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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25609896 -

Believe it or not, I've done nothing but try to help you in this thread, starting with my first response to you, which holds true, as evidenced by this little gem:
Quote:
I can see that you don't find anything wrong with using violence to squash one's political opponents.  Thanks for clarifying your position.


coming in hot on the heels of this:
Quote:
When I said, "there is not a whole lot of differences between these two", I meant that there is no difference between militant antifascism and using outright violence against fascists.  I did not mean that there is no difference between antifascists and fascists.


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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25609909 -

ballsalsa said:
Believe it or not, I've done nothing but try to help you in this thread, starting with my first response to you, which holds true, as evidenced by this little gem:
Quote:
I can see that you don't find anything wrong with using violence to squash one's political opponents.  Thanks for clarifying your position.


coming in hot on the heels of this:
Quote:
When I said, "there is not a whole lot of differences between these two", I meant that there is no difference between militant antifascism and using outright violence against fascists.  I did not mean that there is no difference between antifascists and fascists.



Fair enough.  Sorry for having said what I said, if you truly tried to help me.

So, in the spirit of discussion, can you tell me how you feel about using violence to squash one's political opponents?

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: TinyBee]
    #25609924 -

it can be right or wrong depending on the specific circumstances.  I'll grant that leaves much room for subjective judgement, but it's human behavior we're talking about here.  I'm pretty comfortable saying that beating up nazis isn't as bad as gassing jews, for example, even though there are probably some morons out there who disagree.

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25609956 -

ballsalsa said:
it can be right or wrong depending on the specific circumstances.  I'll grant that leaves much room for subjective judgement, but it's human behavior we're talking about here.  I'm pretty comfortable saying that beating up nazis isn't as bad as gassing jews, for example, even though there are probably some morons out there who disagree.


But you know very well that's not the debate.  What's the criteria for being called a Nazi supporter today?    Do you see my point and how subjective and abusive it has become today?

Disagree with them just on ONE issue and you're now a Nazi. Since you're now a "Nazi" violence is the most appropriate method going forward to deal with you.

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: qman] * 1
    #25610002 -

I already said that it is subjective.  I stated my position pretty clearly in that thread about the nazi that got punched in oregon.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24641469#24641469

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: qman] * 1
    #25610046 -

qman said:
ballsalsa said:
it can be right or wrong depending on the specific circumstances.  I'll grant that leaves much room for subjective judgement, but it's human behavior we're talking about here.  I'm pretty comfortable saying that beating up nazis isn't as bad as gassing jews, for example, even though there are probably some morons out there who disagree.


But you know very well that's not the debate.  What's the criteria for being called a Nazi supporter today?    Do you see my point and how subjective and abusive it has become today?

Disagree with them just on ONE issue and you're now a Nazi. Since you're now a "Nazi" violence is the most appropriate method going forward to deal with you.


This from the guy who thinks David fucking Frum is alt left.


--------------------

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610137 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
ballsalsa said:
it can be right or wrong depending on the specific circumstances.  I'll grant that leaves much room for subjective judgement, but it's human behavior we're talking about here.  I'm pretty comfortable saying that beating up nazis isn't as bad as gassing jews, for example, even though there are probably some morons out there who disagree.


But you know very well that's not the debate.  What's the criteria for being called a Nazi supporter today?    Do you see my point and how subjective and abusive it has become today?

Disagree with them just on ONE issue and you're now a Nazi. Since you're now a "Nazi" violence is the most appropriate method going forward to deal with you.


This from the guy who thinks David fucking Frum is alt left.


Frum played one role and then quickly went back to his own tribe when the time required.  If you can't see this obvious reality, I don't know what to tell you. 

Do I need to spell it out for you?  Or you already knew this basic fact all along?

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: qman] * 2
    #25610148 -

What are you even talking about? David Frum is a neoconservative warhawk.


Just because there are people farther right than him doesn’t make him a leftist. Or did you already know this basic fact all along?


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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610166 -

The Ecstatic said:
What are you even talking about? David Frum is a neoconservative warhawk.


Just because there are people farther right than him doesn’t make him a leftist. Or did you already know this basic fact all along?


He wanted military operations that supported Israel in that region in the world.

