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OfflineBigGreenMat
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Registered: 11/04/13
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Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar
    #25561500 - 10/23/18 08:31 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

So I have been growing for years, but always seem to have issues pop up when going to grain from agar.  I will have fine agar to agar transfers, but as soon as I transfer to grain my contamination rates skyrocket to 50% or more. I PC my grains for 2 hours in my pressure cooker.  I have used both pp5 containers and glass quart jars.  Currently I am using glass quart jars with plastic lids and sterile filter discs for gas exchange.  I was under the impression that these discs can be reused, but I am worried that maybe the discs are transferring contamination.  Is it possible that the discs once exposed to contams will hold and transfer them?  Is it possible that upon shaking the jars I am allowing some contams to get through small gaps in the lid or disc due to flexion?  I am attaching pics of the lids I am using. I have tested using a lid without a hole and I still got one that contaminated.  Right now I am thinking that it is the jar shaking and agitation that is somehow letting contamination get in, but you can see how the discs are stained so I also wonder if that could be it too.  Any help?  Almost all my jars are contaminating eventually upon shaking or expansion.


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OfflineBLINKfan420
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #25561594 - 10/23/18 09:00 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

:threadmonitor:


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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #25561602 - 10/23/18 09:03 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Those disks are absolutely reusable even if they get contaminated.  Might want to wash em a bit, but, whatever is in there will die in the PC.  Im using ones that are all stained from mold right now.

It's pretty darned frustrating to go through what you are going through, all I can suggest is trying metal lids for a run in case there is something going on with those plastic ones.


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: BLINKfan420]
    #25561610 - 10/23/18 09:04 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

do you use a SAB? filter disc is good for reuse what filter size are those? 2hrs pc time at what PSI?

ive had terrible run running 2hrs at 15psi for grains, I moved to doing 2-2.5hrs @ 20 psi these days


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OfflineTormatoMFacebookDiscordReddit
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: BLINKfan420]
    #25561613 - 10/23/18 09:05 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Are you doing A2G using a flow hood or SAB?

If the disks have been exposed to conatms, as long as you wash the jars and lids and PC correctly they will re-sterilize.

What PSI is your PC set at?


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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: pablokabute]
    #25561649 - 10/23/18 09:14 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I moved to doing 2-2.5hrs @ 20 psi these days




WTF?  Do you live in the Himalayas?


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25561655 - 10/23/18 09:15 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

i pc at 18-20psi:shrug:

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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25561662 - 10/23/18 09:17 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
Quote:

I moved to doing 2-2.5hrs @ 20 psi these days




WTF?  Do you live in the Himalayas?





i live in the subtropics but my guess is my AA pressure gauge is fucked. 2hrs @ 15psi gives me bacterial contam even in the unopened control jars. 2hrs @ 20 psi gives me peace of mind, not to mention perfect sterilization. ive wasted around 50lbs of grains before i made the move.


--------------------

Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..

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InvisibleTookitooki
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: Tormato]
    #25561666 - 10/23/18 09:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

If the same sfd and lid keep failing, Toss them.  I have had brand new sfd be bad.    Once I weened out the bad ones, I was good. 

You say sterile filter disc,. Is that a polypropylene or a  cellulose/fabric based disc?  I can't really tell from picture. Sfd should stand for synthetic filter disc.

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Offlinewillwont
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25561672 - 10/23/18 09:20 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Just out of curiosity what is the average expected contam rate when transferring from agar to grain vs lc vs li ?

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: pablokabute]
    #25561677 - 10/23/18 09:21 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Ive never seen a PC designed to go above 15 PSI.

Do those All American ones do it or something?  Is that what you get for the extra $$$ they cost?


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25561696 - 10/23/18 09:26 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

taped some quarters to my rocker so it weighs more. more weight=higher temp=higher psi. you should be able to do that to any pc that uses a weight thingy.:rolleyes:

also runs quietly and barely looses any water:thumbup:

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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25561702 - 10/23/18 09:27 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
Ive never seen a PC designed to go above 15 PSI.

