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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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History and Humanities?
#21763602 - 06/04/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have started to develop an amateur interest in history and literature...I want to have a better knowledge of history, including modern events, and I also want to become more well-read...what types of books would you recommend I read? Typical Western canon? I know it's a pretty broad question but any recommendations would be nice.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Find a country or period that interests you and expand upon that. Even “Modern” History is an incredibly broad topic. I think “Modern” refers to anything after 1500.
When I was a little kid and first got into history it was Nazi Germany and Rome.
As far as what me and you would consider modern history, the two biggest events in the last 100 years are the emergence of the USA and USSR, and then the Fall of the USSR the “hyper power” climate we live in today.
Historical Literature that is relevant: Dr. Zhivago (great book)
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: History and Humanities? [Re: elax420]
#21797707 - 06/12/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would recommend J.A. Michener; I mean there are hundreds of thousands of sources. . . so many - so, just use your best guess as to what'd be interesting and good. . .
Anyway Michener seems great to me because he tells a story, he's a good story-teller, it's like novels, and they'so detailed, it feels like you're really there as good as any novel, just about. . . I mean he's not like, as good as Dostoevsky or Kundera perhaps, as a Novelist, but pretty excellent in his own right. . And the best thing is the stories are historically very accurate, he occasionally makes slight changes, but always notes them.
I honestly was very surprised at how much one could learn from reading one of his books. . . and it was entertaining the whole way through, as much as (almost) any of my favorite novels.
Otherwise there's quite a few various eras or sagas in earth's history that are really fascinating. Vikings, Rome, Ice Age, First People, Europe and Asia, etc. . just to say 'Asia' is to say so much. . . like, I can't imagine learning about Mongols and Russians and ancient China wouldn't be very fascinating to me. . . if it's written well and interestingly.
'Life and Death in Shanghai' was fascinating. . slightly tough to read but only slightly, a little bit though; story of a woman who was of the intellectual class, going through the Red Revolution in China, before and during Mao Tze Tung I believe. Basically the Red guards ransack her house and keep sort of doing so for a while, and then she gets imprisoned. . . it's actually very moving and tragic; I would be more moved by it except I dont' believe in artificially going into those states based on things that happened in the past - or, fairly equally, things that are happening in the present.
It may sometimes appear cold-hearted if one is totally, 100% non-attached, yet hopefully it won't, because genuine warmth is there; it's just non-reactivity seems to be such a positive thing, it actually is something that can be praised in its own right;
we live in a society that is so backwards that persuasion is praised in its own right ( oh, he's so charming! ) and yet non-reactivity is not considered of its nearly sovereign value that it has.
oh well.

but yeah, non-attachment is actually the key secret to it all, because once you are not -attached, your mind doesn't change based on circumstances, and being to able to spend time in a deeper and deeper concentrated state,
that is basically what is Samadhi; it is a formless and boundlessness because it is of the formless and boundless tao - or, buddha-nature - there is no other real way of expressing this
perhaps, because we are interconnected, for that reason, we continue to flow - on and on, into other forms, We flow into the universe, and the universe flows into us, and we have each the same age, the same present, form, and the rest.
Because we flow, we are eternal, because we are eternal, we are not truly associated with the earthly pains and joys - they only appear to happen to us, that sounds strange - but what is being hinted at is that experience only happens to our body, and our soul, itself is not truly experiencing, it is only imagining that it does.
or in other words, the soul is imagining it is coming or going, there is here or there, there is light or darkness, illusion or reality,
when in reality, all of these things are one; and thus, being one, all illusion of separateness is just that, illusion; and illusion vanishes in the light of day, and once vanishing, stays vanished forever.
oops sorry, was stoned.
slightly. gradually. ever so gradually.

