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P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test?
    #25557761 -

Hey all!

I am going to attempt fruiting P. zap and I wanted to know if anyone has any opinions on my planned substrate/fruiting plans.

From what I can gather, it appears that P. zap may be utilizing nutrients from wood organic matter, and people have used it in grows in the past.

I have 4 plans of attack and wanted to know what people think I should move forward with first.
I will be using LC from a MS print, probably T1 or T2 will be put to LC in the next week and the projects will start a week or so after that.

I was thinking of these 4 ways-
1. Use 75% grain and 25% hardwood sawdust as spawn- spawn to 1:1:1 coir:coarse verm:manure based compost (black kow) with a little gypsum.
5-7  days after full colonization, case with personal casing mix (8.5 parts jiffy, 1 part coarse verm, 0.5 part fine sand, add a little lime).

2. Use colonized grain to spawn to 1:1:1:1 sawdust:coir:verm:manure based compost with gypsum.
5-7  days after full colonization, case with personal casing mix (8.5 parts jiffy, 1 part coarse verm, 0.5 part fine sand, add a little lime).

3. Use colonized grain to spawn to 1:1:1 coir:coarse verm:manure based compost (black kow) with a little gypsum.
5-7  days after full colonization, case with personal casing mix (8.5 parts jiffy, 1 part coarse verm, 0.5 part fine sand, add a little lime).

4. Mix hydrated grain and 1:1:1:1 sawdust:coir:verm:manure based compost with gypsum all together and somewhat dry. Sterilize in bag (2.5-3 quart total). Inoculate with 60 mL LC, let colonize.
Spawn to shoebox, let colonize. 5-7  days after full colonization, case with personal casing mix (8.5 parts jiffy, 1 part coarse verm, 0.5 part fine sand, add a little lime) or
Let consolidate for 5-7 days after full colonization, open bag and case with personal casing mix and fruit in bag.

I could probably run 2 at a time with my other projects going on, I also can double things up and do a bootbox grow if the space and size of shoeboxes may be difficult for some reason.

Any thoughts/ideas on how to move forward? I don't mind just getting some prints this round and then using those for some real tests and moving this species further along.

:hug: :shroomeryhead:


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25557780 -

:popcorn:


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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something
- nick sand


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: Psicomb]
    #25558148 -

Glad to see an active P. zap grow! This is one I´ve been trying to get my hands on fo a while.
On what climate area are you going to try this out?

Good Luck!

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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: shroompy]
    #25558183 -

Indoor, Midwest USA


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25559279 -

I think you would want to go to agar first, as most of the P. zapotecorum prints going around are from wild fruits.

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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #25559338 -

It’s on agar now, I’ll have a clean T1 or T2 wedge to use to inoculate the LC


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25562270 -

What agar are you using?
I have P. cyan and a not so vital P. ovo which I want to put on agar..

Are you using h2o2 or antibiotics on your mix?

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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: shroompy]
    #25562347 -

I do use kanamycin in my plates

Half strength grain water agar. Germination took a week or so, then took off.

T1s transferred a few days ago. Hoping for it to be clean soon.

I think I was lucky, the print was large and cut in half and open faced on the foil, I’m surprised but my germ plate doesn’t appear to be dirty last I checked a few days ago


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25575894 -

:takingnotes:

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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25643353 -

Be sure to include 5% sand in the substrate and casing.  It is essential for the mycelium to fruit.


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γνῶθι σεαυτόν
gnōthi seauton
know thyself

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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: elfstone]
    #25643454 -

Do you hve data for this? I believe there are a few grows that have fruits without sand in the casing so is isn’t “essential”


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25644443 -

I've seen test casings on P. Tampanensis ATL 7 that showed an improvement with a bit of sand.. But nowhere about the essentialness of it

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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: shroompy]
    #25644466 -

yeah I add a small portion of fine sand into my casing, I just don't like the definitiveness of a statement like that without proof.

I am almost positive that ham or pasty (can't remember, think it was pasty) did zaps and did not have sand in the casing.


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25644476 -

I have since done a T1 LC that looked amazing.

Inoculated 1 qt of grain with 60 cc and got full colonization at 68F after 10 days (shake after 7).

I g2g into 3.5 more qt for ~4.5qt total spawn.

I'll spawn that to 3 qt substrate in 10-14 days once it is done colonizing. I will use the 1:1:1 coir:verm:black kow with gypsum and go from there as described in 3 in OP.

Planning on starting 1 (grain and HWFP) soon as a backup.

