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Invisiblefireblaze
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Registered: 10/10/18
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Soft back "inflatable" flow hood
    #25561069 - 10/23/18 06:00 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I'm just getting started with the intent of growing edibles and decided I should start with agar so I can preserve the cultures long term, which lead to wanting a flow hood... (yep, another noobie with a flow hood question)

I ordered a Microguard 99 24x24x5_7/8" HEPA and a Spal 017-A39-22 Blower but haven't had the time to build a cabinet yet, so to quickly test them for issues I taped plastic sheeting between them, then I started thinking, why not just make a more permanent soft plenum for it?...  Plus since I also have limited space to store a large cabinet, having it be smaller when not in use would also be great!

I was wondering if anyone has ever made or heard of an "inflatable" or soft back plenum for a flow hood?  I searched a bit on the forums and did a google image search for 'flow hood' and scanned through the pictures too, but couldn't find any...

My idea is to mount the blower atop the HEPA, output facing rear, box it in and add a pre-filter on top; put grates on both sides of the HEPA so the fins don't get damaged by bumps, then make a 12" plenum from coated fabric with some internal netting to hold the shape (since a curved surface may redirect airflow).  I figure as long as I can maintain the requisite static pressure without having any airflow directly at the HEPA (potentially causing an uneven flow) I should be good.
Thoughts?


Edited: 2018/10/24 to add mockups (assembled and exploded)
The dark grey box/area is the soft fabric plenum.  There are grates on either side of the HEPA for protection and my dual squirrel blower is encased in wood atop the HEPA (with a pre-filter on top of that).  The light colored box on the front would be plexiglass to keep the laminar flow going 8ish inches in front of the filter and is on hinges to fold away (don't mind the gap on the bottom one, it's a mistake in the mockup).  The attachment method for the plenum isn't shown (wasn't really thinking of it when I did the mockup).
When not in use, the dark grey plenum would deflate and lay flat against the rear grate and the front plexiglass would fold in, leaving a box about 24" x 32" x 8" (which I'd store in a bag to keep dust off and find a safe corner to stuff it away in).





Edited: 2018/11/01 to add frame mockups
There are 5 pieces to the frame:
- the blower box (contains pre-filter and any electronics)
- the blower box back (blower mounted to it)
- blower box pre-filter holder top (forgot to mockup, but same as pre-filter lower framing)
- front frame (plexiglass shield mounted to it via piano hinges)
- rear frame (soft plenum mounted to it, still playing with that mounting idea)
Anywhere these pieces come together there will be adhesive foam (including where front/back of HEPA touches frame), everything held together using tensioned string through eyelets.




Edited by fireblaze (11/01/18 06:38 PM)

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Offlinefoodguy
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: fireblaze]
    #25561089 - 10/23/18 06:09 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I envision a blower on the table with a big bag taped to it and then taped around the back of the filter. I think the biggest reason you don't see this is HEPAs are not cheap and without the box, damage is inevitable.

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Invisiblefireblaze
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: foodguy]
    #25561138 - 10/23/18 06:27 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

foodguy said:
I envision a blower on the table with a big bag taped to it and then taped around the back of the filter. I think the biggest reason you don't see this is HEPAs are not cheap and without the box, damage is inevitable.




ha ha, that's exactly what I did to test the blower/filter when they arrived.  They're back in their boxes now waiting for me to build something more permanent.

That was one of my concerns though, I didn't mention it before, but on the front I'll have hinged clear sides that will fold in (over the grate) which should protect the front, the back however now that you mention it, offsetting the rear grate and inch off the filter should provide a bit better protection against anything hitting/rubbing the back...

But yes, you're right, this design would not provide as much protection to the HEPA as a standard design...

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: fireblaze]
    #25561158 - 10/23/18 06:33 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

shmuvbox?

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: fireblaze]
    #25561167 - 10/23/18 06:36 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I like the idea.  It actually sounds like it would be easier to construct if you could find ideal soft materials to do it with.  I don't know what those materials would be though but Im sure they exist.

Measuring, cutting and attaching wood together is kind of shitty to do in an apartment or whatever, which is where a lot of us live.  Straight neighbours don't do that.  They come home after work, drink alcohol and watch TV.  If you don't do that too, you are probably some kind of terrorist.

Using a tube made of flexible, compatible material to go between fan and filter would be discreet.


