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OfflineTripsahoy420
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Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound * 3
    #25475146 - 09/20/18 11:59 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound
Ryan F. Mandelbaum
Today 11:00am

When humans take the drug MDMA, versions of which are known as molly or ecstasy, they commonly feel very happy, extraverted, and particularly interested in physical touch. A group of scientists recently wondered whether this drug might have a similar effect on other species—specifically, octopuses, which are seemingly as different from humans as an animal can be. The results of their experiment, in which seven octopuses took MDMA, were “unbelievable.”

Just think about an octopus—other than their impressive intelligence, they have little in common with humans. We’ve been heading along different branches of the evolutionary tree for 500 million years. Rather than one localized brain with a cortex, or a highly folded outer layer like our brains have, an octopus’s decentralized nervous system includes control centers for each arm in addition to a brain.

Given how different we are, Dölen and her colleague Eric Edsinger wondered whether the chemistry behind human social behaviors—the system controlling the serotonin molecule—also existed in the solitary, asocial octopus. They began by analyzing the octopus genome, and found that octopuses, too, have genes that seem to code for serotonin transporters, proteins responsible for moving serotonin molecules into brain cells. Serotonin is the molecule generally considered to be responsible for feeling good. When humans take MDMA, it binds to serotonin transporter proteins and changes the way serotonin travels between brain cells, likely producing the warm and fuzzy high and perhaps the increased extraversion that the drug is known for.

The fun began when the researchers gave MDMA to seven Octopus bimaculoides octopuses inside laboratory tanks. They hoped to test whether the animals behaved more socially after receiving a dose of MDMA—a sign that the drug bound to their serotonin transporters.

After hanging out in a bath containing ecstasy, the animals moved to a chamber with three rooms to pick from: a central room, one containing a male octopus and another containing a toy. This is a setup frequently used in mice studies. Before MDMA, the octopuses avoided the male octopus. But after the MDMA bath, they spent more time with the other octopus, according to the study published in Current Biology. They also touched the other octopus in what seemed to be an exploratory, rather than aggressive, manner.

The scientists took this to mean that despite our vastly different brains, social behavior is built into the very molecules coded by our DNA, Dölen explained.

“An octopus doesn’t have a cortex, and doesn’t have a reward circuit,” Gül Dölen, assistant professor of neuroscience at Johns Hopkins University, told Gizmodo. “And yet it’s able to respond to MDMA and produce the same effects, in an animal with a totally different brain organization. To me, that means we really need to appreciate that the business end of these things is at the level of the molecule.”

You’re probably curious: did the octopuses freak out? The scientists didn’t discuss such behavior in the paper, because it’s hard to quantify without anthropomorphizing the octopuses—Dölen warned me that the following is anecdotal evidence and not scientific observation. But yes, the octopuses acted like they took ecstasy. At first, when they received a little too much MDMA, they breathed erratically and turned white. But on lower doses, one animal “looked like it was doing water ballet,” swimming around with outstretched arms. Another spent part of the time doing flips, and another seemed especially interested in minor sounds and smells.

“This was such an incredible paper, with a completely unexpected and almost unbelievable outcome,” Judit Pungor, a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Oregon not involved in the study, told Gizmodo. “To think that an animal whose brain evolved completely independently from our own reacts behaviorally in the same way that we do to a drug is absolutely amazing.”

There are limitations to the study, of course. Dölen pointed out that seven octopuses isn’t a large enough sample size to show differences between how males and females react to MDMA. She’d like to further test the changes in behavior, as well as what happens if they block the serotonin transmitter before giving the MDMA. Such a test would convince Dölen that she was really seeing the affects of MDMA on serotonin transporters. Pungor also wanted to test whether the drug would have different effects on octopuses of varying ages, or whether an octopus’s upbringing changed its sociality.

It’s clear that psychoactive drugs like MDMA, LSD, and magic mushrooms are going through a scientific renaissance—they’re being studied as potential treatments for depression and PTSD—and as their stigma decreases, scientists are more open to studying them, and more research funding becomes available. This could be important for our understanding of animal and human brains.

“People are beginning to recognize that these drugs are powerful tools for understanding how the brain evolved,” Dölen told Gizmodo. “They’re such strong activators of these behaviors. It’s not subtle.”

https://gizmodo.com/scientists-gave-mdma-to-octopuses-and-what-happened-was-1829191638


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Tripsahoy420]
    #25475166 - 09/20/18 12:10 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

...:congrats:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Amanita86]
    #25475172 - 09/20/18 12:14 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

"octopi" lol

Crazy! I wouldnt think any octopus would have the serotonin receptors needed.


