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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains)
    #25472083 - 09/19/18 08:36 AM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Hello Shroomery!



I'm writing up this Tek because I love working with Rye, but some of the methods I had been using were tedious and seemed to overhandle the grains unnecessarily. I've eliminated a couple steps and added some tools I use to shorten the process as well as explain "the why" behind I keep some steps while eliminating others. This write up is noob friendly so seasoned growers please be patient as I may overstate what's obvious to some. This write up is to prepare 10 quarts of rye (to fill a 23qt Presto) but can easily be scaled down.


What you will need:

*A Bread Rack



These can be "borrowed" from behind most grocery stores and bakeries. They're used to stack loaves of bread without crushing them and also very useful for several organisational purposes in my grows.


*Plastic/Nylon Window Screening

*Chip Clips/Clothes Pins

*Large Pot

*Pressure Cooker

*10 Quart jars of your choosing

*12 cups Rye Berry Grain

*Gypsum

*Tap Water

The Grain

Many Teks use 1 cup of rye per quart of spawn but I like my jars 80-85% full so I use 12 cups for 10 quarts or 6 cups for 5. This still provides room for shaking later while using up a little more jar real estate.

The Rinse




Prepare your Bread Tray by laying it over a large sink and use Chip Clips Or clothes pins to secure the screening on the edges. If you don't have an awesome large sink like I do you can also do this outside over a couple 5 gallon buckets and a garden hose.




Fill your large pot with 12 cups Rye, then dump it in the screened tray. Give it a good 5-10 minute rinse, spreading out the grains to thoroughly rinse out any dust particles. Nice, clean, uniform grain prevents clumping in the jars and makes it easier to spot abnormalities like bacterial growth. This is one reason I prefer Rye over other grains like WBS. EVERYTHING looks uniform in the jar. If there's anything funky going on in a jar it's easy to spot.


Once you're done rinsing you can pick up the screen and Grain like a big ol' bag and dump it all in your large pot for the soak.




The Soak




I used to do my soak in individual quart jars simply because that's what I had read in Teks since I started cultivating. After doing it a few times I noticed  there's much more handling of the grains and materials than seems necessary  and decided this step is redundant.

Dump it in a pot, soak it, boil it, dump it out, dry it.:shrug:


I add a couple tablespoons of Gypsum at this point. Some would argue that Gypsum is unnecessary for grains and substrates, but it does assist with clumping.  It also PH balances and adds simple nutrients to the sub when spawning to bulk. I see no reason to skip this simple step.




Fill your large pot of Rye with HOT tap water, (at least a few inches over the Rye), cover and let soak for 24 hours.




DO NOT cheat on this step. The 24 hour soak is not only to pre-hydrate your Rye to prevent bursting on the boil, but also to germinate Endospores.


Edwin the Endospore: "Hey bro thanks for the germination! Is that so I can develop into Bacteria?"

Grimsweeper: "Nah Edwin it's so I can fry your bacterial ass in the PC cycle. Buh Bye."

Endospores are tough. "The most practical method for eliminating bacterial endospores involves soaking the grain at room temperature 24 hours prior to sterilization. Endospores, if viable, will germinate within that time frame and then be susceptible to standard sterilization procedures."


I no longer soak for 24 hours, 4-8 hours is enough to hydrate your grains and endospores can be dispatched in the PC if you run it long enough. I now do PC cycles for no less than 2 hours and as long as 4 for all grains.

The Boil




Bring your soaked Rye to the stovetop and bring to a rolling boil. You may need to add some water as much of it will have been soaked up into the grain. Once boiling start a 10 minute timer and immediately remove from heat at 10 minutes. Periodically checking your Rye for any bursting.

There have been times where I've been unable to get to the boil cycle at the 24 hour mark and soaked as long as 36 hours. Everything still looked good but I reduced my boil time to 5-6 min. The intention is to make your Rye "Al Dente" without bursting the Grain. Periodically I pull a grain out and squeeze it in my fingers to check it's tenderness.

Pro Tip!




Reserve some of your grain boil water for Liquid Culture!
I freeze some of mine in pint twist locks for easy defrost when I want to make up a LC. My usual recipe is 1 part grain water to 4-5 parts tap water (eyeballed), then PC for 60 minutes.








3 Days later...


Ok so I ate a bunch of shrooms and couldn't write for a while so here we are again..

:vibin::vibin::vibin:

Back to business..

