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What is worse Left or Right!
    #25506545 -

I can understand why people dont like Trump but the whole divide between left and right is abit hypocritical on both sides.So ive decided to try make this thread to see what side has done worse.

Please dont make this thread for arguing.
I also dont want bad things Trump or Hillary or anyone has done.

Im more concerned about the public actions. Especially as an outsider to caring about politics,its more the people with in these groups. Would i want to be assosiated with them or not? Why? Sort of thing.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: LetMeFree]
    #25506639 -

there is enough good and bad to go around.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: LetMeFree] * 1
    #25507185 -

LetMeFree said:
Please dont make this thread for arguing.
I also dont want bad things Trump or Hillary or anyone has done.



Good luck with that.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: LetMeFree]
    #25507852 -

politician is worse.  left/right is irrelevant.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Tulipslave]
    #25507923 -

Stuck in the middle with you...

When you don't participate you lose your voice. It kills me that some people don't vote at all.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: bendrider]
    #25508339 -

bendrider said:
Stuck in the middle with you...

When you don't participate you lose your voice. It kills me that some people don't vote at all.




it kills me that people don't see national politics for the charade that it is



see how that works?


words, lol

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Tulipslave] * 4
    #25508388 -

Left: we want better wages, healthcare, and equality

Right: deport all the brown people.


Me, rational centrist: I literally cant tell the difference!


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: LetMeFree]
    #25508443 -

LetMeFree said:
I can understand why people dont like Trump but the whole divide between left and right is abit hypocritical on both sides.So ive decided to try make this thread to see what side has done worse.

Please dont make this thread for arguing.
I also dont want bad things Trump or Hillary or anyone has done.

Im more concerned about the public actions. Especially as an outsider to caring about politics,its more the people with in these groups. Would i want to be assosiated with them or not? Why? Sort of thing.


I can’t tell you who you should associate yourself with without knowing anything about you. It’s nice to meet you by the way. I’ve been wanting to reach out to new members.

I personally don’t like Donald Trump. I am trying to focus on myself and be a better person. It might not seem like it but I try. Politics has a tendency to divide people, I wanna get away from that


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Rate me here

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Citizen X]
    #25508549 -

I’m not very politically oriented, and I haven’t voted since 2004. During all those years, I thought people arguing about politics was a waste of time since they personally have nothing to do with whatever outcome happens.
However, it appears to me that the left is childish and impulsive. They are the ones that are violent against people that don’t share their beliefs. I agree with some ideas from the left such as better and affordable health care (Obama really fucked that up) and drug reform. An increase in living wages would be nullified by increased immigration because of the effect of supply and demand on housing, yet they don’t want to think about that.
All of this shit with racial inequality could easily be solved IF each liberal would put their money where their mouth is and take a poor black family into THEIR home and personally be responsible for providing for them and their actions. They won’t do that, they expect for everybody in America to basically to do it for them.


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: JizzMasterZero] * 3
    #25508564 -

:lolwut:


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Mycolorado] * 3
    #25508576 -

Mycolorado said:
:lolwut:



The JizzMaster just unloaded a hot load of bullshit on everybody, that's what. It's a classic "I'm not an expert but..." whereby everything after the but are things he knows nothing about.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: JizzMasterZero]
    #25508595 -

JizzMasterZero said:
An increase in living wages would be nullified by increased immigration because of the effect of supply and demand on housing, yet they don’t want to think about that.


What does this mean JizzMaster? What does living wages have to do with immigration and what does immigration or living wages have to do with the supply and demand of housing?

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25508628 -

he thinks that supply and demand means that one can charge more than the market will bear for a product as long as there are plenty of immigrants around.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #25508704 -

The Ecstatic said:
Left: we want better wages, healthcare, and equality

Right: deport all the brown people.


Me, rational centrist: I literally cant tell the difference!


Great contribution to the thread, even two morons gave you a vote for it.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: qman]
    #25508993 -

I think that the two terms have become fairly bastardized over the years, and certainly they are vernacular to our system as it stands.

