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OfflineNikolaiMcGreggor
Shaman

Registered: 01/13/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Massachusettes sometimes ...
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!!
    #2550775 - 04/12/04 09:56 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I just went on a shrooming trip in West V. and South Carolina. I was pleasently suprised upon my arrival. I am still learning much about shrooms, but my cousin is pretty knowledgable. Basically this post is to let all you interested in west v. know that morels, psylocybe cubenis, and pan subbs are more than abbundant on the horse and cow farms of West V. Well, I'm beat from driving like a mad man even though i didn't do any of the driving. Have a good day hope this helps out. I'd still double check anything you pick but just so you know there is more to look for there.


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Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!

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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: NikolaiMcGreggor]
    #2550834 - 04/12/04 10:24 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

hmmmm, cubensis doesn't naturally grow in pastures in NE TN which is mighty close to WV....

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: debianlinux]
    #2551839 - 04/12/04 04:05 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

And they do not grow in West Virginaia either.

Good pointing that oout.

mj

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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2551903 - 04/12/04 04:26 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

MJ, how would you know? Have you hunted in West V. or are you regurgitating text from others?

I recall posting pics of Pan. subbs in a lawn. You argued and argued that they were not, because Pan. subbs don't grow in lawns. Yet now you acknowledge that they were subbs. Perhaps rather than saying....no they don't grow as an absolute statement, you should entertain the possibility in an educated manner.

Joshua


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OfflineSigno
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #2552013 - 04/12/04 05:11 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, a true scientist knows that there are no absolutes in their field....theories are only as good as the evidence behind them until they are disproven.  Mushroom habitat seems to be variable.  :headbang:


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Offlinepfshroomer
MASTER OF MY DOMAIN
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Signo]
    #2553031 - 04/13/04 12:14 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I agree with Joshua and Signo.
Although MJ is good at what he does I just feel as if he knows that he is wrong but it would be against his code of ethics to say that he was wrong because so many people take his word so profoundly because he his widely known and well respected as an enthomycologist,and he would let others down if he goes back on what he first said and corrects himself.
I am not picking sides here,but I am just asking MJ to give us explanations and proof if these certain mushrooms in fact do not grow in these areas mentioned in the above arguements,thanks for your time.
Peace,
PF~


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #2553670 - 04/13/04 08:19 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Joshua, I never said that Panaolus subbalteatus did not grow in grass. I just thought that your collection at first was Panaolina foenisecii, not Pn. subbs.

I have picked them in grass before and mentioned that they also appear in woodchips in the PNW. here in Seattle of which picture of them in woodchips was posted at my site.

I have also picked them once in Portland in grass, a small amount and also in SouthCenter here in Tukwilla.

However, Your patch appraently never regrew since you never posted newer images of it. It has been a few years since you first brought it to all of our attention (August 23, 2002).

The lawn shr0oms only ususally appear for two to three years until the landscappers stop refertilizing or until all the nutrients int he soils are used up.



AS for West Virginia, that is too far north for P. cubensis to grow. However, the big mushroom picking buist in Wheeler West Virginia turned out to be 80 arrested for shroom pickings. The reporter on the case said the mushrooms collected by pickers in Wheeler, West Virginia were probably Psilocybe caerulipes. He said images form my site and the color of the confiscated caps was the same as my photos of P. caerulipes.

mj

And whether someone believes me or not, well that is their problem, not mine.

mj

Edited by mjshroomer (04/13/04 08:56 AM)

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Offlinedoc34
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2554289 - 04/13/04 12:02 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

And whether someone believes me or not, well that is their problem, not mine.

mj

AMEN !


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #2555191 - 04/13/04 02:47 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MJ, how would you know? Have you hunted in West V. or are you regurgitating text from others?




He's correct. I live in VA and there aren't any growing (naturally) in this part of the country. Sorry...


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>

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Offlinepsilyhunter
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: grib]
    #2556455 - 04/13/04 06:57 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Nope. Nothing here in Wheeler! :wink:

Edited by psilyhunter (04/13/04 07:03 PM)

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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: NikolaiMcGreggor]
    #2557481 - 04/14/04 12:07 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

It would help if you could post pics of the specimens you found or if it's easier have your friend try to get some pics.

