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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: JHOVA]
    #25548357 - 10/18/18 07:26 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

the flame disturbs the air.




What do you mean by this?  Is this about having a lit alcohol lamp inside the SAB?


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25548386 - 10/18/18 07:39 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

An open flame disrupts air. That's the opposite of what we want in a SAB. So even if you never had anything volatile in there, which we constantly do, it'd be suboptimal. Just do everything as I said.

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25548395 - 10/18/18 07:43 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

OK...

But, doesn't taking your arm in and out to flame sterilize your scalpel disturb the air also, as well as introduce contaminants onto the scalpel handle and gloved hands?


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

Edited by VroomerMcZoomers (10/18/18 07:43 PM)

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InvisibleJHOVA
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25548399 - 10/18/18 07:44 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Only the blade is sterilzed either way


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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: JHOVA]
    #25548406 - 10/18/18 07:46 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, but, the exposing the handle, and your hand, to the outside air has got to be less sterile than keeping it in the box?  No?


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: VroomerMcZoomers] * 1
    #25548420 - 10/18/18 07:51 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

VroomerMcZoomers said:
OK...

But, doesn't taking your arm in and out to flame sterilize your scalpel disturb the air also, as well as introduce contaminants onto the scalpel handle and gloved hands?




With a properly built SAB and solid technique, you shouldn't be disturbing the air very much when you move in and out. The scalpel gets flame sterilized and is fine to use, evidenced by everyone successfully using this method for decades. The glove isn't out of the SAB for very long and shouldn't be hovering over anything it can contaminate anyway.

You are unnecessarily worrying about making everything sterile to the point of actual danger. You don't need everything sterile. It's not a sterile air box. You want shit as sanitary as you can to help out, but your slow, controlled movements are what get the job done. The only thing you need sterile is what is coming in direct contact with substrate. Flame sterilizing your scalpel does that. And doing it in your SAB is retarded.

No offense, but I'm unwilling to spend time convincing you of widely accepted safety measures and technique. Or talking you out of doing stupid shit like dousing plates with Lysol and putting a flame in your SAB. I already spent a chunk of time typing out a solid workflow for sterile work. Either use it or don't, I guess.

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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25548444 - 10/18/18 07:58 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

What a pleasant fellow...


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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OfflineBignate316
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25548634 - 10/18/18 09:01 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Iso doesn't kill everything always, specifically mold spores (which will land and germinate on agar plates). And even if it did, new spores will be landing on the shit constantly so the initial spray ain't helping much when you keep pushing them in and out. However light the disturbance is, it's not as light as nothing, which is optimal. There's a reason people who cover their holes only do it when not in use, not during a session. Just my $.02.




I understand that and I respect your opinion. All I'm saying is there's exponentially more landing on your gloves when you move your hands out and then back into a SAB.
  I understand that the point is to reduce as many chances for contamination as possible, however, I don't feel as though a little bit of foam over the holes is going to introduce enough contamination to cause a problem.

Further more I'm not going to go willy nilly and knock up 10 grain jars and do a bunch of transfers etc. on my first several times using it. For now it's mostly going to be used for Agar work. And if I have a problem getting clean cultures than I'll get rid of them and report back.
But if it works then fuck it, it works.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: Bignate316]
    #25548788 - 10/18/18 10:21 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I understand that and I respect your opinion. All I'm saying is there's exponentially more landing on your gloves when you move your hands out and then back into a SAB.




How is that relevant to anything? Because a necessary movement may interact with contaminants, it's fine to make it worse? If anything it works towards my point. You're passing a dirty glove back through your foam each time, letting it collect more and more contaminants from the glove. As opposed to an open hole where gloves interact with nothing. And your foam is going to bump into your arm each time and scrape your arms, too.

Also, how are you going to do agar transfers with a foam door in your way? You're going to flame sterilize a scalpel and bump into your dirty foam on the way in?


Quote:

I understand that the point is to reduce as many chances for contamination as possible, however, I don't feel as though a little bit of foam over the holes is going to introduce enough contamination to cause a problem.




It 100% introduces more risk than not having them, which is the metric you should care about. But do your thing. I'd love to hear of the benefit of the foam doors. I don't think I've heard one yet.

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OfflineBignate316
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25548807 - 10/18/18 10:36 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Quote:

I understand that and I respect your opinion. All I'm saying is there's exponentially more landing on your gloves when you move your hands out and then back into a SAB.




How is that relevant to anything? Because a necessary movement may interact with contaminants, it's fine to make it worse? If anything it works towards my point. You're passing a dirty glove back through your foam each time, letting it collect more and more contaminants from the glove. As opposed to an open hole where gloves interact with nothing. And your foam is going to bump into your arm each time and scrape your arms, too.

Also, how are you going to do agar transfers with a foam door in your way? You're going to flame sterilize a scalpel and bump into your dirty foam on the way in?


Quote:

I understand that the point is to reduce as many chances for contamination as possible, however, I don't feel as though a little bit of foam over the holes is going to introduce enough contamination to cause a problem.




It 100% introduces more risk than not having them, which is the metric you should care about. But do your thing. I'd love to hear of the benefit of the foam doors. I don't think I've heard one yet.




I suppose a red hot scalpel would melt the foam and kill any contaminants on the way in. Lmao.

As far as the foam it only pushes about 2 maybe 3 inches into the SAB so its sitting high up on my forearm while I'm doing my thing, far from my hands, gloves, plates, etc. With the exception of loading the SAB and flame sterilization.