Even a few prints would be great! Can start a new generation.


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25651359 -

:takingnotes:


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“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
― George Orwell, 1984

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
― Albert Einstein

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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25651720 -

fishermansjc said:
Inoculated 1 qt of grain with 60 cc



Jesus Cristo man


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:volcano: Thanks too all :volcano:
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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: XnMe]
    #25651786 -

:shrug:

I made the grain dry on purpose and wanted lots of myc as I heard this was a slow growing species


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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
    #25651802 -

Indeed, i' I'm just, in awe


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:volcano: Thanks too all :volcano:
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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: XnMe]
    #25652131 -

:camping:


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🅂🄸🄶🄼🄰


Helpful Threads
stonesun
Mycolorado’s Tamp Fruit Project
Tampanensis Grow with Mycolorado
bw86's Jalisco Grow

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Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: Mycolorado]
    #25656252 -

Cool! I tried zaps on agar but couldn't work it out - print i used was invisible and didn't do much and a culture I get i am not sure was clean.

Isn't the habitat a bit like landslide mushrooms: wood and detritus?

I am interested in what sand is supposed to do. Isn't it inert? I haven't really heard about the mere structure of materials being important in substrate.

Are you sure this isn't based on mushrooms depending on landslide dynamics? Which would mean yeah you do want soil life present as facilitators but it's not really the soil or sand itself that is supposed to do anything.

In that same vein i went to collect muds and sands from creeks for fruiting subs among other species.


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    Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: Solipsis]
        #25656273 -

    The landslide might just be an adaptation to the environment.

    Spores get washed down the slopes and colonize on decomposing wood (? :shrug:) and then get covered by the next landslide and continue to colonize the wood.

    The following landslide might expose the wood to the surface (or get close enough) for other environmental factors to then induce fruiting...

    Maybe the soil isself isn’t so important but the mushrooms are able to construct a niche in the non nutritious, chaotic environment that other organisms can’t exploit?

    If my cube style grow doesn’t work I’ll try sawdust in the spawn (more time to break down than if used in sub) and try 2 tubs, one with my normal casing and another with some clay like soil.

    Going to slant my clean T2 just to be safe, although I’d prefer to slant a fruit clone :wink:


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    Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
        #25656559 -

    If I were to try this species I'd use the same technique I used for Psilocybe papuana and P. aucklandiae but probably with some aged sawdust.
    https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24693122
    https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22459920


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    Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: inski]
        #25661803 -

    @fisherman: either way, you don't know what kind of signalling goes on in their metabolism to trigger fruiting or other parts of their life cycle.
    Some of the cues may actually be kind of meaningless but happen to coincide with the ideal time to start another phase of their development.

    It makes sense to try and simulate different parts of their natural habitat like the soil type and soil life, and see what works.

    Yes, a landslide may just be convenient but what makes the niche work and what makes it tick? There has to be something atuned to it if relatively easy decomposable substrates on their own don't cut it even if they should have everything they need. Might be they are still unnecessarily waiting on some cue/signal that belongs to their natural habitat cause that is how their biological clock works?


    Other than that I defer to much more experienced mycologists, esp experienced with exotic species. So far I have not fruited any of my exotics yet but hey this was just the first season.


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    Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: Solipsis]
        #25692959 -

    How's the zapotecorum coming? Is there any news? I've got mine in a WBS Glas... It's taking its time..

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    Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: shroompy]
        #25700150 -

    I heard it was slow so I did an LC and inoculated my grain with a HIGH volume.

    Tub is chilling now- I did 4.5 qt grain to 3 qt sub and its been a little over a week.

    I've been gone so not sure how it is recovering, but I will update after the new year or after I case or something cool happens. I'm worried about temps as I am only in 60-64 F range now, but we will see.

    https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25642180 if you want to follow along!


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    Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: FishLevelMidnight]
        #25700806 -

    Great! If i have the attention and time for it, will try to do a comparison with zap on different substrates. I've had some contams on agar following me around, but now seems to have a nice clean culture.

    I don't know why but I have a feeling zaps would be good on a mix of wood and grains.


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    Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: Solipsis]
        #25701757 -

    https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12075558


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    Pat The Bunny said:
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    bodhisatta said:
    i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

    These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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    Re: P. zapotecorum grow, what substrate to use/test? [Re: 36fuckin5]
        #25701949 -

    Nice.

    Def going to use sawdust in the grainspawn next time and if this doesn’t pan out.

    Things are cold here so will likely have to revisit in the late spring/summer, got ahead of myself


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