--------------------
 

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25561187 - 10/23/18 06:44 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Not the worst idea I've ever heard.


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OfflineTormatoMFacebookDiscordReddit
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: mushboy]
    #25561191 - 10/23/18 06:46 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
shmuvbox?



Almost sounds like it...

This OP? ------> Shmuvbox


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Invisiblefireblaze
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: Tormato]
    #25561458 - 10/23/18 08:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
shmuvbox?




Quote:

Tormato said:
Quote:

mushboy said:
shmuvbox?



Almost sounds like it...

This OP? ------> Shmuvbox




Neat idea...  will definitely give it a read...
Nope, when turned on, mine would resemble a typical flow hood with a blower on top of a big HEPA and plenum on the back, except for instead of the plenum made of wood it would be a plasticized cloth (built out to give a box like look similar to a wood one would).  Turn it off and the plenum would just deflate.  Work would still be done opposite the plenum in the laminar flow.

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
I like the idea.  It actually sounds like it would be easier to construct if you could find ideal soft materials to do it with.  I don't know what those materials would be though but Im sure they exist.

Measuring, cutting and attaching wood together is kind of shitty to do in an apartment or whatever, which is where a lot of us live.  Straight neighbours don't do that.  They come home after work, drink alcohol and watch TV.  If you don't do that too, you are probably some kind of terrorist.

Using a tube made of flexible, compatible material to go between fan and filter would be discreet.




I was thinking of using something similar to PVC coated fabric like they use on inflatable boats and glueing the seams together, although I haven't come up with a satisfactory idea to attach it to the HEPA, but I have a few I'm considering.  I am going to complicate the internal design a bit by glueing in some netting to hold the edges at sharp right angles; my reasoning is I think any airflow re-directed by rounded corners towards the filter face might cause an uneven flow out the front.

Quote:

LotKid said:
Not the worst idea I've ever heard.




Not the best either :smile:



I'll try to find some time tomorrow or mock up some sort of image of what I'm thinking...

Ideas are best when bounced around to improve and filter out potential flaws...  If I do build in this direction, I'll definitely document it incase anyone wants to duplicate it.

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: fireblaze]
    #25561479 - 10/23/18 08:25 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

You'll still need something to hold the blower. It shouldn't blow directly at the filter.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: fireblaze]
    #25561483 - 10/23/18 08:27 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Have you considered some kind of compression fitting to attach the flexible plenum to the filter?  Would make it convenient should the need to dismantle it ever arises.


--------------------
 

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: LotKid]
    #25561529 - 10/23/18 08:41 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
Not the worst idea I've ever heard.



My first thought too.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

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Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

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EZEKIEL 23:20

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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #25561549 - 10/23/18 08:48 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
You'll still need something to hold the blower. It shouldn't blow directly at the filter.




Pvc stand inside the bag for it to point downward.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20

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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25561900 - 10/23/18 10:47 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

What about using the same stuff they use to make grow tents...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-100-REFLECTIVE-FABRIC-FILM-BLACKOUT-GROW-TENT-NYLON-MYLAR-SKIN-5-Ft-Roll/120735142283?hash=item1c1c60118b:g:qeEAAOSw~uhUpuXD:rk:3:pf:0

It should be fairly sturdy and airtight. You can stitch it together so that it is a box shape when inflated.

On the top side of the fabric, you can fasten something like this... 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Inch-Flange-Duct-Connector-Grow-Tent-Go-Through-Wall-Roof-w-Screws-and-Bolts/173332734223?hash=item285b6fa10f:g:BDQAAOSw3fZaIJYY:sc:USPSFirstClass!19709!US!-1:rk:4:pf:0

Then just run dryer duct from your blower to the flange.


:shrug:


--------------------

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25562538 - 10/24/18 07:45 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
You'll still need something to hold the blower. It shouldn't blow directly at the filter.




Pvc stand inside the bag for it to point downward.




That'd end up breaking. Also kinda defeats the point.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #25562543 - 10/24/18 07:48 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Op if you end up trying this edit your original post to show the setup.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20

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Invisiblefireblaze
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25564351 - 10/24/18 06:18 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
You'll still need something to hold the blower. It shouldn't blow directly at the filter.