The benefit of the foam is no tape, saran wrap, or a "clean" towel as you stated in your first comment. Fuck did you pressure cook the towel before you stuffed it in the hole and kicked all them nasties up in there? Even if you did I'm willing to bet it would pick up more shit on the way to the SAB than the foam had in the first place.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: Bignate316]
    #25548837 - 10/18/18 10:50 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

The red hot scalpel is going to hit the foam and not be sterile any longer. The length of the foam is irrelevant. The point is a non-sterile, unsanitary piece of fame is scraping down from your glove to your elbows. And you flame sterilize once per plate, so that's kind of a big exception.


Quote:

The benefit of the foam is no tape, saran wrap, or a "clean" towel as you stated in your first comment. Fuck did you pressure cook the towel before you stuffed it in the hole and kicked all them nasties up in there? Even if you did I'm willing to bet it would pick up more shit on the way to the SAB than the foam had in the first place.




You don't need tape or Saran wrap, dude. That's the point. Who the fuck places tape or Saran wrap over their holes while they're working? A towel has nothing to do with being sanitary or sterile, it's so my shit doesn't slip around. And as I tried explaining to Mr. Still-Air-Bomb, being sterile is not an objective.

Even if I kicked up a million contaminants, my move after is spraying down the box with soapy water, and letting the air settle before I work. Who gives a fuck which object picks up more shit on it? The difference is I don't wipe the dirty towel from my gloves to forearm every time I use my SAB or use it to cool my blade. It sits on the floor, holding particles that fall on it, far the fuck away from my hands or sterile utensils.

For any other new people who see this: do not build an SAB like OP or bring your flame inside.

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OfflineBignate316
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25548848 - 10/18/18 11:04 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
The red hot scalpel is going to hit the foam and not be sterile any longer. The length of the foam is irrelevant. The point is a non-sterile, unsanitary piece of fame is scraping down from your glove to your elbows. And you flame sterilize once per plate, so that's kind of a big exception.


Quote:

The benefit of the foam is no tape, saran wrap, or a "clean" towel as you stated in your first comment. Fuck did you pressure cook the towel before you stuffed it in the hole and kicked all them nasties up in there? Even if you did I'm willing to bet it would pick up more shit on the way to the SAB than the foam had in the first place.




You don't need tape or Saran wrap, dude. That's the point. Who the fuck places tape or Saran wrap over their holes while they're working? A towel has nothing to do with being sanitary or sterile, it's so my shit doesn't slip around. And as I tried explaining to Mr. Still-Air-Bomb, being sterile is not an objective.

Even if I kicked up a million contaminants, my move after is spraying down the box with soapy water, and letting the air settle before I work. Who gives a fuck which object picks up more shit on it? The difference is I don't wipe the dirty towel from my gloves to forearm every time I use my SAB or use it to cool my blade. It sits on the floor, holding particles that fall on it, far the fuck away from my hands or sterile utensils.

For any other new people who see this: do not build an SAB like OP or bring your flame inside.




I nor anyone else said to place tape or saran wrap over the holes while working. And YOU said to place a potentially contaminated towel over the holes if you needed to step away from your work.

And discrediting someone who's trying something different because that's what they had to work with for the time being isn't going to get you anywhere dude. I suggest you back up and let me fail on my own because that's how people learn. Not by hate bashing because they tried something different.

Like I said fuck it if it fails. I lost a couple drops of spore solution. I'm gonna cry to my mommy. Lmao. Get over yourself dude. I'm a grown ass man that lives for doing things differently. Sometimes they work great and sometimes they fail miserably. But I don't let that keep me from trying to be a little innovative and think for myself.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: Bignate316]
    #25548875 - 10/18/18 11:25 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

You don't actually understand how an SAB works and it's pointless to continue as you are unwilling to learn. There's no honor in ignoring facts just to "fail on your own" and people quickly become unwilling to help those who ignore advice. Fortunately, most come here to learn to do shit the right way. I incorrectly assumed you were one of those people. Cheers.

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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: stareatclouds]
    #25548885 - 10/18/18 11:34 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
You don't actually understand how an SAB works and it's pointless to continue as you are unwilling to learn. There's no honor in ignoring facts just to "fail on your own" and people quickly become unwilling to help those who ignore advice. Fortunately, most come here to learn to do shit the right way. I incorrectly assumed you were one of those people. Cheers.






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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: Bignate316]
    #25548892 - 10/18/18 11:40 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

:knowwhatnevermind:


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OfflineBignate316
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #25548907 - 10/18/18 11:52 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineBignate316
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: Bignate316]
    #25551006 - 10/19/18 06:12 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

As promised because I'm not an arrogant coward afraid of failure, the foam did fail. But only because it peeled away from the RTV on first use. Lmao

So stareatclouds you were right I guess. But that wont stop me from experimenting, I'll just wait to post something until I have results whether good or bad. I don't mind making mistakes for the community if it means somebody else wont make the same ones. :wink:


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OfflineVroomerMcZoomers
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: Bignate316]
    #25551098 - 10/19/18 07:06 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe you could try taping it on with tuck tape?

That shit kicks ass!



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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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OfflineBignate316
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Re: Yet Another SAB(Still Air Box) Tek [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25551158 - 10/19/18 08:01 PM (5 years, 4 months ago)

Lmao nah I'm over the foam.


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