What can be argued however is that historically the left has been the driver of practically all modern systems and institutions. That includes science, arts, educations, human rights, workers rights, etc.. In fact, historically the conservative position has mostly been a view point of protectionism. That was case with much of the anti-science agenda driven by church and state in many societies, especially so in Greco-Romain, Chinese, Indian, and Byzantine cultures. When advancements happened, protectionists stepped in. Later this was seen during The Enlightenment, and today we see it in a vast anti-science culture cultivated by the current "right."

There is no debating that the quality of life for much of the world today is higher than it was 100 years ago, even if you include the poorest people in this world, many still benefit from modern medicines, technological advancements, etc. These advancements were driven by the left of the political spectrum (capitalism, democracy, etc.), not just from political movements, but from general progressive institutions as well, many of which were seen as a threat to the established order.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: qman] * 1
    #25509239 -

qman said:
two morons gave you a vote for it.




qman said:
Great contribution to the thread


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: relic] * 1
    #25510116 -

The right is far worse. But anyone with a 10th grade education should know thatb


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Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: King Klick]
    #25510445 -

King Klick said:
The right is far worse. But anyone with a 10th grade education should know thatb


Well there you go.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25510777 -

Right and left are both Americans who love America.


As far as the media goes FOX and CNN are the exact same thing . Two or three fairly legit journalist ie: Jake tapper on CNN(for the most part) and Chris Wallace on Fox. Then the rest of it is straight gotcha journalism garbage meant to scare or incite people into blindly hating the opposing side of the isle as if they're literal demons.

Some great examples of that are Chris matthews,Rachel Maddow, Tucker Carlson and possibly the Pioneer of this style Sean Hannity. They all cherry pick what fits the criteria of A) what makes the opposition look bad
B) What will give them a supposed moral high ground
C) how can they imply that their political enemies are in some big conspiracy against their party and often framed as being against the whole nation. And most depressing key to this formula is
D) Shutting down true debate with respect and honesty without agenda.I

Often they will bring 2 Republicans (or dems) out to agree with each other on Fox or CNN and then when they do bring an opposing views in to talk it's all gotcha questions that are so stupid they may as well be rhetorical + ganging up,talking over and shutting down conversion is ALL of the aforementioned hosts method of operation.

It's a seriously toxic echo chamber to be a part of.


--------------------
R.I.P
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Modest Mouse
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Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
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Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: bendrider]
    #25515904 -

The "left's" fatal flaw, IMO, is their inability to see beyond their own shortcomings.

The "right's" fatal flaw is their ability to not give a fuck.

In a way they end up checking each other somewhat effectively, but the power grab system and hierarchical structure leads to the same sorts of behaviors for both of them. Basically, they all have the same flaws to varying degrees among individuals and their groups.

A very common hypocrisy they can be guilty of is criticizing a person for voting their conscience or their pocketbook. Even worse they are very critical of the well informed voter with strong beliefs in their principles and voting based on that. Voting is such a toxic topic in today's culture, I avoid the conversations entirely.

There is no good or bad or bad and worse in that arena. If you view it in those terms you will be picking your poison and be someone's enemy. There is no greater example of this than the media, and so many people fall into that pit. This can be summed up perfectly with one word, fear.

bendrider said:
Stuck in the middle with you...

When you don't participate you lose your voice. It kills me that some people don't vote at all.


It's a flawed system. If there were 100% voter participation, it wouldn't make a difference. You don't lose your voice if you don't vote. There's a case to be made that not voting is the greatest voice you can have if you're dissatisfied. Some people don't vote is a gross understatement, a lot of people don't vote. You might say they're part of the problem, but that's coming from a place where you think you're part of the solution. We're all part of the same problem or problems along with having a variety of personal problems we have to solve.


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

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"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: LRG] * 1
    #25519247 -

If you care about personal liberty, such as gay rights, Marijuana legalization, or the rights of women to have an abortion, those are left wing ideals. If you care about freedom from religion, that is a left wing ideal. If you care about ending mass incarceration, that is a left wing ideal. If you care about ending prohibition of substances, that is generally considered a left wing ideal. If you care about the social safety net (food stamps, medicaid, and public housing), which protects those who have fallen on hard times, that is a left wing ideal. If you care about separation of church and state, that is a left wing ideal. If you care about protecting the environment, that is a left wing ideal.

