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 Nimph
Im Unclecaptainblue!!!!
Registered: 08/12/18
Posts: 1,605
Loc: The dirty
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 Has anyone ever crossed edibles? 
#25479686 - 09/22/18 02:26 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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Im curious, so like crossing oysters to maybe get a new color if it can even work like that or crossing reishi, tooth fungi ect. To suit your environment or needs.
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 drake89
Mushroom Magnate
 
Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: Nimph]
#25482999 - 09/23/18 01:00 PM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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One of the definitions of species is an inability to mate with other species. So in a word - no.
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Nimph
Im Unclecaptainblue!!!!
Registered: 08/12/18
Posts: 1,605
Loc: The dirty
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: drake89]
#25483078 - 09/23/18 01:37 PM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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So even if theyre closely related hu? What if i get them good an drunk?
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DigitalRhizae
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: Nimph]
#25483382 - 09/23/18 04:03 PM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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By crossing do you mean crossing or hybridizing?
In plants and animals it's possible to hybridize two different species that are within the same genus and produce a new species. For example, mules are a hybrid of horse and donkey, Brassica napus (canola) is a hybrid of B. rapa and B. oleracea etc. Cannabis sativa and Cannabis indica have been hybridized. Hybridization does occur in nature, but is supposedly rare.
Crossing the same species to produce different varieties or strains in plants is very common and is done all the time.
This same sort of concept can be applied to grafting. You can readily graft two different varieties or species of plants to each other, an apple to an apple for example. But grafting a pear to an apple is much more difficult,even though they are in the same family (Roseaceae), however it is possible. But a hybrid of the two isn't possible naturally as they are too dissimilar. You don't see apples growing on roses for example. Generally speaking if they are in the same genus grafting should be technically possible. And if they are in the same family it's possible but much more difficult and short lived.
As for mushrooms, I imagine the same concepts would apply. I've read in one of my mushrooms books that oyster mushrooms do hybridize (I believe it's hybridization, I'll have to find the book and check) readily in nature, which is why there are so many different species that produce things like different colors etc. But hybridizing reishi with tooth fungus for example wont work naturally because they are too dissimilar.
If anyone more knowledgeable in this area see any mistakes in what I am saying, please correct me.
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drake89
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Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: DigitalRhizae]
#25484552 - 09/24/18 07:17 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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The most extensive species work with breed pleurotus spp. Has been the spopo. Sporeless oyster. I don't know the history but someone recently had bred another version to avoid paying royalties on a spawn that is patented.
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Nimph
Im Unclecaptainblue!!!!
Registered: 08/12/18
Posts: 1,605
Loc: The dirty
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: drake89]
#25486382 - 09/24/18 07:17 PM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hm ill read any papers i can find on that an try oysters for cloning.
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Blastfrompast
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Registered: 06/16/18
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: Nimph]
#25486398 - 09/24/18 07:21 PM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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Anyone have a link to the sporeless oyster stuff
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist
Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands 
Last seen: 8 months, 3 days
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: Blastfrompast]
#25487326 - 09/25/18 06:58 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just google "Spoppo" ?
http://www.gombaforum.hu/en/2015/gazdasag/fajtavedelem/
So yea there are breeder rights etc, but I am not sure how easy it is for them to prove that you are using their variety, I guess they could sue you and make you explain how you came across a sporeless oyster variety you are growing and it is mostly a matter of how interested they are in sueing people illegally cloning/copying and producing, and the scale on which you are doing this.
Maybe when there are at least 2 sporeless varieties developed (licence owned) by different companies it would already be incredibly hard for them to prove that you have copied theirs and not the other... I think this is also why there is interest in genetic labeling (if the labeling is even necessary) as genetic analysis should be able to show it.
correct me if I'm wrong about any of this..
also no idea how all of this extends legally internationally but they would be remiss not to file a patent in the US for example.
thus afaik it is breaking the law to do anything with their sporeless variety especially if you are making money off of it.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate
Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: Solipsis]
#25487354 - 09/25/18 07:06 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think the 2nd strain wold have been developed (it is an f2 back cross btw) if the patent was not enforced. For some reason no one grows it here I think bc it's not available from Sylvan and the market i's not used to the different morphology of spoppo.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist
Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 8 months, 3 days
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: drake89]
#25487721 - 09/25/18 10:31 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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I work with spoppo 2.. but I thought a variety from another source was mentioned, I don't think that would be called spoppo, right? spoppo 2 must be from the same place(s) as spoppo..?
Also i never heard about morphology being an issue - good oysters are good oysters? but hey that is on a relatively small scale, nothing like wholesale.
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lipa
Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: Solipsis]
#25489337 - 09/25/18 10:28 PM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here is a sporeless natural variety I found in Arizona a while ago. It doesn't know which way is up and doesn't make spores. I started it from spores I collected.
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist
Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,398
Loc: the Neitherlands
Last seen: 8 months, 3 days
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: lipa]
#25500483 - 09/30/18 11:04 AM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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What I don't get about "sporeless" varieties is whether they are absolutely sporeless (like from entirely dysfunctional basidia) or mostly sporeless just like leucistic is not quite albino?
If yours is truly sporeless lipa and you started it from spores, then it does produce *some* spores? Or did the mutation occur apparently after you germinated them?
Either way that looks really cool! I'm quite interested  gj
Is it limited in production, or?..
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lipa
Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Has anyone ever crossed edibles? [Re: Solipsis]
#25501550 - 09/30/18 05:20 PM (5 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Solipsis said:
What I don't get about "sporeless" varieties is whether they are absolutely sporeless (like from entirely dysfunctional basidia) or mostly sporeless just like leucistic is not quite albino?
If yours is truly sporeless lipa and you started it from spores, then it does produce *some* spores? Or did the mutation occur apparently after you germinated them?
Either way that looks really cool! I'm quite interested gj
Is it limited in production, or?..
The variation is that it doesn't know which way is up so it doesn't make spores. You are right that sporeless varieties are not all truly sporeless. They produce a minuscule amount.
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