Do those All American ones do it or something?  Is that what you get for the extra $$$ they cost?




my pc is an old school AA I bought second hand, an antique, the gauge reads 30psi max and vents off pressure once you reach 30psi, vents off until it reads 20psi again, new designs has weights that lets you set the exact pressure before venting off.. if shipping cost werent too prohibitive, id buy a new gauge and maybe 1 wing nut, 1 wing nut of mine got fucked while tightening it up with a pliers xD


--------------------

Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: mushboy]
    #25561732 - 10/23/18 09:39 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

What kind of grains are you using?  Is it stuff that's made for human consumption? 

Or is it horse feed?

Im having trouble understanding why sterilization at 20PSI or 2.5 hours would be necessary. 

1.5 hours at 15PSI works great for me.  Organic rye I can get cheap from an organic  foods distributor.


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25561765 - 10/23/18 09:51 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
What kind of grains are you using?  Is it stuff that's made for human consumption? 

Or is it horse feed?

Im having trouble understanding why sterilization at 20PSI or 2.5 hours would be necessary. 

1.5 hours at 15PSI works great for me.  Organic rye I can get cheap from an organic  foods distributor.





I use whole oats, if organic rye was available here, id be eating that shit so me and the mushies eat the same thing, anything labeled organic here fetches 2-5x the original price, thats if its available(I have seen organic rye thru this elitist shop called Healthy Options)

i live in a 3rd world country where genocide is rampant,


--------------------

Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..

Edited by pablokabute (10/23/18 09:53 PM)

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OfflineBigGreenMat
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: pablokabute]
    #25561801 - 10/23/18 10:07 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I am using a SAB.  I have been doing everything I can to ensure no air flow.
I wipe down the box and then use soapy water on the walls.  I wear gloves and tyvek sleeves and wipe stuff down with 70% alcohol while trying to make sure I never have anything over an open jar or plate. Yes, SFD means synthetic filter discs.  My SFDs are from mycosupply.com. I am using whole oats meant for horse consumption.  PC is at 15 psi.  I am near sea level.  Maybe I will try an extra quarter on the steam weight.


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OfflineBigGreenMat
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #25561840 - 10/23/18 10:16 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Do you all think that banging the jars when breaking up the grains before doing a G2G or to mix up the mycelium to distribute it evenly in the jar after 30% colonization could allow in contaminants?


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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #25561856 - 10/23/18 10:23 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BigGreenMat said:
Do you all think that banging the jars when breaking up the grains before doing a G2G or to mix up the mycelium to distribute it evenly in the jar after 30% colonization could allow in contaminants?





when the filter is failing, most probably, ive never used SFDs, just polyester. you can actually cut a small SFD and stick it with a hi temp rtv silicon to ensure a proper seal. Ive never used SFD but been wanting to since Ive seen it.


--------------------

Fermented Mushrooms!!
--- https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23378638/fpart/1/vc/1

'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..

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InvisibleTookitooki
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: pablokabute]
    #25562383 - 10/24/18 06:06 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

If you can't load a video of your SAB session so we can help figure out what or where it's going wrong, try your best to give us details of your SAB procedures. What are you doing with your lids when you are dropping the ager in to the jar.  You setting it down or holding it.

I run my lids the same as you.  I shake mine and have no issues with shake.

After you PC, are you letting then cool in the PC or outside?  Do you tighten your lids all the way before you PC or leave a little loose?

The more details provided, the better chance we can help you solve this.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Issues with Contamination when going to grain from Agar [Re: pablokabute]
    #25562859 - 10/24/18 09:59 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pablokabute said:
2hrs @ 15psi gives me bacterial contam even in the unopened control jars. 2hrs @ 20 psi gives me peace of mind, not to mention perfect sterilization. ive wasted around 50lbs of grains before i made the move.




It sounds like you're failing to allow steam to escape for several minutes before putting on the weight or closing the toggle.  It is very important to get all the air out of the PC and replace it with steam.  Otherwise, you're building air pressure rather than steam pressure and the temp will be much lower.

After proper venting, 15 psi for 90 minutes is going to sterilize the grains sufficiently to get them colonized, assuming quart/liter jars.  Use two hours for larger spawn bags, and keep them separated so steam can pass between, under and over each bag.
RR


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