The Dry




Dump all of your grains into your breadscreenthingamajiggy. If I don't notice any burst grains sometimes I'll leave them in a pile to continue steam cooking for another 10 minutes or so. Otherwise, I'll level them out to start drying.




The intent is to dry the exterior of your Rye while keeping the interior hydrated. After a few minutes (so you don't boil the skin off your fingers), periodically rake your fingers through and turn the grains to expose new (wet) surface area to open air. Your grain is dry enough when you pick up a handful, drop it and it no longer sticks to your hand. I can usually get to that point in about 30 minutes using this method. Feel free to snack on a few while you're raking them around but don't eat to much or you'll screw up your spawn ratio. :tongue:

Jar them up!



As you can see those extra 2 cups of rye didn't fill my jars too high to shake later.

You have many options for jars and lids - I've done them all. Lately I've reverted back to glass jars mostly because they're easiest to clean and last forever if you don't carry them around while drunk. Oops! I also use modified SFD lids similar to how hamloaf makes them.

If you're using lids like mine, close them firmly and cover with foil with the foil matching the curvature of the lid and jar as best you can.



I've found the cheapest foil I can find works well for this and save my heavy duty foil for making prints.

The PC Cycle



If you're filling all the space in the bottom of the PC (in this case 7 jars on the bottom) you only need an inch or two of water. The jars will displace the water and take it up 4-5 inches. Too much water and you risk it entering your grain that you worked so hard to dry.



7 in the bottom, 3 on top
(Like your Mom)




A 23 qt Presto will hold 10 qt jars fairly snug. Wide mouth jars tend to be a little shorter so I put those on the bottom and standard jars on top for a little more leg room.

Crank that bitch up to 11 and leave your weight off until you can see steam escaping from the vent. Some say 10 minutes after visible steam. This step ensures even, adequate temperature throughout the PC cycle.
Replace your weight, and if you hate the rattling sound like I do you can tape 3 quarters on top of it. At 15 PSI this reduces noise to almost silent and you'll steam off less water. With my stove set between 2.5-3 the pressure hovers at 16-18 PSI.

PC at 15 PSI for a minimum of 120 minutes and leave it until the outside of your PC is cool to the touch. Some would say 90 minutes but I say it's not always enough. Another 30 minutes or so is worth ensuring sterile grains.

Remove and inoculate in the style of your choosing.
Don't forget to bring the Bread Rack back to the bakery you thieving bastard.


Happy Shrooming!


Disclaimer:


I did not invent Rye prep. Much of what you've read is a culmination of Teks I've used and I may have blatantly plagiarized others from reading them many times. Thank you to those that have unknowingly contributed to my knowledge.


Edited by Grimsweeper (10/31/18 04:54 PM)


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #25472170 - 09/19/18 09:30 AM (7 months, 29 days ago)

This is an OK TEK, but some details are off.

First, I do like the makeshift bag thingy.

IDK where you saw that people soak in the jars but that's not really a thing.

Jars 80-85% full are gonna be a cunt to shake. And forget G2G. We do them half full on purpose.

Soaking does nothing for endospores. While some are germinating, the other bacteria is flourishing, leaving more endospores. Soaking is to soften the hull of the grain to allow more hydration without bursting.

A 10 minute boil is just a guideline. The same way a box of pasta gives a timeline. Just check for bursting kernels.

There's no reason to buy extra foil. The heavy duty stuff is reusable if you're that cheap.

Water level in the PC should be what the instructions say. Don't worry how far it comes up the jar. It doesn't get in the jar.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Robert Hunter said:
Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #25472207 - 09/19/18 09:58 AM (7 months, 29 days ago)

First, I do like the makeshift bag thingy.
Thank you

IDK where you saw that people soak in the jars but that's not really a thing.
It is here in Teks that I have followed that will remain nameless because I won't flame on people that have got me where I am.

Jars 80-85% full are gonna be a cunt to shake. And forget G2G. We do them half full on purpose.
I agree in part. I wouldn't recommend 80-85% if you plan on FILLING THEM MORE with G2G. (I) fill them 80-85% on purpose. specifically not for G2G.
I have no trouble shaking them that full but I jack off a lot
.:shrug:

Soaking does nothing for endospores. While some are germinating, the other bacteria is flourishing, leaving more endospores. Soaking is to soften the hull of the grain to allow more hydration without bursting.
As I wrote in the Tek we agree on hydration. The endspores germinating I'm quoting RR. As far as I know he hasn't changed his view on this but I could be wrong.