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25610190 -

ballsalsa said:
I'm pretty comfortable saying that beating up nazis isn't as bad as gassing jews,


Correct me if wrong, but are you saying that if the end goal is lofty enough, it justifies the use of violence?  What if some pro-lifers think that saving the fetuses' lives is a very lofty goal, so they turn to violence (such as bombing abortion clinics) in order to achieve their goal?

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #25610197 -

then they have to pay the legal consequences of doing what they think is right despite the laws of the society they live in.

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: qman] * 3
    #25610204 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
What are you even talking about? David Frum is a neoconservative warhawk.


Just because there are people farther right than him doesn’t make him a leftist. Or did you already know this basic fact all along?


He wanted military operations that supported Israel in that region in the world.


Okay? Is this where you claim the right wing militarized ethnostate is alt left?


--------------------

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610225 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
What are you even talking about? David Frum is a neoconservative warhawk.


Just because there are people farther right than him doesn’t make him a leftist. Or did you already know this basic fact all along?


He wanted military operations that supported Israel in that region in the world.


Okay? Is this where you claim the right wing militarized ethnostate is alt left?


You still don't get it.  When someone infiltrates government to sponsor interests for their own tribe, they're no longer conservative with nationalistic interests. 

That makes them on the other side of the political spectrum with nationalistic motives for their own tribe.

Frum clearly puts his tribe first, that does NOT make him a true US nationalistic conservative.

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: qman] * 3
    #25610253 -

Lol wait, so you really bought the “true conservatives want small government” line?

Christ. I thought people realized that was horseshit when Reagan was in office.


--------------------

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25610268 -

ballsalsa said:
then they have to pay the legal consequences of doing what they think is right despite the laws of the society they live in.


I am not asking you what consequences they would have to face.  I am asking you whether you think it's good that the right-wingers can use violence against the left-wingers as long as they think their goal is worthy.

Edited by TinyBee (11/12/18 06:02 PM)

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610273 -

The Ecstatic said:
Lol wait, so you really bought the “true conservatives want small government” line?

Christ. I thought people realized that was horseshit when Reagan was in office.


I have no idea what you're even talking about, the size of government has nothing to do with the discussion.

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: qman]
    #25610312 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
What are you even talking about? David Frum is a neoconservative warhawk.


Just because there are people farther right than him doesn’t make him a leftist. Or did you already know this basic fact all along?


He wanted military operations that supported Israel in that region in the world.


Okay? Is this where you claim the right wing militarized ethnostate is alt left?


You still don't get it.  When someone infiltrates government to sponsor interests for their own tribe, they're no longer conservative with nationalistic interests. 

That makes them on the other side of the political spectrum with nationalistic motives for their own tribe.

Frum clearly puts his tribe first, that does NOT make him a true US nationalistic conservative.


Oh gawd, their’s a new thing called a “nationalist conservative “  :justcantwait:


--------------------


Rate me here

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: qman]
    #25610328 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Lol wait, so you really bought the “true conservatives want small government” line?

Christ. I thought people realized that was horseshit when Reagan was in office.


I have no idea what you're even talking about, the size of government has nothing to do with the discussion.


You seem to think conservativism means you can’t have international relations, or strategic allies. History paints a different picture.


--------------------

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610394 -

TinyBee said:
ballsalsa said:
then they have to pay the legal consequences of doing what they think is right despite the laws of the society they live in.


I am not asking you what consequences they would have to face.  I am asking you whether you think it's good that the right-wingers can use violence against the left-wingers as long as they think their goal is worthy.


I don't know whether the ability for right-wingers to commit violence is objectively good or bad.  I think we've established that such things are subjective in many ways.  If you're asking me my opinion on abortion clinic bombers, i think they're reprehensible, and that's coming from someone who doesn't care for abortions.

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Re: Humans of the Alt-Left: A Compendium [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25611360 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Lol wait, so you really bought the “true conservatives want small government” line?

Christ. I thought people realized that was horseshit when Reagan was in office.


I have no idea what you're even talking about, the size of government has nothing to do with the discussion.


You seem to think conservativism means you can’t have international relations, or strategic allies. History paints a different picture.


Nice strawman.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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