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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 792
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Pastywhyte]
#25549681 - 10/19/18 09:28 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been using Eco earth, whats your source?
-------------------- Documented Grows
We are stardust- billion year old carbon- caught in the devils bargain- Joni Mitchell
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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I buy 12 3-packs of eco earth at a time for ~$50 Ive used so much eco earth its ridiculous. Yea theres crap in there but if it wasn't reliable i wouldn't be buying hundreds of bricks
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R.I.P.Zappa
Myco Melyco


Registered: 03/30/18
Posts: 1,212
Loc: In Between Space and Time
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Pastywhyte]
#25550241 - 10/19/18 12:51 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
R.I.P.Zappa said: Grey mold likes coir. There is gypsum in it to so mabye that helped it.
Forgot this jar for a month on my table, lid on, used it for psudo casing to cover exposed grains.

Are you sure that there is no other media mixed in with your coir brick? I had a bad batch of coir once full of seeds, they were the vector for when it molded. I have kept quality coir hydrated for years and it was fine. I personally dislike eco earth coir because of the random crap I find it it constantly. Hydro shop coir is even worse.
Yeah great point and kinda feel like a ass for overlooking that. That's from a sterilized 5# brick. The main reason I sterilized it is because I found straw, rocks, jungle turds and even some peanuts.  Did a couple shoeboxes with it unsterilized and got plants growing and trichplosions before 1st flush. I switched to eco earth pet bricks immediately after seeing the plants and consistant trich after trying it unsteralized. Things have gone allot more smooth and no sterilizing with the eco earth; just boiling water and verm.
I am interested in what brand you recommend. 
-Edit- did the exact same thing Bod did, 12, 3 packs for 50ish bucks.
-------------------- -The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought-
-"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".-
-When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".-
-If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.-
psychonautwiki.org
How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek.
Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
Edited by R.I.P.Zappa (10/19/18 12:53 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
#25550288 - 10/19/18 01:07 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I prefer “exoterra plantation soil” as it’s often a lot cleaner and has a better shred typically. That’s not to say it’s infallible however, I get a lot less crap mixed in that brand than any other brand I have tried. Eco earth has worked for me and many other people, but it’s not the best IMO.
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Pastywhyte]
#25550730 - 10/19/18 04:08 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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How much does that typically run?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Caps McGee]
#25550752 - 10/19/18 04:22 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Same as eco earth.
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Pastywhyte]
#25550807 - 10/19/18 04:46 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hmmm... I'll have to give it a swing!
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R.I.P.Zappa
Myco Melyco


Registered: 03/30/18
Posts: 1,212
Loc: In Between Space and Time
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Caps McGee]
#25551182 - 10/19/18 08:13 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hmm, just looked it up and it's almost twice the cost of eco earth in the US. 
Eco 5.99 Exo 9.49
I know coconuts don't grow in Canada so whats your secret?
-------------------- -The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought-
-"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".-
-When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".-
-If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.-
psychonautwiki.org
How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek.
Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
Edited by R.I.P.Zappa (10/19/18 08:15 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
#25551234 - 10/19/18 08:39 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I dunno maybe I’m just lucky living in Canada for a change
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Pastywhyte]
#25560302 - 10/23/18 02:09 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well this may not be coir, however, Cubensis certainly decays cellulose (even from spores), at least at pH 7.5. I can also tell you it's getting it's macro-micro nutrients from the media (no spawn, grain or flour).
Germination took about 5 days with my setup, with weak growth to start with.

After good decay of cellulose begins, + illustration.
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mary fairchild
Pantheist


Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 792
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Ferather]
#25561248 - 10/23/18 07:13 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Interesting, So cellulose as opposed to, cellulose & hemicellulose complexed with lignin? Curious- when you say its getting its macro & micro nutrients from the media, is the media cellulose & what else?- Oh, so its colonizing the wood saturated with sucrose.
-------------------- Documented Grows
We are stardust- billion year old carbon- caught in the devils bargain- Joni Mitchell
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24012215#24012215 > I'm using the lignicolous recipe.
Sucrose, is 99.9% carbohydrates (C-H-O), it basically contains no macro-micro nutrients. Wood is ok, but has a serious nitrogen deficiency, around 0.1% nitrogen.
Coir is richer @ ~0.5% nitrogen, same for straw @ 0.5-0.8%.
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I am not trying to replace methods here, only teach what should be already an obvious fact.
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Still waiting for 50/50 grain-coir and 50/50 grain verm (same water content) tests. I was hoping someone has already run said test, but apparently not.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25534423#25534423
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Ferather]
#25565486 - 10/25/18 05:44 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here are today's images, just so you know it's not stalling, just very slow, this is because complex cellulose is slow to release. I won't get into it too much, but the test in my Cubensis log, I added drops of sucrose water to accelerate decay.
I will go as far as to say, starch releases much faster, and grain spawn is the answer. I recently modified my cellulose alternative media to include grain flour.