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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Offlinepsillyboy
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Fractal420] * 1
    #25475296 - 09/20/18 12:58 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Octopus Rave


--------------------
"True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country - K. Vonnegut

“The real truth, that dare not speak itself, is that no one is in control. Absolutely no one.” ― Terence McKenna

"LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have never taken it." - Timothy Leary

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OfflineGupp
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: psillyboy]
    #25475744 - 09/20/18 03:55 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

octopii are clearly intelligent.

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InvisibleTulipslave
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: psillyboy]
    #25475760 - 09/20/18 03:59 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

At first, when they received a little too much MDMA, they breathed erratically and turned white. But on lower doses, one animal “looked like it was doing water  ballet,” swimming around with outstretched arms. Another spent part of the time doing flips, and another seemed especially interested in minor sounds and smells.







gee, who'dve thunk that any other animal aside from a human would have, drumroll please, PERSONALITY AND INDIVIDUAL PREFERENCES, :cookiemonster:


i would love to see further investigation into these kinds of trials, which might help to end the illogical debate over whether or not non-human animals are aware/cognizant and maintain distinct personalities.

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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Tulipslave]
    #25475938 - 09/20/18 04:59 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

It's not the touch of God.  Really profound incarnations.

Feelijng God is a very complex freaky thing.  I don't really get the social aspect of drugs but aggression motivation issues seem to be profoundly dumb.

Feeling God is very freaky but addictive.  Just wicked wicked reality.

We are so not ready for aliens.  I felt that reading about native american boys talked to on campus.

The strange thing about scientist is they are horny nerds.  Like knowing the future changes anything?  Knowing is knowing all existence.  It's creating everything that ever existed in any way whatsoever and looks really really guilty.

Imagine being responsible for all bad things that ever occured? 

The universe has an uncertain fate.  But I enjoy hearing stories about it.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflineCoolwhip GA
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Tulipslave]
    #25475962 - 09/20/18 05:09 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

No doubt octopi are intelligent, but whether they are conscious or sentient is a little harder to determine. Social behavior doesn't necessarily require it to be so.

What is really interesting about octopi is over 2/3 of their total neuron count aren't located in their heads at all, let alone a central brain, it's as if each tentacle has it's own brain worth of neurons.

Octopi can do some amazing things under observation, such as using tools and manipulating their physical environment, which make them appear genius, but that is probably more us projecting onto them. Octopi have 500,000,000 neurons, less than 1/3 located in their heads, of that 1/3 about half are found concentrated around its optic lobes. A human has 21,000,000,000 in our cerebral cortex alone(over 80 billion total).

For comparison, a cat has 760,000,000 of which 300 million are found in the cerebral cortex, pigs and raccoons have about ~450 million in their cerebral cortex.

An African Elephant has 257 Billion, almost 3x as many as a human, but just under 6 billion are found in the cerebral cortex(1/3 as many as a human) BUT a long finned pilot whale(a large dolphin species) has over 37 billion neurons in its cerebral cortex, more than TWICE as many as a human.

Edited by Coolwhip GA (09/20/18 05:21 PM)

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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Coolwhip GA]
    #25476988 - 09/21/18 03:40 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Pretty cruel giving Octopuses this toxic drug without their consent.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound *DELETED* [Re: Peyote Road]
    #25477034 - 09/21/18 04:44 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by lessismore

Reason for deletion: jesus saves

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: lessismore]
    #25477097 - 09/21/18 05:28 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Next - dose dolphins

Yes its been done but id imagine they would make great candidates for testing psychedelics

But in reality i think unwittingly dosing intelligent animals is a bit cruel. I mean shit especially the "experimental" doses sometimes used, could be a Marine MKULTRA. I think MDMA in particular is a pretty harsh substance for an octopus. Its an amphetamine with a potentially devastating crash (esp depending on dose) and while the first dose, first 5-6 hrs may be interesting to the octopus, they prolly dont get any benzos, and they might be dosed again soon. This may be safer with psilocybin, i just consider mdma to be a tough substance, i find its only comfortable in a slim dose margin (for me- 100 to 200mg or so, if its pure crystal.) I am also sensitive to shit like adderall. But 10-20mg is fine


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Fractal420]
    #25477114 - 09/21/18 05:41 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Amanita86]
    #25477176 - 09/21/18 06:11 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Thats the first thing i said. John C Lilly had some fun with that

Super interesting story about getting the dolphin off, though, lol. Never read that part


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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OfflineCoolwhip GA
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Fractal420] * 1
    #25477499 - 09/21/18 09:11 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

TO those of you talking about how cruel this is...you do know we eat octopi right? In many cases while they are still alive.

I'm not condoning such behavior, or even weighing in on the ethics of dosing them, just trying to put it in perspective for you.

Edited by Coolwhip GA (09/21/18 09:13 AM)

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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Coolwhip GA]
    #25477799 - 09/21/18 11:47 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Psychotherapy for sea creatures.


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Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!!

Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: WhoManBeing]
    #25477858 - 09/21/18 12:07 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Social lessons can be very severe.  What creatures do for fun. 

Suppose mdma is like captivity.  Speeds up urgancy.  Slowing down some other features.

Imtend to believe that in all creatures we can self sooth.  Dreams can be ecstasy.  It's hard to slow down enough and fill in the blanks.  So much of a brain is space.  It's always thinking with death and life.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Coolwhip GA]
    #25479667 - 09/22/18 02:11 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coolwhip GA said:
TO those of you talking about how cruel this is...you do know we eat octopi right? In many cases while they are still alive.

I'm not condoning such behavior, or even weighing in on the ethics of dosing them, just trying to put it in perspective for you.




I used to eat them, I am Italian and my dad makes a mean octopus salad. But we always got them frozen.

I still think it's cruel however. Killing a wild animal and eating it has been a necessary part of survival for many creatures, not just humans. It's just part of life on this planet.  In most cases it's over pretty quick, even if the animal suffers a painful death.

However when it comes to experimenting on animals it's a different story. The suffering is potentially far more prolonged. The animal has no idea what's happening, whereas animals understand being hunted and killed. And the benefits of it are often questionable. I mean it often amounts to torturing animals so scientists can get off. Do we really need to know how octopi respond to MDMA? There is just something disrespectful to the animal about experimenting on it. I feel like you can have total respect for an animal and still hunt it, but I don't think I could say the same thing about holding it captive and performing experiments on it.

The same is true for humans. For example, killing humans isn't always looked down upon. In wars for instance, it's considered ok to kill humans. However performing potentially very harmful experiments on humans without their consent is generally frowned upon, even if those people are enemies or criminals. We could learn a lot scientifically if we allowed convicted murderers to be experimented on, but it's considered inhumane. I feel like the same principle applies to innocent animals.

Edited by Peyote Road (09/22/18 02:16 AM)

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Peyote Road]
    #25479848 - 09/22/18 05:38 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I think itd be fine if it were lsd or psilo. Something about mdma, its a very harsh substance beyond like (human) 100-200mg (oral)


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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OfflinePNW FunGuy
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Fractal420]
    #25481515 - 09/22/18 06:59 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I think they probably chose MDMA instead of Lucy or psilo because of its consistent effects of positivity, and overall wellbeing. Id be really interested to see the details of the dosing process though, I mean from what I gathered they literally just mixed pure MDMA into a smaller tank, dropped them in for awhile and then moved them to the lab mouse type setup with the 3 options. I think at least most of us here have had at least one experience with L/Ps where someone took it for the first, second, third time and they just spiral out of control (obviously being shown things they didn't want to see at the time but dealing with it in an unhealthy manner) but then they require hours and hours of a trip sitters time (usually me because when I'm fried I don't mind at all, it's interesting to me).  Anyway my point is they realistically would've had to think about losing octopi from frightened outbursts/confusion/unprovoked aggression and (obviously) no way to talk them down lol.


Idk I'm just fucking spewing words, I think this is pretty damn cool as long as they're being very careful with their dosing procedures, this molecule, along with many others, can vastly improve or even save a LOT of lives. Go get em Rollapus!


--------------------
"The edge, there is no honest way to explain it, because the only ones who know where it is are the ones who have gone over." Dr. HST, the true king of fun - RIP

Federal Bureau of Keeping Juice
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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: PNW FunGuy]
    #25482152 - 09/23/18 02:00 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

I bet if mdma works on octopi, so do benzos


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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Offlinescifipirate
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Coolwhip GA]
    #25484120 - 09/23/18 09:48 PM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fluffhead25 said:
That's not science. That's bullshit.



Sure, let's disregard published scientific findings, for a 5 word response from a poster with 38 posts...
Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Pretty cruel giving Octopuses this toxic drug without their consent.



Yes every drug is TOXIC until proven otherwise
Quote:

Coolwhip GA said:
No doubt octopi are intelligent, but whether they are conscious or sentient is a little harder to determine. Social behavior doesn't necessarily require it to be so.

What is really interesting about octopi is over 2/3 of their total neuron count aren't located in their heads at all, let alone a central brain, it's as if each tentacle has it's own brain worth of neurons.

Octopi can do some amazing things under observation, such as using tools and manipulating their physical environment, which make them appear genius, but that is probably more us projecting onto them. Octopi have 500,000,000 neurons, less than 1/3 located in their heads, of that 1/3 about half are found concentrated around its optic lobes. A human has 21,000,000,000 in our cerebral cortex alone(over 80 billion total).

For comparison, a cat has 760,000,000 of which 300 million are found in the cerebral cortex, pigs and raccoons have about ~450 million in their cerebral cortex.

An African Elephant has 257 Billion, almost 3x as many as a human, but just under 6 billion are found in the cerebral cortex(1/3 as many as a human) BUT a long finned pilot whale(a large dolphin species) has over 37 billion neurons in its cerebral cortex, more than TWICE as many as a human.