The plan is to build a wood enclosure mounted on top of the HEPA (mine is wood framed), taking in air through a pre-filter on top and sending it out the rear of that enclosure.  The plenum would then be the width of the filter and the height of the filter plus the height of the blower box.


Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
Have you considered some kind of compression fitting to attach the flexible plenum to the filter?  Would make it convenient should the need to dismantle it ever arises.




Earlier on I was thinking to just attach it to the filter frame, but I did start thinking about something similar to this (for maintenance/repairs/etc).  It's not in the mockups (wasn't really thinking about attachment methods while making that and SketchUp is a PITA since I rarely use it).  Prompted by your term "compress fitting", I was pondering maybe using 2x wood frames (of 1" x 1/2"), one for the front of the filter (with hinged plexiglass attached) and one on the back with the plenum attached, both padded on the filter side with adhesive foam.  Then hook the two together with elastic (using nails and hooks) or weaving a string along them (shoelace style) to keep the seals...


Quote:

LotKid said:
What about using the same stuff they use to make grow tents...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-100-REFLECTIVE-FABRIC-FILM-BLACKOUT-GROW-TENT-NYLON-MYLAR-SKIN-5-Ft-Roll/120735142283?hash=item1c1c60118b:g:qeEAAOSw~uhUpuXD:rk:3:pf:0

It should be fairly sturdy and airtight. You can stitch it together so that it is a box shape when inflated.

On the top side of the fabric, you can fasten something like this... 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Inch-Flange-Duct-Connector-Grow-Tent-Go-Through-Wall-Roof-w-Screws-and-Bolts/173332734223?hash=item285b6fa10f:g:BDQAAOSw3fZaIJYY:sc:USPSFirstClass!19709!US!-1:rk:4:pf:0

Then just run dryer duct from your blower to the flange.

:shrug:




Thanks for the suggestion.  I was originally thinking using the material they use for inflatable boats, but that stuff looks pretty expensive; another thing I ran across was coated Nylon for kites/inflatables, but it's pretty thin, so I'd be a bit concerned about punctures/damage.  Your suggestion might be a better alternative, since anyone that's built a grow tent should have spare laying about (and I haven't even got to researching those teks yet).  I'm using a double squirrel blower in my design, but the duct flange is a good idea for anyone using an inline, just have to position it in some was to prevent direct flow into the HEPA.


Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Op if you end up trying this edit your original post to show the setup.




I edited my post to include some mockup images of what I was thinking of.  Since no one has brought up any potential issues other than the decreased protection of the HEPA (screens/grates should help).  I'll probably end up building this and will definitely post images of it and it's internals.

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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: fireblaze]
    #25564540 - 10/24/18 07:45 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Nice. :thumbup:


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20

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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25564779 - 10/24/18 09:20 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

You could build a small housing unit for your blower out of wood. You could build a changeable prefilter in one side and a flange for the dryer duct on the other. That really wouldn't be that difficult.

Instead of putting the flange on the top of the fabric, it could be placed on the bottom of either side. This would still give an indirect blow on the filter and would take stress off the inflated back.


--------------------

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OfflineExecratedShroom
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: LotKid]
    #25565031 - 10/24/18 11:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quick question: Where did you purchase the filter and blower?

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Invisiblefireblaze
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Re: Soft back "inflatable" flow hood [Re: ExecratedShroom]
    #25566794 - 10/25/18 03:34 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
You could build a small housing unit for your blower out of wood. You could build a changeable prefilter in one side and a flange for the dryer duct on the other. That really wouldn't be that difficult.

Instead of putting the flange on the top of the fabric, it could be placed on the bottom of either side. This would still give an indirect blow on the filter and would take stress off the inflated back.




Good thought, definitely has some good pro's to it:
- would make things a bit quieter moving the fan away
- lighter to move around being in multiple pieces, and easier to stuff away
- the blower could be used for other purposes too since it's not installed in the hood

For my build though, I'm leaning more towards keeping it all in one piece, but between your grow room tent plenum and multi-use blower/hose, anyone that already has those materials would just need to buy a HEPA...


Quote:

ExecratedShroom said:
Quick question: Where did you purchase the filter and blower?




I got them both on eBay; fan was a single listing, filter had 3, I got the last one (sorry).  The Spal fans are a bit more common to find online, they seem to be used in automotive AC's.  I paired it with an oversized 12v LED power supply (40A, at 400CFM I pull 8.9A).

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