Even oyster takes 4 months on 100% cellulose.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Ferather]
#25568539 - 10/26/18 08:13 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have now removed the peg, based on the comparison between fed with additional sucrose (via syringe), vs unfed. Sucrose is soluble, and can be cleaved (from what I've read it's also cleaved by amylase).
We all know Cubensis loves a bit of starch, and other soluble carbon sources. Lignicolous mycelium will be using-targeting phenols instead.
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Cubensis peg onto T-Gel (no flour):
If it grows out and well enough it has enzymes that target, or work on, phenol based carbon sources. Based on Mycolorado's T-Gel adaptation, (66% less ME), Cubensis appears to adapt.
I am not sure if adaptation is better when it's live vs spores.
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Mycolorado's alternative T-Gel recipe:
100g > Water | 2g > Agar | 2g > Black Tea | 1g > Malt Extract.
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Note roughly 25-33% of the tea is soluble, not all of it.
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25150722
Edited by Ferather (10/26/18 08:46 AM)
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Ferather]
#25584604 - 11/01/18 02:59 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I assembled the test 2 days ago now, see here, the cubensis has started to recover and there is some growth on the agar. It can take up to 5 days for lignicolous mycelium to adapt from fresh, and around 1-2 days if already adapted.
Growth is slow at this time due to limited resources, but improving, so no images yet. If the cubensis colonizes the plate, it has enzymes that target phenols.
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Potential outcomes:
Decay occurs - This would make cubensis lignicolous (enough). However it's high pH and nitrogen preference likely makes it niche. Nothing - This would make cubensis non-lignicolous. It's reliant on trace soluble carbon, higher pH and nitrogen.
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Notes:
To germinate and grow out on wood, the mycelium will need an easy(ier) carbon source than cellulose. Since wood contains no simple sugars and no starches, the phenols must be targeted.
Coir is around 5x richer than wood in terms of nitrogen, (0.1% vs 0.5%).
Composted manure composition (Web, Image).
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Ferather]
#25588626 - 11/03/18 09:30 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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The peg was bald last night (about 10 hours ago), and now there is a tiny bit of growth. It looks like adaption has taken place after 4 days, so now I wait and see.
Growth is on and near the agar, the peg looks decayed.


Sorry about the image quality.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Ferather]
#25589048 - 11/03/18 12:50 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I feel like this thread is going off topic. I think the discussion of cubes colonizing wood deserves its own thread. We were discussing pans and coir.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Pastywhyte]
#25589102 - 11/03/18 01:18 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oh, ok, based on the thread name and original post, and several posts after, I guessed the question was generic.
Quote:
mary fairchild said: Here's a simple question,
Has it been PROVEN that coco coir provides ANY nutritional value as a substrate component for cubensis culture? Is there even strong evidence to the above?
In other words, is coir just a media to hold the grain, flour, bran etc. that are used as food sources?
I guess that pans came later?
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TreasonX
Mr.Blue



Registered: 10/08/17
Posts: 73
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Ferather]
#25589120 - 11/03/18 01:29 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just use whatever Coir bricks I can get for the absolute cheapest on amazon and it always seems to work out, they cannot be found in stores where I live I've looked everywhere.-
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,972
Loc: Canada
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Re: Coir as a nutrient source [Re: Ferather] 1
#25589178 - 11/03/18 02:07 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: Oh, ok, based on the thread name and original post, and several posts after, I guessed the question was generic.
Quote:
mary fairchild said: Here's a simple question,
Has it been PROVEN that coco coir provides ANY nutritional value as a substrate component for cubensis culture? Is there even strong evidence to the above?
In other words, is coir just a media to hold the grain, flour, bran etc. that are used as food sources?
I guess that pans came later?
You’re correct, the pans didn’t come until later. However it’s not about wood or other media. It’s about coir. If you have a lot of data on cubes on other media I think that merits its own thread.
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