If you care about deporting immigrants, enforcing biblically inspired laws that persecute gays and prevent women from getting legal abortions, those are right wing ideals. If you care about banning drugs, that is a right wing ideal. If you wish to engage in wars of aggression, and military conquest, that is a right wing ideal. If you care about tax breaks for the wealthy, that is a right wing ideal. If you care about gun rights, that is a right wing ideal.

If you care about fiscal responsibility... You must be neither :wink:

Left wing politics are more appealing to the majority, which is why left wing presidential candidates always win the popular vote. Right wing politicians maintain their seats by gerrymandering, and winning electoral votes. If it were left to the popular vote, we would not have had a Republican in the white house in decades.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25519416 -

I think you are guessing a lot for the conservative ideals. Why not take it from a true conservative?

I like small government with a powerful military to protect our daily lives. I like the government to stay out of the healthcare business. I like low regulations and taxes. I want marijuana legalized. I like like strong family values. I don't see individuals as belonging to groups, I see them based on merit. I like meritocracy rather than affirmative action. I want less immigration, more vetting, and no benefits for illegals. I support the constitution above all. I love free speech, don't believe in hate speech. I fucking love my guns.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25519505 -

Hi Im XUL and I'm a conservative, but I dont believe what you think. I'm for [insert any GOP campaign ad from the last 30 years].


Real radical stuff here folks. XUL is really blurring the line.


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25519632 -

I was a Democrat during most of Obama's presidency. I voted for him.

It was the biggest mistake I ever made.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25519647 -

A conservative who claims to be an ex-liberal? This has literally never happened before.


You're truly an enigma.


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25519681 -

It was a drastic change.

I ditched the Dems because they wanted to kill even moderate conservative values. Also the whole party went crazy with liberalism and acts of violence. People like ANTIFA really made me turn away from the left.

As soon as I caught wind of this social justice identity politics, I abandoned ship.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: XUL]
    #25519713 -

I actually campaigned against Obama in high school and voted for McCain. I’m still a registered republican with a lot of liberal views so it’s not as cookie cutter as people like to make it.

@ XUL I think you are more disillusioned with about 12 radical left senators and congress men and women that tour the more extreme side of being a democrat and left leaning. I condemn people like Maxine Waters or Nancy Peposi and they DO NOT speak for the citizen democrats all over America. Certainly not me. So to demonize all liberals and democrats because of that handful of far left people in power is completely unfair.


--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa, Jellyfish
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #25519746 -

2016 election
 
  Democrat - Hillary Clinton
  Republican - Donald Trump

  These candidates are really the best people both parties had to offer?  As usual on a national or local level pick the lesser of two evils.

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #25519754 -

After this recent Kavanaugh story, I am not so sure.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: XUL]
    #25519757 -

Small government gave me the biggest lol but The Whole post is funny though.

XUL said:
I think you are guessing a lot for the conservative ideals. Why not take it from a true conservative?

I like small government with a powerful military to protect our daily lives. I like the government to stay out of the healthcare business. I like low regulations and taxes. I want marijuana legalized. I like like strong family values. I don't see individuals as belonging to groups, I see them based on merit. I like meritocracy rather than affirmative action. I want less immigration, more vetting, and no benefits for illegals. I support the constitution above all. I love free speech, don't believe in hate speech. I fucking love my guns.


Thanks God there’s XUL to carry the freedom torch. May he never loose those conservative values.

God Speed


--------------------


Rate me here

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Citizen X]
    #25519763 -

:hugitout:


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: LetMeFree]
    #25520773 -



--------------------
"True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country - K. Vonnegut

“The real truth, that dare not speak itself, is that no one is in control. Absolutely no one.” ― Terence McKenna

"LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have never taken it." - Timothy Leary

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25522068 -

Bigbadwooof said:
If you care about personal liberty, such as gay rights, Marijuana legalization, or the rights of women to have an abortion, those are left wing ideals. If you care about freedom from religion, that is a left wing ideal. If you care about ending mass incarceration, that is a left wing ideal. If you care about ending prohibition of substances, that is generally considered a left wing ideal. If you care about the social safety net (food stamps, medicaid, and public housing), which protects those who have fallen on hard times, that is a left wing ideal. If you care about separation of church and state, that is a left wing ideal. If you care about protecting the environment, that is a left wing ideal.

