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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Do these cakes look healthy to you?
    #25559130 - 10/22/18 09:06 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I've finally got my first pin (ever) tonight, but I'm a little concerned at how the cakes look.


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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25559137 - 10/22/18 09:11 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

They look a little dry to me...

I think shotguns are not the way to go, and Im not alone in this.  That blueing makes me think they might be drying out.


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InvisibleLitchlynn
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25559157 - 10/22/18 09:22 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Bruising on it means not enough moisture and the cakes themselves look pretty dry.


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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Litchlynn]
    #25559172 - 10/22/18 09:27 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

EDIT

I got a pin growing on one of them... my first pin ever... but they've been in the SGFC for a little over a week now. 

Do I dunk them again or just spray them down more often?

Edited by PrimeNumber (10/22/18 09:33 PM)

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OfflineGeinstein
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25559300 - 10/22/18 10:28 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
They look a little dry to me...

I think shotguns are not the way to go, and Im not alone in this.  That blueing makes me think they might be drying out.



:whathesaid:


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25559366 - 10/22/18 11:02 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimeNumber said:
I've finally got my first pin (ever) tonight, but I'm a little concerned at how the cakes look.





Even the perlite looks dry :crazy: do you normally mist the perlite and feel if it has dryed out or not?

This is something you will need to do depending on how dry house you live in. But don't worry too much about . Feel the perlite surface with your hand to see if it's very moist or mostly dried out. If it's on the dry side then remove the cakes and spray it down real good. Check the moisture again the next day and the next day for a few days. :goodluck:

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InvisibleLitchlynn
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25559367 - 10/22/18 11:02 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimeNumber said:
EDIT

I got a pin growing on one of them... my first pin ever... but they've been in the SGFC for a little over a week now. 

Do I dunk them again or just spray them down more often?




The room it's in might be too dry or giving it too much ventilation causing the water on the sides to dry out, try placing somewhere it can retain the moisture on the walls more and mist it when there is no visible moisture


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OfflineNoisecontrol
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Litchlynn]
    #25559625 - 10/23/18 04:01 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

SGFC are high maintenance if you've got a drafty room. Dunk n roll helps pinning. Aside from that everything that they said ^


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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Noisecontrol]
    #25560770 - 10/23/18 04:30 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, I hosed down the perlite.

Should I dunk the cakes again?  Is that okay even if one of them has a pin on it?

Maybe this is the last time I try to do the standard PF Tek.

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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25560779 - 10/23/18 04:33 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Just keep em glistening with proper misting. Dunk after first flush.


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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Mad Season]
    #25560843 - 10/23/18 04:52 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Thank you, sir.

It's that first flush I'm worried about.

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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25560919 - 10/23/18 05:17 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Should have let em consolidate longer is my bet. A week consolidation isnโ€™t the ideal length of time, more of the bare minimum. That way it does the consolidation in the jar where it wonโ€™t dry out, and can do the pinning in fruiting where it can take advantage of the evaporation occurring. Evaporation is an important pinning trigger. 2 weeks is much more ideal.

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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #25560960 - 10/23/18 05:30 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Should have let em consolidate longer is my bet. A week consolidation isnโ€™t the ideal length of time, more of the bare minimum. That way it does the consolidation in the jar where it wonโ€™t dry out, and can do the pinning in fruiting where it can take advantage of the evaporation occurring. Evaporation is an important pinning trigger. 2 weeks is much more ideal.



You're saying it's better after full colonization to let them sit for two weeks opposed to one? I'm in the process of getting the cakes. So just wanna take in this information while I can get it. The more i know before,the better.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #25560963 - 10/23/18 05:30 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Yep two weeks is better than one.

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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #25561612 - 10/23/18 09:05 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Yep two weeks is better than one.




Thanks to everybody, especially the trusted cultivators.

I definitely see the logic in what Pastywhyte said--but that's the first time I've ever encountered someone recommending 2 weeks of consolidation. 

My guess is the cakes in the picture were allowed to consolidate for 10 days.  They spent the week after that in the kitchen under 5k light with indirect sunlight, now they're in the bathroom with some direct sunlight.  I did NOT roll them in vermiculite after the dunk so that I could see possible contamination easier. 