^Awesome post^

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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Morel Guy]
    #25487082 - 09/25/18 02:17 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
Social lessons can be very severe.  What creatures do for fun. 

Suppose mdma is like captivity.  Speeds up urgancy.  Slowing down some other features.

Imtend to believe that in all creatures we can self sooth.  Dreams can be ecstasy.  It's hard to slow down enough and fill in the blanks.  So much of a brain is space.  It's always thinking with death and life.




If what you say there goes, then LSD should also not be good.
For LSD also gives almost Manic like episodes. Speed freak. Thoughto rollercoaster.

Is that really what we want?

Time for Church.

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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: lessismore]
    #25487103 - 09/25/18 02:40 AM (5 years, 6 months ago)

LSD is very different from MDMA, although honestly I don't think LSD is good either. The only synthetic "psychedelic" I would recommend taking is GHB.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Peyote Road]
    #25487114 - 09/25/18 03:01 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

ghb is a hell of a good sleep. GBL too, but best save the tummy some stress and do a hydrolysis

but seriously, 2 little milliliters of gbl, for me im just sinking into the mattress. every muscle is at ease. no wonder its so addictive

1ml is a good substitute for alcohol. safer too, esp with sodium G

its nowhere near being a psychedelic. the "synthetic psychedelic" they should use is 4aco


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Fractal420]
    #25487541 - 09/25/18 08:57 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

@ The ones talking about testing on animals is harm

http://www.sharkonline.org/index.php/about-shark/i-was-a-fish-killer

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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Fractal420]
    #25488571 - 09/25/18 04:20 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Fractal420 said:
ghb is a hell of a good sleep. GBL too, but best save the tummy some stress and do a hydrolysis

but seriously, 2 little milliliters of gbl, for me im just sinking into the mattress. every muscle is at ease. no wonder its so addictive

1ml is a good substitute for alcohol. safer too, esp with sodium G

its nowhere near being a psychedelic. the "synthetic psychedelic" they should use is 4aco




Well I meant psychedelic in the broader sense, that's why I put it in quotations. For example some people consider ketamine a psychedelic, even though the effects are nothing like LSD or mushrooms. It just depends on the definition of psychedelic you are using. I consider ketamine and GHB to be very psychedelic in terms of being drugs which have the potential to expand the mind and bring insight.

GHB to me feels like a dissociative, but without the wacky effects of ketamine, which to me makes it even more valuable. It allowed me to detach from my every day consciousness, but remain calm. It's incredibly good for meditation.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Peyote Road]
    #25489629 - 09/26/18 03:39 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Calm - for sure. Lol.

Cant think of anything more calm really.

Personally, btw, id just say "psychoactive" but hey whatever, words are words

I meant because 4aco is just a few atoms away from psilocin


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
Strange R
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Fractal420]
    #25492838 - 09/27/18 11:22 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Seal slaps man with octopus
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/downtime/seal-slaps-man-with-octopus/vi-AAAGM5T?ocid=mailsignout

At first I thought it was the singer, and then I thought, was it an MDMA octopus, lol.


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OfflineCoolwhip GA
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Registered: 03/19/09
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Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Peyote Road]
    #25494933 - 09/28/18 05:56 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

GHB is not synthetic, it is an endogenous neurotransmitter.

And it is neither psychedelic nor dissociative, as used it is a straight up depressant with rebound stimulant effects and some stimulant effects at low doses(due to its affinity for both he GABAb and GHB receptor and the complicated nature of the GHB receptor which is normally an excitatory receptor as endogenous levels of GHB cause glutamate release),

It may relax you, but it's your meditation which brings on anything resembling insight or dissociation from your mind.(though generally dissociation is used to describe leaving your body, not your mind)

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Coolwhip GA]
    #25495957 - 09/28/18 02:34 PM (5 years, 5 months ago)

Ghb is in wine. Or so i hear

G being a stimulant? Whats weird is i knew one person who has some personality disorders, to them it was like an amphetamine, but i was so confused. Otherwise ive never experienced much in the way of stimulation. However, if i knock out on G, i wake up in a sort of startled and energetic way after about 4-5 hrs everytime. So i guess that makes sense.

This is referring to gbl really but, its a prodrug. Supposedly 1ml= 1.4g


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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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OfflineMrMoon
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Re: Scientists Gave MDMA to Octopuses—and What Happened Was Profound [Re: Fractal420]
    #25500014 - 09/30/18 07:39 AM (5 years, 5 months ago)

a dog ate my poop one time after I took some mdma and started roling and twitching on the floor with its tongue out so I'm a bit of a scientists myself.


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Bring your love baby Imma bring my Shame Bring the drugs baby Imma bring my pain


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