If you care about deporting immigrants, enforcing biblically inspired laws that persecute gays and prevent women from getting legal abortions, those are right wing ideals. If you care about banning drugs, that is a right wing ideal. If you wish to engage in wars of aggression, and military conquest, that is a right wing ideal. If you care about tax breaks for the wealthy, that is a right wing ideal. If you care about gun rights, that is a right wing ideal.

If you care about fiscal responsibility... You must be neither :wink:

Left wing politics are more appealing to the majority, which is why left wing presidential candidates always win the popular vote. Right wing politicians maintain their seats by gerrymandering, and winning electoral votes. If it were left to the popular vote, we would not have had a Republican in the white house in decades.


Too many generalizations in this post, that's part of the problem.

You do realize politicians on the left are also responsible for drug laws, high incarceration levels, the existing tax structure, military spending and wars?

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: qman]
    #25522374 -

qman said:
You do realize politicians on the left are also responsible for drug laws


The politicians on the left do share some responsibility for the drug laws, but not nearly as much as Republicans.

The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 was signed into law by Richard Nixon (Republican). This is where the "Scheduled" substances come from. Schedule I, Schedule II, etc.

The DEA was established by Richard Nixon (Republican)

Ronald Reagan, a Republican, signed the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 which created mandatory minimums for drug offenses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Drug_Abuse_Act_of_1986

It is Republicans candidates that get all the support from police and prison guard unions who don't want decriminalization or legalization because their workers will lose jobs.

It's Donald Trump (Republican) who is out today supporting stop and frisk.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-delivers-remarks-at-chiefs-of-police-annual-convention-live-stream/


qman said:
high incarceration levels


Please explain how the Democrats are responsible for high incarceration levels.

Some Democrats might share a some of the blame, but that is definitely mostly Republicans. Republicans were the ones who created an atmosphere where candidates had to come across as "hard on drugs" or they couldn't get elected. Reagan is the one who created mandatory minimums for drug offenses, which is one of the biggest contributing factors to our overcrowded prisons.


Quote:
qman said:
the existing tax structure


What's your point? My only problem with the tax structure is that the rich don't pay enough. But yeah, thank goodness for those Trump tax cuts! What a fucking joke. I didn't even get enough money back to cover half of my rent for a month, but yeah, thanks so much for those tax cuts Republicans! What a life saver!


qman said:
military spending and wars?


I won't argue this one. Democrats are definitely equally responsible for the out of control military spending

Edited by waves (10/08/18 04:52 PM)

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: XUL]
    #25522410 -

XUL said:
I was a Democrat during most of Obama's presidency. I voted for him.

It was the biggest mistake I ever made.


I seriously doubt that.

XUL said:
I think you are guessing a lot for the conservative ideals. Why not take it from a true conservative?

I like small government with a powerful military to protect our daily lives. I like the government to stay out of the healthcare business. I like low regulations and taxes. I want marijuana legalized. I like like strong family values. I don't see individuals as belonging to groups, I see them based on merit. I like meritocracy rather than affirmative action. I want less immigration, more vetting, and no benefits for illegals. I support the constitution above all. I love free speech, don't believe in hate speech. I fucking love my guns.



So you think marijuana should be legalized? What about all other drugs?

I ask because one of my biggest problems with Republicans is that they support 2nd amendment rights, but most are strongly against the legalization of all drugs.

To me, this position is completely idiotic and indefensible. I agree that we should have the right to bear arms, but I also believe I should have the right to use and possess any drug I want to.

The idea that people should be able to own a bunch of fucking guns, but that some drugs are just too dangerous to legalized and regulated is beyond idiotic to me.

