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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: kabel]
    #25526043 -

Thanks for that Kabel. The first time I took mushrooms was in a therapeutic context with some ritual elements. I remember I found all the ritualistic stuff hilarious while I was tripping and consequently was skeptical about it after I came down. I view it differently now. I see certain practices (which I guess you would have to call ceremonial) such as chanting and drumming as a technology- something you create- designed to hold open a shared space. I don't see it in terms of tradition or reassurance or anything like that. I find this aspect of ceremony interesting and worth exploring- that's why I want to hear other people's experiences, especially around drumming and chanting. As for what the mushrooms told you- I don't think any of us know what we are doing, and that's what frees us to endlessly experiment-  with ceremony for example.

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: Fugee] * 1
    #25526089 -

Re: Fugee.  People take 'shrooms for different reasons. IMO, taking shrooms for recreational purposes is a 'sin'. Those who do so should just take up hang gliding or bungee jumping -but that is just me. I started doing the SACRAMENT just like all the other assholes I grew up with so I understand that aspect of tripping. I have come to the conclusion that not everyone has the capacity to appreciate what the mushroom (or other entheogens) have to offer.

I only trip 2 or maybe three times a year, but those experiences are profound. (The last time I tripped was 3 years ago, commitment to my 'earthly duties' has not permitted me to do so, and I am fine with that). My experiences are so deep that I could not even conceive of sitting upright and banging a drum. The chanting becomes internal. It is hard to bang a drum when you are flat on your back unable to move.

Tripping is not about what the mushroom does to you, it is about YOU peeling off the layers of bullshit using the mushroom as a tool to do it. Some drum circles and the like can be total nonsense - they never worked for me, just as group meditation never worked for me. If you are serious about self discovery, then the mushroom can be a great tool -even god-like in it's ability to transform a human into something much bigger than it once was.

As for people who don't get the message that is clear to many (but certainly not all), I guess you can't pour rocket fuel into a lawn mower engine. I have seen that happen to lots of my so-called friends of years past, and not one of them is much better off than they were 20+ years ago; some are worse, some dead, some just dead inside.

My advice would be (and I never give advice unless asked directly), that if you are serious about finding 'THE TRUTH', then stop asking questions from outsiders and start looking inside -this does not even put entheogens into the equation. But if you are going to use entheogens as a tool for self discovery, and your presently not getting results that ring your bell, then find a new method - or maybe leave this stuff alone and join the rest of the sheep. It's safe there.

I'm sorry if I am coming off like a hard-ass, but the truth is that I don't give a shit about 'feelings'. Life is a hard place and some of us want to make sense of this whole deal. I can't tell you how to do it or even if you should do it, all I can do is offer my 2 pennies worth of experience and tell you what has worked for ME.

Believe me when I say it my friend -I wish you the best of all things. Peace.

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25526252 -

Well kind of hard-ass, but more than that you come off as thoroughly pissed off, and I really don't know why. I didn't ask your advice- I was asking for people who had experience of integrating ceremony into their use of mushrooms to share their experiences. As best I can understand it, you want to tell me that the way you take mushrooms makes things like drumming and chanting unnecessary / impossible. Okay, thanks for that.

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: Fugee]
    #25528029 -

Be careful you may end up sacrificing midgets in an attempt to make the rain gods laugh.


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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: seldom seen]
    #25528261 -

Fuck midgets


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http://www.mushroomvideos.com/

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25528338 -

scarabaeus said:
So centuries of psychonauts were wrong? Everybody is just supposed to eat it 'n wing it? Please explain.


It's a Terence Mckenna quote, 6 hours 24 minutes into the linked lecture. In my experience mushrooms love it when you wing it! People who have to have their intention all perfect generally don't trip as often. I have friends with like that, and I'll say to them, "While you're trying to align everything just perfect with Gaia or whatever you think it is happening, I've sat, or danced with her at least 10 times."


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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25528352 -

scarabaeus said:
IMO, taking shrooms for recreational purposes is a 'sin'.


That sounds judgmental. In my experience shrooms are never just recreational.

Quote:
I only trip 2 or maybe three times a year, but those experiences are profound. (The last time I tripped was 3 years ago


I probably trip every 2-3 weeks on average. Those experiences are profound. The last time I tripped was a week and a half ago.

Quote:
Tripping is not about what the mushroom does to you, it is about YOU peeling off the layers of bullshit using the mushroom as a tool to do it. Some drum circles and the like can be total nonsense - they never worked for me, just as group meditation never worked for me.


I think both drum circles and meditation are dope. I never did a drum circle as part of a formal ritual, but on shrooms once with a few hippie friends in a tipi it was a fantastic experience. However, so is a rave, so is nature, so is silent darkness... I think meditation is different, meditation is more of a discipline than an awakening, so I don't think you should expect it to work as much as you make it work. More like going to the gym for your brain.

Quote:
My advice would be (and I never give advice unless asked directly), that if you are serious about finding 'THE TRUTH', then stop asking questions from outsiders and start looking inside -this does not even put entheogens into the equation. But if you are going to use entheogens as a tool for self discovery, and your presently not getting results that ring your bell, then find a new method - or maybe leave this stuff alone and join the rest of the sheep. It's safe there.


Another of my favorite McKenna quotes, "If it doesn't work, use more!"

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25528620 -

The thread has gone off topic- it is being used a pretext for people to display how experienced are- that's something we should all be on the look out for, nothing to do with mushrooms, just a question of knowing yourself.