I've started spritzing the cakes whenever they don't appear shiny and wet, which is often.  Either I've got a really dry apartment, the cakes are very thirsty, or both.

I've got one pin--my first pin--after nearly two weeks in the SGFC.  I am PRAYING for that little bastard lol.



Thanks, kings.

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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25567009 - 10/25/18 05:08 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

One of the cakes is getting especially snowy-white on bottom.

Still normal?  Healthy?



Also, it's been a couple days, and that one pin I had doesn't seem to be growing very much, I think he's retarded.

I didn't mention it before but I tried the bleach tek on three other cakes I haven't shown you from the same inoculation batch.  I think it killed them.

Any words of wisdom you have would be appreciated; my expectations are now extremely low for this batch, and I feel like this is just one more thing in life that I'm failing at.

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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25567017 - 10/25/18 05:12 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimeNumber said:
bleach



:horrified:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25567192 - 10/25/18 06:10 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimeNumber said:
One of the cakes is getting especially snowy-white on bottom.

Still normal?  Healthy?



Also, it's been a couple days, and that one pin I had doesn't seem to be growing very much, I think he's retarded.

I didn't mention it before but I tried the bleach tek on three other cakes I haven't shown you from the same inoculation batch.  I think it killed them.

Any words of wisdom you have would be appreciated; my expectations are now extremely low for this batch, and I feel like this is just one more thing in life that I'm failing at.




You have two different species in there. I suspect the snowy white is trich.

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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #25567207 - 10/25/18 06:14 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I suspect the snowy white is trich.



:snoopyes:


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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #25567398 - 10/25/18 07:28 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:  I suspect the snowy white is trich.




I suppose the thing to do is throw everything out, bleach everything, and start over, right?

I dunno guys.  I've lost faith in the PF Tek.  Or maybe my apartment is just filled with contaminants.  I thought fully colonized cakes were supposed to be contamination resistant.

I'm not giving up yet.  But I am NOT going to try to do the same thing again expecting different results.  I am PISSED--this was my 3rd attempt at cakes with nothing to show for it.

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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber] * 1
    #25567415 - 10/25/18 07:33 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Yup most likely trich.


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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Geinstein]
    #25567418 - 10/25/18 07:34 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I prefer bulk:  much easier and less stressful than cakes IMO... no need for bleach, antibacterial soap and warm water will suffice... are you using a PC? A SAB?  Flame sterilizing and NOT wiping the needle?


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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25567450 - 10/25/18 07:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

"are you using a PC? A SAB?  Flame sterilizing and NOT wiping the needle?"

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.

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OfflineNoisecontrol
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25567546 - 10/25/18 08:21 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

How long do you PC?


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Offlineasdflkj115
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25567560 - 10/25/18 08:27 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

hell no. unless you been squeezing them and its just bruising. and if thats the case quit touching em...

Edited by asdflkj115 (10/25/18 08:41 PM)

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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Noisecontrol]
    #25567566 - 10/25/18 08:29 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Noisecontrol said:
How long do you PC?




45-60 minutes

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OfflineNoisecontrol
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25567578 - 10/25/18 08:31 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

There's ya problem homie. 90-120

Also keep in mind contammed syringes DO happen


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Edited by Noisecontrol (10/25/18 08:33 PM)

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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Noisecontrol]
    #25567601 - 10/25/18 08:38 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Noisecontrol said:
There's ya problem homie. 90-120

Also keep in mind contammed syringes DO happen





Quote:

Ziran said:
3. Follow your pressure cookers instructions to bring it up to pressure (15 PSI) and let it cook for 45 to 60 minutes.




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086/fpart/1/vc/1

I hope everybody can see why a noob can get frustrated trying to follow the advice on this website.  Because there's a shitload of conflicting advice.  It's like trying to cut your way through the jungle sometimes.

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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25567636 - 10/25/18 08:50 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

That you can't get cakes to fruit said more about your skills/knowledge than is says about quality of the PF Tek :shrug:
I don't mean this in any negative way!!!