Guns are tools designed specifically for killing OTHER people (and animals), yet they are legal to buy and own.

Meanwhile, certain drugs are illegal because some people accidentally hurt THEMSELVES while using them.

It is just pure idiocy. Is that what Republicans consider "small government"? Letting the government tell people what they can and can't put in their own bodies?

Why are so many Republicans unable to see that this position doesn't make any sense?

Edited by waves (10/08/18 04:36 PM)

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: waves]
    #25522593 -

I would be willing to bet money that XUL was not an adult in 2008


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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: waves]
    #25522656 -

waves said:
qman said:
You do realize politicians on the left are also responsible for drug laws


The politicians on the left do share some responsibility for the drug laws, but not nearly as much as Republicans.

The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 was signed into law by Richard Nixon (Republican). This is where the "Scheduled" substances come from. Schedule I, Schedule II, etc.

The DEA was established by Richard Nixon (Republican)

Ronald Reagan, a Republican, signed the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986 which created mandatory minimums for drug offenses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Drug_Abuse_Act_of_1986

It is Republicans candidates that get all the support from police and prison guard unions who don't want decriminalization or legalization because their workers will lose jobs.

It's Donald Trump (Republican) who is out today supporting stop and frisk.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-delivers-remarks-at-chiefs-of-police-annual-convention-live-stream/


qman said:
high incarceration levels


Please explain how the Democrats are responsible for high incarceration levels.

Some Democrats might share a some of the blame, but that is definitely mostly Republicans. Republicans were the ones who created an atmosphere where candidates had to come across as "hard on drugs" or they couldn't get elected. Reagan is the one who created mandatory minimums for drug offenses, which is one of the biggest contributing factors to our overcrowded prisons.


Quote:
qman said:
the existing tax structure


What's your point? My only problem with the tax structure is that the rich don't pay enough. But yeah, thank goodness for those Trump tax cuts! What a fucking joke. I didn't even get enough money back to cover half of my rent for a month, but yeah, thanks so much for those tax cuts Republicans! What a life saver!


qman said:
military spending and wars?


I won't argue this one. Democrats are definitely equally responsible for the out of control military spending


https://www.factcheck.org/2016/04/bill-clinton-and-the-1994-crime-bill/

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/08/27/repeal-of-glass-steagall-caused-the-financial-crisis

Thanks Clinton.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nafta-signed-into-law

Thanks again Bill. 

Were you paying attention to politics in the 1990's?

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Re: What is worse Left or Right! [Re: waves]
    #25522661 -

waves said:
XUL said:
I was a Democrat during most of Obama's presidency. I voted for him.

It was the biggest mistake I ever made.


I seriously doubt that.

XUL said:
I think you are guessing a lot for the conservative ideals. Why not take it from a true conservative?

I like small government with a powerful military to protect our daily lives. I like the government to stay out of the healthcare business. I like low regulations and taxes. I want marijuana legalized. I like like strong family values. I don't see individuals as belonging to groups, I see them based on merit. I like meritocracy rather than affirmative action. I want less immigration, more vetting, and no benefits for illegals. I support the constitution above all. I love free speech, don't believe in hate speech. I fucking love my guns.



So you think marijuana should be legalized? What about all other drugs?

I ask because one of my biggest problems with Republicans is that they support 2nd amendment rights, but most are strongly against the legalization of all drugs.

To me, this position is completely idiotic and indefensible. I agree that we should have the right to bear arms, but I also believe I should have the right to use and possess any drug I want to.

The idea that people should be able to own a bunch of fucking guns, but that some drugs are just too dangerous to legalized and regulated is beyond idiotic to me.

Guns are tools designed specifically for killing OTHER people (and animals), yet they are legal to buy and own.

Meanwhile, certain drugs are illegal because some people accidentally hurt THEMSELVES while using them.

It is just pure idiocy. Is that what Republicans consider "small government"? Letting the government tell people what they can and can't put in their own bodies?

Why are so many Republicans unable to see that this position doesn't make any sense?


Because just like Democrats, they defend their "ideology" despite its obvious contradictions.

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