Thanks to everyone who engaged with my original question- great book suggestion and some nice stories- thanks a lot!

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: Fugee]
    #25533483 -

Re Fugee. Sorry it took me so long to get back. No I'm not pissed off -rather I was trying to convey to you the seriousness of which I take such matters. I thought I was making a point about how important ritual and ceremony IS. My lengthy post ^ IS kind of a synopsis of my attitude towards the whole using mushrooms and ceremony which was your original question. Perhaps I could have made my point/expressed my opinion in a more ez going palatable way. If there were any bad vibes I apologize. Peace.

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: Fugee]
    #25540822 -

Re: kabel. GEESH! People on this thread are so touchy lol. When I asked you to explain I wasn't judging you or questioning your post, rather I was seriously asking you to explain it -because I didn't understand where you were coming from. In all the 'spiritual' circles I have always navigated through, I was always told to ask questions if you don't understand something -which is what I did. Don't sweat it my friend, it's all good.

I agree with much of what you posted above ^. You and I probably have much in common. The OP wanted peoples opinions and experiences, which is what I thought I was giving. I had to go back and read this thread from the beginning to see where things went off the rails -and I'm still not sure!

If you do well in drum circles, group meditation and the like -fantastic! It never worked for me -and that is OK. I'm not you, and you are not me. Different strokes for different folks. I am always interested in the effective ways people find to maneuver their way along 'the path'.


Thanks for the T McKenna link BTW. Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread but I have been busy and put it on a back burner so to speak. Feel free to reply if you like; I won't be able to post for a few days. In any event, I wish you, the OP, and everyone who reads this the best of everything . Peace & best wishes.

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25542511 -

I'm glad this post came up, this has become a big thing for me recently. I'll try and get into it without too much of an essay.

Like many people here who grow, I was tripping very very regularly (to the point of almost daily for a couple of months)...leading to some very strange feelings of nihilism and detachment, coupled with my own existential issues, I wouldn't say it was a particularly mindful or healing practice (as it should be).

Just eating them randomly, no ceremony, not even cleaning the house, even when I truthfully didn't want/need to, smoking loads of cannabis during trips and just watching tv, playing games etc.

So right in the middle of this, an old aquaintance who I hadn't seen for a couple of years pops up out of the blue and says  she'll be in town and needed a place to stay, when she arrived she started talking about how she'd began shamanic training, and that her spirit guides had told her I should work with plant medecines...
Now at the time I was a pure sceptic about that stuff, but she didn't know I was growing so I showed her my shrooms and vocalised the idea that 'Yes, since you mention it I've kind of always felt that.'

From the moment of setting that intention I continued my abusive practices with the shrooms and had some truly awful experiences, really repellent 'fight or flight' feelings - narrowly missing getting hit by cars twice in 5 minutes during one particular trip and similarly jarring expetiences. Obviously it's all me, everything is all me - but something big had changed, like I'd been called to 'do it fucking properly'

So, being extremely lucky to have this friend who is on the medecine wheel I was able to make some connections (ceremonial plant medecine is very hard to find here in the UK, partly because of legal issues and partly because our own heritage is long lost) to explore the overtly spiritual side of tripping.

Since then i have experienced different ceremonies, including ayahuasca and san pedro, and can honestly say that the ceremonial context is genuinely as important as the medecine itself.

The fasting and dietry work beforehand, I found to be very powerful, giving me a real sense that I'd earned the experience.

The setting, with the extreme reverence for the fire, the positioning of participants, the clothing and decor.
The idea of altars is something I found very useful, having a shared altar for people to place token items on is a good way to focus intention.

Having the space opened and defined properly felt very comforting and powerful, with all participants cleansed (smudged), the fire properly set and all the 7 directions called in.

Vocalizing intention was something I was sceptical about, I really dislike speaking in public (to the point of it being a
real issue of anxiety for me) - but the way I experienced it in ceremony was simple and powerful: Shake a rattle, state your name, followed by three words.

The music, icaros, drumming and communal voice work was exceptionally powerful - these ceremonies all started off in complete silence (indeed, nobody speaks above a whisper at any time) and gradually moved into music.
I was lucky to be with professional and very talented musicians, but either way - any kind of song work is amazing, drumming, shakers - also experienced some unbelievably powerful moments with somebody playing the gong.

-----------

Maybe a long post about nothing there, but in summary I've gone from somebody who has been tripping regularly for years, and taking some healing but mostly fun from the experience...to being somebody who truly believes in the magic of ritual and ceremony and its use as a vehicle for us to experience these tools to their full effect.

It doesn't matter WHAT ritual or ceremony btw, I DO believe in magic now - whilst being completely aware that WE are the magic and it all comes from that point in the darkness behind our eyes.

That Julian Vayne "Getting Higher" book reccomended further up is an excellent start btw.


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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: Piaseski]
    #25542660 -

Very nice piaseski


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http://www.mushroomvideos.com/

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25542940 -

scarabaeus said:
Re: kabel. GEESH! People on this thread are so touchy lol. When I asked you to explain I wasn't I had to go back and read this thread from the beginning to see where things went off the rails -and I'm still not sure!


It was when you said people who do it differently than you were basically sinners and assholes.

You seem cool now tho, so peace.

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Re: Mushrooms and Ceremony [Re: kabel]
    #25548393 -

Re: kabel. Understood. Text-only communication is always going to lead to misunderstanding, perhaps it's the nature of the beast. Thanks for replying and good fortune in your endeavors!

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