Why have you lost faith in it? I for one am so glad I know it inside and out and am doing it now a BIG project. For me this is like the dooms day Tek for growing mushrooms its so easy you could do it while travelling just bring some spore syringes (or make them on the road as well) this is what I think of the PF Tek and I'm sure you will too when you get the hang of it :super:

If you want I can start a new Pf Tek Grow-along thread in which we can all post and always have experienced growers there ready to help us with anything? I'll make the thread anyway and we'll see if you'll give it another shot! :mushroom2::heart:


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25567651 - 10/25/18 08:55 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimeNumber said:
Quote:

Noisecontrol said:
How long do you PC?




45-60 minutes



:nono: you don't sterilise substrates for only 45 min that's asking for trouble I think that's why your cakes contaminated to be honest.

The PC cycle has to make sure that maximum heat has reached the center of the substrate and then keep it there for an absolute minimum of 15 minutes. I would let my jars heat up for at least 60min and then I will let them go for another 30 min so 90 min at 18PSI is how I sterilise BRF cakes I wouldn't sterilise for shorter period than 90 min.


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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Mateja]
    #25567770 - 10/25/18 09:41 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

EDIT: I'm extremely bitter at the moment, sorry guys.

Edited by PrimeNumber (10/25/18 09:43 PM)

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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25568145 - 10/26/18 12:37 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Don't be bitter my first grow with cakes I was so excited I made PF cakes in everything I could find . . .it all contam every fucken last one of them got contam.

How ever that moment when you eat fresh mushes from your own hard work , there is only a few special moments in my live so far that compere or beats it. (I'm still young so I don't have as many experiences)

Keep on it, work hard on it.
This is the same as that girl you like slowly flirting back and then she gives you a kiss and so on . . . till your growing like a pro and giving all your friends free mushes - as I believe all mushes should be.


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OfflineNoisecontrol
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Geinstein] * 1
    #25568246 - 10/26/18 02:43 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Honestly man, I'll be as blunt as possible. This very thread is gonna be make or break for you in cultivating. You've been given the answer which will likely set your problem straight, what you choose to do with it and how you choose to feel about what's already done and unchangable will set the tone for your future experiences cultivating. A LOT of people fall off at this point because they fail to realize it's a learning process, as with anything. You can't just be perfect right off the bat. How do you think TC's got to their title? Persistence and a willingness to learn from their mistakes. I guarantee you if you spend less energy on being pissed about this loss (which is a really small loss by the way trust me shit can be a disaster), and more on focusing toward improvement, you'll be successful.

Take the red or blue pill, my friend. The choice is yours.


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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Noisecontrol]
    #25568619 - 10/26/18 08:59 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Frustration is a waste of time and energy... diligence will pay off


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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25568772 - 10/26/18 10:08 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Fr, syringe/agar,lc/grain/caseing
You know how many mini monos you could have in a RV and breaking bad that shit


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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: XnMe]
    #25569787 - 10/26/18 05:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

I've thrown out all my cakes.  The snowy-white turned green.  Definitely trichoderma.

I've done some troubleshooting in my mind as to what went wrong with my previous two batches.  Both were clearly contaminated with trichorderma after over a week in the SGFC.  There seem to be three likely culprits.

1)  Bad syringes, in which case, I should not be reordering the same variety from the same (very well regarded) provider.  I think this is unlikely, but certainly possible. 

2)  Inadequate pressure cooking.  If this is indeed the case, that I should be sterilizing for 90-120 minutes instead of 45-60, someone other than myself should have a talk with Ziran and his updated PF Tek advice.

3)  Dirty apartment.  I have a dog.  The trichoderma showed up after over a week in the SGFC; I think it's reasonable that my relatively unventilated, soft-ceiling tile bathroom, landed on the cakes while they were trying to pin.

I can order different spores and pressure cook for longer--and try to grow in my kitchen instead of my bathroom--but if trichoderma shows up after all of that, I'd say my apartment is fucked.

+++

I'm not giving up.  But I'm trying to isolate what went wrong, and I have it narrowed down to these three. 

Lastly, I'm not doing this hobby to have a good time, I'm doing it because I've been depressed as hell for the last several years, and shrooms actually help me feel better.  Failing at the PF Tek is taking a toll on me, but I'm not giving up.  I don't feel I have any other choice than to keep trying.

Last thing: Do I toss the perlite?  Do I toss the SGFCs?