Currently there are no verified cubensis finds in W. Virginia that any of us are aware of. At this point, without evidence, it seems you and your friend have mis-identified the species you found.

I'd love to see some pics of the fruit bodies as well as some spore prints, as would most of us.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2557664 - 04/14/04 01:05 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

A quote from your words from the thread I mentioned, "Subbs grow cepitosely to gregarious in Manure. Not lawns and never singularly like in your colelctions."

The bed did fruit again, however much less. I can also provide you more pictures in which P. subbalteatus has fruited sparsley.

Here is a reported cubensis find with a picture from Virginia (Newport News). This was a very unexpected find according to the literature.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...part=1&vc=1

I also believe to have acclimated P. cubensis growing in my Pacific Northwest yard, this hasn?t been previously reported in literature either.

I think the best we can do is explain what the pattern of previous sightings has been, but to completely exclude new findings is not always true. I?m not saying that the user is right in his report, but that his report must be entertained.

I greatly appreciate the manner in which you have always handled the critisizm I give you. Thank you.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Offlinedebianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #2558145 - 04/14/04 07:24 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Joshua said:
...Here is a reported cubensis find with a picture from Virginia (Newport News). This was a very unexpected find according to the literature...

...to completely exclude new findings is not always true. I'm not saying that the user is right in his report, but that his report must be entertained...




Quote:

NikolaiMcGreggor Said:
Basically this post is to let all you interested in west v. know that morels, psylocybe cubenis, and pan subbs are more than abbundant on the horse and cow farms of West V.




just so we don't forget what was said here...

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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: debianlinux]
    #2558158 - 04/14/04 07:31 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Dibianlinux said,
Quote:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NikolaiMcGreggor Said:
Basically this post is to let all you interested in west v. know that morels, psylocybe cubenis, and pan subbs are more than abbundant on the horse and cow farms of West V.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



just so we don't forget what was said here...




It is most extremely rare to ever find Psilocybe cubensis growing directly in horse manure. Although LK and G GreatOne234 do found some in manure mixed in stable shavings. Whic is not the same as directly form manure.

Cows and buffalo, yes, horse manure no.

mj

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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! *DELETED* [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2560409 - 04/14/04 04:51 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Invisiblethescientist
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 807
Loc: Dade County
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #2560825 - 04/14/04 07:09 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

cubes grow in horse dung, with out a doubt. they dont like grain fed animals very much though. its not the natural way of things

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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: thescientist]
    #2561075 - 04/14/04 08:21 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Studies by me, Mark D. Merlin, Jochen Gartz and Tjakko Stijve of psilocine/psilocybine content in mushrooms appearing in manure of grain fed cattle in Hawaii produced a higher potent mushroom than those collected from manure appearing in natural grown wild alfalfa fed pastures.

We studied mushrooms from manure heaps at the University of Hawaii's Livestock and Experimental Farm on Oahu's north shore next to Sunset beach, home of the Billabong Surefing competition.

We did copmparative chemical analasys of Copelandia's from THE FARM AND THEN FROM KUALOA RANCH, DIAMOND RANCH, PARKER RANCH AND SEVERAL OTHERS FROM MAUI AND THE BIG ISLAND AS WELL AS OAHU.

P. CUBENSIS GROWS REALLY WELL IN CATTLE WHICH ARE GRAIN FED.

HATE THAT CAPITAL BUTTON.

mjshroomer

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Invisiblethescientist
Registered: 03/09/02
Posts: 807
Loc: Dade County
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2562511 - 04/15/04 06:00 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

seems to me we were talking about cubes and horses
not copes and cattle

gut fauna based on diet has a massive effect
on the qualities of the dung

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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: thescientist]
    #2562528 - 04/15/04 06:17 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Itr doesn'tr matter if the shrooms were cubes or copes. they both grow wellin grain fed cattles manuere and also, from my studies in southeast asia at the Quai farm, the buffalo fed at the farm are also grain fed and produce very potent P. cubensis shrooms which contained higher psilocybin levels than those which occured in rice-paddie straw in a field.

mj

I just used the cope images as an example of spore deposits.

myceliuym also occurs inside the stomach of the cow/buffalo which is yet another method of spore dispersal. The cow eats the shrooms or grass with the spores oin it.