-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika



Registered: 12/03/02
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Loc: beautiful BC
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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There is an online series called "crash course history" - and although it's juvenile, i've found the crash course biology and chemistry courses to be a fantastic introduction to the topics I am studying. Perhaps you can use it as a starting point to see what interests you.
Heres a Link.
-------------------- GO OUTSIDE.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: History and Humanities? [Re: PDU] 1
#21807761 - 06/14/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Book everyone should read: The Republic Plato
Book I really enjoyed and recommend: The Roman Empire Isaac Asimov
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Re: History and Humanities? [Re: elax420]
#21811705 - 06/15/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Duly noted.
I've been swallowing up Wikipedia articles on history lately, and I've learned quite a bit. But I know that Wikipedia does not go very in depth at all and in general is not a fantastic source.
I understand that books are the best way to go, but I just don't know WHICH books to read.
If you could recommend any more, I would be very grateful.
Some history concepts that I've been interested in lately include:
French Revolution and Napeolonic Wars 19th century German unification Holy Roman Empire Classical Greece
By the way, why are Homer's works usually associated with Classical Greece when they were written in the Archaic period preceding the Classical Era? Is it because they weren't popularized until that time?
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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did you read Les Miserables? That is set in the Fr. Rev, around then; there's a lot of # of pages abridged, like, hundreds maybe, at least probably dozens. . .
anyway a 500-6 or 700 page version wouldn't be too long. . and it's a fascinating story.
Also there's a really good book on. . . actually I can't recommend any books on Napoleon, but I bet a good one would be fantastic.
I wanna read about more him too. Project Gutenberg -
Gutenberg.org -
can be a really, really wonderful way to find great books. And if you have a Kindle or Tablet or something - I am one of the few who don't, but this alone . . . man to put any of those old books on it
anyway you can learn biographies, poetry, etc, from tons of good writers -
anything 50 years old or older is generally qualified, in the public domain, to be up there for free. . .
Great great resource. .
On the others - 'Discourses on Livy,' also titled 'Titus Livius,' by Machiavelli - I know, Machiavelli, but it't not like public perception at all, at least not this book. .
It's all about governing a republic, pretty much.. . this was one of the few that I bought in paper form from having read it online, from Gutenberg. .
It's just really great.. takes a bit of concentration and focus and so forth to read it; like any good one, anyway it's quite up there and quite worth it.
i don't have any other suggestions, i am sure there are plenty good ones.
i really feel it's best to wait 'til a book grips you, because then you will learn it best, and you'll never feel like you're wasting your time to do so.
Best 
oh and Livy was an historian, from those days, Machiavelli was a few centuries ago; I would be interested in one day reading Livy directly. . have no clue what it'd be like. I'm not sure if Sallust wrote history but I think so. . . I don't have anything for Ancient Greece on you, but definitely Socrates and Plato are a certain part of it. . Then Aristotle and Alexander. .
Sometimes new books can be great on these topics, or else older ones. . . possibly look for the most widely acclaimed books, or something like that.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Quote:
Celestial Traveler said:
French Revolution and Napeolonic Wars 19th century German unification Holy Roman Empire Classical Greece
By the way, why are Homer's works usually associated with Classical Greece when they were written in the Archaic period preceding the Classical Era? Is it because they weren't popularized until that time?
I have a really good Napoleon book at my parents house can’t remember its name though. He was actually Italian and changed his name to look more french. It used to be Napoleone di Buonaparte This guy is pretty important and from the same period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_von_Clausewitz