A 10 minute boil is just a guideline. The same way a box of pasta gives a timeline. Just check for bursting kernels.
I think that's what I said

There's no reason to buy extra foil. The heavy duty stuff is reusable if you're that cheap.
It's not extra it's using different foil for different purposes. Like play shoes and school shoes. (Thanks Mom)


--------------------
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Grimsweeper's not so simple AF All in One Vend-O-Matic Grow Chamber 5000
Grim's Groovy GrimGrains
ShroomCubes
Build yourself a Flow Hood in these 99 simple steps


Edited by Grimsweeper (09/19/18 10:35 AM)


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OfflineMushMcdiddle
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #25472449 - 09/19/18 12:31 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Thank you for this detailed instruction, long time lurker here.
I’ve been doing brf cakes and plan to do bulk in the near future. Do you use “organic” rye berries? Does it matter?


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Offlinefishermansjc
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: MushMcdiddle]
    #25472502 - 09/19/18 01:17 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Doesn't matter, get the cheap stuff from the feed store I get 50 lbs for 12-15$.

Might have more rocks and sticks and beans/corn, but its all good if you rinse well.

Nice job grim.

I'm with you on the filling more than others, I measure 1.25-1.4 cups of grain per quart.
I sometimes deal with actual quarts and not myco quarts for my calculations, so having the extra grain helps. Worst case, fill a 1/2 pint with the extra.


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OfflineMushMcdiddle
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: fishermansjc]
    #25472575 - 09/19/18 01:49 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Thank you fishermansjc


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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: MushMcdiddle]
    #25472769 - 09/19/18 03:03 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

I need a plastic bread rack in my life


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: JHOVA]
    #25472799 - 09/19/18 03:14 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Thanks fishermansjc that means a lot coming from you.

MushMcdiddle - I keep buying the same brand over again they may be same as fishermansjc. About the same price on Amazon. They're not labeled as organic and as he said it doesn't matter as long as you rinse well.

JHOVA - Hide in the shadows and move swift like a ninja. Get ya a couple milk crates while you're back there to store myco supplies.


--------------------
When you clean a vacuum cleaner, you are a vacuum cleaner.
                                     

Grimsweeper's not so simple AF All in One Vend-O-Matic Grow Chamber 5000
Grim's Groovy GrimGrains
ShroomCubes
Build yourself a Flow Hood in these 99 simple steps


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Offlinefishermansjc
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #25472805 - 09/19/18 03:19 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Grimsweeper said:

MushMcdiddle - I keep buying the same brand over again they may be same as fishermansjc. About the same price on Amazon. They're not labeled as organic and as he said it doesn't matter as long as you rinse well.




If possible ask the feed store or the company that sells them if they use fungicides.
As far as I am aware, fungicides usually work by inhibiting spore germination and should have no effect if you're putting germinated mycelium to the grains (agar, LC, G2G); however, fungicide treated grains would be a poor choice for spore to grain.

The feed store I get my rye from called the company and they don't use it.


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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: fishermansjc]
    #25472845 - 09/19/18 03:37 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Do you stir the grains during the 10 minute boil? Or do you just turn the stove on and let them do their thing? Last time I prepped rye I stirred the grains, and I think I noticed more burst grains than usual, could just be a coincidence tho.


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: flyhighfunguy]
    #25472902 - 09/19/18 04:01 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

flyhighfunguy said:
Do you stir the grains during the 10 minute boil? Or do you just turn the stove on and let them do their thing? Last time I prepped rye I stirred the grains, and I think I noticed more burst grains than usual, could just be a coincidence tho.



I used to because I thought they might get stuck to the bottom and burn but since I stopped stirring them I haven't seen that happen. I also thought stirring might burst them and stopped for the same reason. I'm also gentle when handling them during drying and scooping into jars.


--------------------
When you clean a vacuum cleaner, you are a vacuum cleaner.
                                     

Grimsweeper's not so simple AF All in One Vend-O-Matic Grow Chamber 5000
Grim's Groovy GrimGrains
ShroomCubes
Build yourself a Flow Hood in these 99 simple steps


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Offlinespace_shrooms

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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #25473069 - 09/19/18 05:43 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Nice tek dude:thumbup:

Rye rules.