Than the shit goes into one of the cows many stomachs.

I posted at my site, a series of pictures of a fresh manureheap, not there the day before which produced mushrooms for a twenty-oner day period. I actually photographed this fresh cow pie for 21 days, every three days after my initial find of it to show the progression of the mushrooms intheir various stages of growth and develpment. This was a pie which was fresh whent he habitat for P. cubensis and Copelandia cyanescens are from four to six weeks of decomposing to cause a fruiting.

mj

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InvisibleJoshua
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Registered: 10/27/98
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Loc: The Matrix
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2563442 - 04/15/04 12:17 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

myceliuym also occurs inside the stomach of the cow/buffalo




This is the second time I have seen you refer to mycelium growing or surviving in the gut of a cow. Do you have any documentation that mycelium can grow or survive the gut of a ruminant? It seems more plausable to me that the spores survive, are deposited along with the dung, and post-defacation germination allows the fungus to grow into the dung and then form fruiting bodies. Perhaps I need some further education on the subject.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #2563961 - 04/15/04 01:51 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Joshua, the photos of the 21 day growth of Copelandia cyanescens on fresh manure shows this for a fact.

They were growing from fresh manure on a trail at Kualoa Ranch. A trail I had actually followed every two to three days for many years.

On a day after going the day before, this fresh cowpie, not there the day before was as seen in my p cultivation section at my site.

The manure is fresh. and was not there before.

The shrooms grew from this manure heap for 21 days. I came back every three days to photograph it.

By the 21st day the manure was dried and hard from no rain and was half into the ground. IT was under trees to the right of a path I walked on a daily basis for years. Thus it was also protected from the hot noon sun as well as the rain falling at night.

I only originally photographed it that day because the shrooms were growing from fresh manure.

Therefore the mycelium probably grew while in the cows stomach.

The vast majority of Copes and cubes are generally found more or less in decomposed manure of four to six weeks.

mj

You can also see the progression of from many shrooms in the first couple flushes until eventually they get smaller every third day I came back and fewer as the time went by until there were small and eventually no more.

http://mushroomjohn.com/cult2.htm

mj

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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2564079 - 04/15/04 02:09 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Lol...that manure hardly looks fresh on day one. The pile has no form to it and looks like it has been there through rain and at least several days.

I find it more likely that the pile was an oversight on the observers behalf. I've seen P. cyans form fruits on agar 7 days post inoculation. There is no doubt that panaeolus will fruit quickly.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
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Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #2564259 - 04/15/04 02:46 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Joshua, that manure was fresh the day I started to photograph it.
AS I mentioned I had legal permission to collect specimens from every ranch on four islands in Hawaii fpor 8 years on Oahu.

I waled this trail everyday up and down the mountains of Kualoa. I knew when and where the shrooms grew on a regular basis and at what time fo the year.

This was a thick dark manure and was still moist when I found int int he morning. It was not there the day before.There is no doubt in that at all.

anyway,
have a shroomy day.

mj

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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #2564516 - 04/15/04 03:31 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I can look at the picture and doubt your observations. I also doubt that the mycelium would survive the gut of a ruminant to the degree that it would form full fruits within 24 hours of deposit.

Simple reasoning leads me to doubt your observations. I suggest you submit your tale to a professional mycologist and see what they have to say about it.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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OfflineBluMonkee
keeper of thelittle people

Registered: 06/23/03
Posts: 867
Loc: Lookin' for an Incident
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
Re: Just got back from West V! Oh Boy!!!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #2564936 - 04/15/04 04:54 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I especially like the hidden camera lens sticking out from under the pile of manure in the first pic  :thumbup: or maybe it's a Christmas ornament, I can't tell for sure  :crazy:


--------------------
"If I don't see ya' in the future, I'll see ya' in the pasture"

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