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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25570428 - 10/26/18 10:59 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Master agar/lc,
then the world is yours bro


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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: XnMe]
    #25570646 - 10/27/18 03:17 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Although this is true ^ I wouldn't recommend LC to someone having cleanliness issues as LC is the epitome of needing to be clean


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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25570653 - 10/27/18 03:33 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


3)  Dirty apartment.  I have a dog.  The trichoderma showed up after over a week in the SGFC; I think it's reasonable that my relatively unventilated, soft-ceiling tile bathroom, landed on the cakes while they were trying to pin.




I have 3 dogs.

Keep your ops in the cleanest room possible (ideally non carpeted well ventilated room)

Was your FC without a lid?? How else could stuff from your ceiling land on your cakes?

You should also have an indirect fan in the room, NOT pointing at your FC but just blowing somewhere or oscillating. This hobby will teach you so much about air currents if you pay attention.

It is very likely that the trich was there before birthing so don't jump to the conclusion that your environment is the problem. Get your clean practices down then if you still have problems, look more into environment.

Dirty syringe is a viable conclusion only when you eliminate all other possibilities of contamination.

You're on the right track, here. Keep thinking critically about your circumstances and practices and you'll be carving out canopies in no time, brotato chip
:moralsupport:

P.s. Bleach water wash the perlite if you're gonna re-use it. Just make sure you're thorough; Soak it if you wanna be sure. Rinse well after draining.


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Edited by Noisecontrol (10/27/18 03:37 AM)

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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Noisecontrol]
    #25571182 - 10/27/18 10:44 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Check this out for an alternative to LC


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25574389 - 10/28/18 04:46 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Here is the PF Tek grow along if anyone wants to join me :cheers:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25574381


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OfflinePrimeNumber
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: Mateja]
    #25577883 - 10/30/18 02:26 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mateah said:
Here is the PF Tek grow along if anyone wants to join me :cheers:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25574381




Give me a few more days to regroup, I'll be there.


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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: PrimeNumber]
    #25577899 - 10/30/18 02:51 AM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimeNumber said:
I've thrown out all my cakes.  The snowy-white turned green.  Definitely trichoderma.

I've done some troubleshooting in my mind as to what went wrong with my previous two batches.  Both were clearly contaminated with trichorderma after over a week in the SGFC.  There seem to be three likely culprits.

1)  Bad syringes, in which case, I should not be reordering the same variety from the same (very well regarded) provider.  I think this is unlikely, but certainly possible. 

2)  Inadequate pressure cooking.  If this is indeed the case, that I should be sterilizing for 90-120 minutes instead of 45-60, someone other than myself should have a talk with Ziran and his updated PF Tek advice.

3)  Dirty apartment.  I have a dog.  The trichoderma showed up after over a week in the SGFC; I think it's reasonable that my relatively unventilated, soft-ceiling tile bathroom, landed on the cakes while they were trying to pin.

I can order different spores and pressure cook for longer--and try to grow in my kitchen instead of my bathroom--but if trichoderma shows up after all of that, I'd say my apartment is fucked.

+++

I'm not giving up.  But I'm trying to isolate what went wrong, and I have it narrowed down to these three. 

Lastly, I'm not doing this hobby to have a good time, I'm doing it because I've been depressed as hell for the last several years, and shrooms actually help me feel better.  Failing at the PF Tek is taking a toll on me, but I'm not giving up.  I don't feel I have any other choice than to keep trying.

Last thing: Do I toss the perlite?  Do I toss the SGFCs?





1. All prints and syringes are dirty. We clean up on agar, or try outgrow contam in PF cakes, or roll the die with direct inoculation.

2. For PF, the 90 minutes is a steam. If you can PC, then you reduce your sterilisation time. How did you PC them?

3. We all have varying levels of contam loads in our environments; I can't keep my cats out of the room I use for SAB work, and it's too damn hot here to keep the windows permanently closed in there. Review your procedures if you think it's your environment, 'cause I'll guarantee it's how you do things.

i.e. I bet it's you.

You will want to clean your SGFC and perlite.

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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Do these cakes look healthy to you? [Re: teladi]
    #25581794 - 10/31/18 01:22 PM (6 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teladi said:

1. All prints and syringes are dirty.




This is a necessary assumption for high success rates guys...


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