would grow this if I had the room even if inactive however I have limited grow space so it will be culled.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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