My favorite from the Napoleonic wars was always Marshall Ney though.
 Dude was a badass. They tried to blindfold him for his execution after the defeat at Waterloo, and he took off the blindfold and said
Quote:
"Soldiers, when I give the command to fire, fire straight at my heart. Wait for the order. It will be my last to you. I protest against my condemnation. I have fought a hundred battles for France, and not one against her ... Soldiers, fire!"
I dont know anything about Bismarck. I’ve heard that it was more about Napoleon 3 fucking up more so than Prussia kicking ass though. Prussia had a smaller modern military and i wanna say France didn’t even have Artillery and they fucked up like they did in WW1. Their Uniforms were woolen and highly visible.
The interest in the Reichs: Honestly Mein Kampf probably wouldn’t be a bad read. Im not into Nazi shit at all but he was a smart guy  1st Reich Charlemagne (beginning of HRE) 2nd Reich Bismarck (unification) 3rd Reich u already know.
Classical Greece: Honestly I was always a Rome guy. I know about Alexander and thats basically it. The Byzantines were pretty cool
Quote:
once in a lifetime said: On the others - 'Discourses on Livy,' also titled 'Titus Livius,' by Machiavelli - I know, Machiavelli, but it't not like public perception at all, at least not this book. .
I dont know what Public Perception is, but the Public is fucking stupid. Machiavelli is a must read. The part of the public who actually know who that is, don’t like him because he’s right. He speaks about humans base desires/weakness and how to exploit those. Read “The Prince” (This sets up France for you as well)
The best Philosophical text i ever read was John Locke: Second Treatise on Government
Oh and June 18 is the 200 year anniversary of Waterloo!!!
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: History and Humanities? [Re: elax420]
#21816536 - 06/16/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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sallust - conspiracy of cataline
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/7990
machiavelli - titus livius
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10827
history of julias ceasar - jacob abbott
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11688/11688-h/11688-h.htm
not an overly long tale; seems a bit short but if you compare it to reading the romans of the day, probably a lot easier to read in general. 
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1171/1171-h/1171-h.htm
the apology - xenophon
but i honestly have generally preferred to read such as Goethe, Shelley, Emerson, glancing at Franklin or others, myself anyway. . and many various others. Anyway there's plenty to read. That's always true.
Though while I enjoyed literature and so forth best; these were really nice in their own way, and Xenophon and Plato are both interesting. .only read a bit of them really, though. I preferred several others, were easier to get at similarly- lofty concepts.
Frankly, in general most Eastern teachers do a better job of explaining some concepts, especially because they have non-duality as a central, thorough topic. . . as well as Zen or Buddhist anyway has a 4- option logic system instead of Western's 2- option. . . i'll post on that eventually.
But like a Japanese Zen master of old would usually be more expedient for me, to learn about some higher things; or always has seemed to be, and never really seemed less so.
then there's william blake of course; he gave us that lovely 'doors of perception' quote; and he also wrote something interesting called 'Mental Traveler,' I haven't gotten a-hold of that but eventually I want to.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Thanks for all these recommendations guys. My plate is already overflowing, but I welcome even more.
Can anyone recommend a book(s) about Carthage?
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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Does anyone know if there's any truth to the founding myth of Carthage? (That it was founded by Dido, a princess of Tyre, who fled Tyre because her brother killed her husband)
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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I don't know, but I plan to look that up because it seems interesting. Not right now because I'm going to partake of the holy sacrament now.