I do it all pretty much like you except I just wash them in the pot and pour water on and off them like when i’m cooking rice or any grain really. As per the RR tek sometimes I just soak for 4hrs (if i’m in a rush) and cook them longer. The key is obviously to cook them fully. Soaking for 24hrs is the sweet spot for me as they are perfect just when the water comes to a boil (and therefore steams off efficiently).

Dunno about the endospore theory. I have not noticed a difference between a short and long soak. PCing for 120mins rather than 90 will make a more significant difference IMO.


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: space_shrooms]
    #25473128 - 09/19/18 06:11 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

aicaca said:
Nice tek dude:thumbup:

Rye rules.

I do it all pretty much like you except I just wash them in the pot and pour water on and off them like when i’m cooking rice or any grain really. As per the RR tek sometimes I just soak for 4hrs (if i’m in a rush) and cook them longer. The key is obviously to cook them fully. Soaking for 24hrs is the sweet spot for me as they are perfect just when the water comes to a boil (and therefore steams off efficiently).

Dunno about the endospore theory. I have not noticed a difference between a short and long soak. PCing for 120mins rather than 90 will make a more significant difference IMO.



I used to do shorter soaks, basically when it was convenient for me to boil and when they appeared fully hydrated but then I had a run of bacterial jars. So I started reevaluating my steps to see what could be going wrong. It was then that I learned about germinating endospores so they're more vulnerable in the PC cycle. Haven't had a bacterial jar since I've been doing a full 24 hours and up to 36. Doesn't mean anything less is a guaranteed fail. I've had success with less. I kinda like spacing out my grain prep/pc anyway. My wife likes me in and out of the kitchen in small bursts.

I still like spacing out my cycles but I think a longer PC cycle outweighs a longer soak.


--------------------
When you clean a vacuum cleaner, you are a vacuum cleaner.
                                     

Grimsweeper's not so simple AF All in One Vend-O-Matic Grow Chamber 5000
Grim's Groovy GrimGrains
ShroomCubes
Build yourself a Flow Hood in these 99 simple steps


Edited by Grimsweeper (10/30/18 10:56 PM)


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Offlinefishermansjc
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #25473146 - 09/19/18 06:19 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

For what it is worth, I don’t soak my seeds anymore. I do it more like the hamloaf tek.

I do PC for 2.5 hours instead of 1.5 though


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: fishermansjc]
    #25473175 - 09/19/18 06:32 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Ive seen his too. Might give it a go sometime.


--------------------
When you clean a vacuum cleaner, you are a vacuum cleaner.
                                     

Grimsweeper's not so simple AF All in One Vend-O-Matic Grow Chamber 5000
Grim's Groovy GrimGrains
ShroomCubes
Build yourself a Flow Hood in these 99 simple steps


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OfflineMushMcdiddle
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #25473326 - 09/19/18 07:47 PM (7 months, 29 days ago)

Just noticed “Like your Mom” :grin:


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: MushMcdiddle]
    #25474448 - 09/20/18 07:38 AM (7 months, 28 days ago)

Quote:

MushMcdiddle said:
Just noticed “Like your Mom” :grin:



:saulgoodman:


--------------------
When you clean a vacuum cleaner, you are a vacuum cleaner.
                                     

Grimsweeper's not so simple AF All in One Vend-O-Matic Grow Chamber 5000
Grim's Groovy GrimGrains
ShroomCubes
Build yourself a Flow Hood in these 99 simple steps


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #25579852 - 10/30/18 10:53 PM (6 months, 18 days ago)

Bumping this post because it's a good method for rye but I've edited it from what I've learned since writing it. I've had much success in my original post but I now believe the edited version is more reliable.


--------------------
When you clean a vacuum cleaner, you are a vacuum cleaner.
                                     

Grimsweeper's not so simple AF All in One Vend-O-Matic Grow Chamber 5000
Grim's Groovy GrimGrains
ShroomCubes
Build yourself a Flow Hood in these 99 simple steps


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OfflineTheUltimateBohab
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #25595852 - 11/06/18 12:49 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

I'm going to use just metal jar lids I read on here that you can just flip them over and not modify them any reasons why that would not be a good idea?


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Grim's Groovy Rye Grain Tek (AKA GrimGrains) [Re: TheUltimateBohab]
    #25595940 - 11/06/18 01:26 PM (6 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

TheUltimateBohab said:
I'm going to use just metal jar lids I read on here that you can just flip them over and not modify them any reasons why that would not be a good idea?




Lots of reasons, yeah. Use a filter. Nobody's doing extra shit for no reason.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Robert Hunter said:
Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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