Yeah, a few years back I suddenly realized what a resource Gutenberg was - I mean, we always know it is, free books, right? But then suddenly one day it hits you 
and I realized I could shore up a few people I'd not read enough of. . . and downloaded 50 or so, give or take, and. . .
man, was it ever the best thing I'd ever do. Just about, truthfully.
i won't mention all the ones i got but they did lean more toward literature poetry and a bit of philosophy, but probably more mysticism, than history - but these and a couple others were wonderful history ones that i got. . .
also - and in truth, this might be just a psychological self-trick ! - but knowing that being interested in something helps you learn. . .
then you can go to the source of it - and look for reasons to be interested in something 
going to the source of things itself is a wonderful principle.
Okay, i've said WAY too much.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Quote:
once in a lifetime said: Not right now because I'm going to partake of the holy sacrament now.
Jah Bless
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Celestial Traveler
Random Observer



Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
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The thing about free shit is you typically get what you pay for with that. But I've already check it out and downloaded Les Miserables. It definitely looks like a great resource. It'll make a great supplement to my local library which is somewhat lacking.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Hehe,
I would disagree because you can find pretty much everything you want for free, if you learn how to search well. Anyway the site is free because everything over 50 years old is free -
So. . .
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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I could name 200-300 of the most brilliant and prolific geniuses, poets, writers, philosophers, thinkers and so forth of humanity's history,
but even that wouldn't be necessary, 10-15 would do;
if you know how to choose them well, to find them, that's all one would ever need. . .
because there's the rub - after you've studied 10 of the top 1 or 2 percentile of intelligence, compassion, wisdom, etc., and so forth, what need would you have to study 300?
there's a certain point - and it's really always this way - that reading others' writings isn't the best way to move forward. . .
to think things through for oneself. . to seek toward an understanding based totally on self-reliance,
this is the main thing. . . and it's gotten at pretty early - it's probably after a few aphorisms, but it's just after;
Emerson, Schopenhaer, McKenna and Whitman all express it fairly strongly as one of the most important things.
I won't attempt to copy their words here. 
Anyway those 4 express it very nicely.
Anything pre-1965 is public domain, except a few cases, and therefore free, and potentially available online at Gutenberg.
The ONLY downside is that it's electronic; while a good reader / tablet would solve that - I don't think it's best; because of the environmental drain of those items generally connected;
better solution would be reading in short chunks. . . like 2 paragraphs or a page or two etc., now and then. . .
switch from one to another; fairly frequently. . you get such a wide view and variety, and such powerful aphorisms in such a hit-solid format.
it's quite wonderful. so with [not anything close to all], quite a significant chunk of humanity's learning, history, and creative writing available and free, I don't think you can hardly call it that
 you could name so many writers or thinkers, and most all of them would be there. . .only a few aren't, and often there's at least 1 or 2 tomes about them. I could share but i've come to realize - it's not my place to share what's best.
that's up to you to decide.
but with (almost) all the great writers, thinkers, and so forth on there ( or even if it's only 20-25 %, who knows how much written material has been lost )
it's one of the best resources.
I hope that i haven't come off as trying to sell it too strong or anything, and I don't have any stake - peace and love are my primary goals in life and I always to return to them. . .
nothing's better than being happy and at peace wherever you are! !
or in goethe's words - king or pauper, happiest is [s]he who has peace in his home.
just presenting a little different, and opposing view to the idea that knowledge that one have to pay for ought to be sought out.
cheers and wonderful journeys 
i do have hundreds of favorites. . more story+philosophy than anything is my fav; but art+story+high thinking is wonderful, and it led me to the mystic teachers of buddhism, zen and hindusim and taoism above mostly the rest. .
but mostly stories. . . good ones, powerful ones. . . and one thing it helped learn me was the principle of selectivity is among the most important. i could write dozens of pages about it but probably there'll usually be better topics. . . but still, there are a lot of favorites - but they're there. . . the mostly only important thing is learning how to search for true gold. . .
I guess, i simply wanted to say a bit more 
peace & joy to you. wonderful journeys.
but yea - those 4 express it more than most: think for yourself, pour new creativity, new ideas, and so forth into the world,
creative thinking is the most necessary skill to problem solving,
while knowledge is still useful to some degree; applying it in the best - and or / new ways is the main thing. . .
putting it into action - and even more so, adding to it, creating a new wisdom and so forth, based on all the previous elements. . .
that's where it's at. 
'No one is smarter than you, and if they are, what of it? What good is their understanding doing you?' - T. McKenna
and by the by, the website I'm talking about is Project Gutenberg, or http://gutenberg.org
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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kingkc
enthusiast


Registered: 04/24/00
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Try any history of the world .
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Lootje
Stranger

Registered: 10/18/18
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Quote:
Celestial Traveler said: Duly noted.
I've been swallowing up Wikipedia articles on history lately, and I've learned quite a bit. But I know that Wikipedia does not go very in depth at all and in general is not a fantastic source.
I understand that books are the best way to go, but I just don't know WHICH books to read.
If you could recommend any more, I would be very grateful.
Some history concepts that I've been interested in lately include:
French Revolution and Napeolonic Wars 19th century German unification Holy Roman Empire Classical Greece
By the way, why are Homer's works usually associated with Classical Greece when they were written in the Archaic period preceding the Classical Era? Is it because they weren't popularized until that time?
You can thank Hollywood for that. People don't recognise Myceneans or Minoans for the most part but they do know what a Spartan hoplite looks like. So it's a lot easier to use that to represent it.
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