Home | Community | Message Board


Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Edibles   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Cultivation Supplies, Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Kratom Powder for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Microscope

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Offlinesuburban145
Das unbekannte


Registered: 03/28/17
Posts: 18
Loc: Mountains
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Questions about mycotoxins
    #25467997 - 09/17/18 08:50 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Hey guys, please help me out with this.

I have been doing research but really haven't found a clear answer to my questions. My biggest fear with shrooms is mycotoxins, as such I have a couple questions.


Should I really be concerned about mycotoxins if there is no indication of contamination on my cakes or substrate?

If there is a contamination on my substrate, is it sill safe to eat the mushrooms if nothing is actually growing on the shroom?

Are mycotoxins only produced by mold fungi, not mushroom fungi?

Will shrooms contain or produce any mycotoxins like certain grains do even if there are no signs on the shrooms itself such as mold or jelly like substance?

Is psilocybin/psylocin not a mycotoxin? If it is, how can that be safe to consume without fear of mycotoxin build up in the body that can lead to diseases?


I'm fairly new to cultivation and I just want to get my facts straight so I'm not thinking about these things during a trip and start freaking out.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFuturepastnpresent
Stranger


Registered: 08/13/18
Posts: 488
Loc: Your mommas house Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 10 days
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: suburban145]
    #25468006 - 09/17/18 08:55 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Just wanna follow


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinemushboyM
99.99% filtration
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 25,148
Loc: better trashcan
Last seen: 26 minutes, 47 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: Futurepastnpresent]
    #25468034 - 09/17/18 09:10 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I've eaten pounds of shrooms over many years. No toxic issues besides people in my life. What 'mycotoxians' would you be referring too?

I think you are scared of an imaginary myco boogyman.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinesuburban145
Das unbekannte


Registered: 03/28/17
Posts: 18
Loc: Mountains
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: mushboy]
    #25472290 - 09/19/18 10:53 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Actually d00d the fact that you seemingly don't know much about mycotoxins proves that you're not as well versed in mycology as you think. Mycotoxins are toxic byproducts produced by fungi that build up in the body through ingestion of said fungi which can and do lead to major diseases. Black mold, trich, etc. are examples of mycotoxin producing fungi.  So like my question asks, since shrooms are fungi and certain scientists classify psilocybin as a mycotoxin, is the potential there that they could cause disease. OR is psilocybin mearly classified as a mycotoxin because of the hallucinogenic properties, not because it can cause diseases?


Edited by suburban145 (09/19/18 10:57 AM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinemushboyM
99.99% filtration
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 25,148
Loc: better trashcan
Last seen: 26 minutes, 47 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: suburban145] * 1
    #25472301 - 09/19/18 10:58 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Actually....  I am poorly versed in mycology. And poorly versed in general but that doesn't matter.

Trich is a pathogen of mycelium but does that mean it is a mycotoxin? It's not 'produced' by mushroom myc:shrug:

And I'm almost positive but mushrooms do not intake/uptake chemicals like plants do. The DEA can classify it all it wants. 1000s of years of human experience says otherwise.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinegizmodo
Woodland Creature
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/21/18
Posts: 2,064
Loc: Behind You
Last seen: 6 days, 6 hours
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: mushboy]
    #25472307 - 09/19/18 11:03 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I would be more concerned about sugar than "mycotoxins".
If a mushroom is not neurotoxic and its generally accepted as safe to eat, its safe.
Unless the soil is contaminated and the species is known to concentrate those contaminates like lead or similar.


--------------------

One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth.

Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource
Gizmodo's Market Stall
Say No To Grow Kits


Edited by gizmodo (09/20/18 10:13 AM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: suburban145] * 1
    #25472317 - 09/19/18 11:10 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Its not a mycotoxin at all. It's just a chemical substance found inside of fruit bodies. Look at the 50+ drugs found in reishi. Those aren't mycotoxins. Psilocin and psilocybin are both just harmless drugs. In fact I don't think there's a single higher fungi that produces mycotoxins.

Now what is a mycotoxin? Its a secondary metabolic byproduct. This means it is likely used to aid molds in both defense, as well as digestion. Common mycotoxin producing molds are fusarium, aspergillus, and yes even certain species of trich. Mycotoxins are almost completely harmless when ingested. It's generally inhalation that causes issues. Now that being said, I've handled all these molds before. They only cause issues when you have a compromised immune system or you're hella old. Going for a walk through a forest would probably expose you to the same amount of mycotoxins. So, no. Don't worry about mycotoxins and higher fungi.

Also another question is will molds with mycotoxins that have been colonized go into fruit bodies? No. Mushrooms would easily filter that shit out. The only thing I'd worry about mushrooms taking in is heavy metals. Not much else.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinemushboyM
99.99% filtration
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 25,148
Loc: better trashcan
Last seen: 26 minutes, 47 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: Mad Season] * 1
    #25472324 - 09/19/18 11:15 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

:takingnotes:


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSolipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,343
Loc: the Neitherlands Flag
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: mushboy]
    #25472810 - 09/19/18 03:20 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldn't downplay the toxicity of mycotoxins too much, but that would really apply to ingesting the intact mycotoxins from alive or dead mold tissue which wouldn't just happen so easily accidentally under normal circumstances.

It's simple: just don't eat infected mushrooms, you can relatively easily learn the signs that something is seriously wrong with your grow or your harvested fruit.. And even without trying i think you would need to be a bit of a moron to miss a considerable contamination right on your fruit.

So: don't worry about accidentally ingesting these mycotoxins but other than that in general just don't eat stuff that is moldy, like bread molds can be pretty bad. Mycotoxins can pose a threat to your acute and chronic health but it would be rare to get truly fucked up / die from it like botulism (which yes i know is not a mycotoxin but from a bacterium). Still it is exaggerated to act like unless you are weak or old you can just eat random molds and not get problems due to the toxins (not to mention infection etc). They can harm your internal organs or potentially cause cancer among other things. But it does also depend on the species and the concentration so a bit of luck.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: mushboy]
    #25473076 - 09/19/18 05:46 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Actually....  I am poorly versed in mycology. And poorly versed in general but that doesn't matter.

Trich is a pathogen of mycelium but does that mean it is a mycotoxin? It's not 'produced' by mushroom myc:shrug:

And I'm almost positive but mushrooms do not intake/uptake chemicals like plants do. The DEA can classify it all it wants. 1000s of years of human experience says otherwise.




silly thing to say without knowledge, mushrooms do certainly uptake and accumulate natural toxins, especially heavy metals, i cringe any time people place cakes on foil for this exact reason.

mushrooms have been proved to digest and accumilate aluminium and aluminium deposits in the human body in particular the brain have been linked to dementia and Alzheimer's among other things

look up myco remediation,
they are used to clear land of toxic chmicals and also to rid radioactive substances from the enviroment and chernobyl is a prime exmaple of fungi absorbing toxins from the enviroment.

never mind the risks of growing them in a contained indoor enviroment, go lookk up what systemic psudemonas can do to a person, rare but its a very common thing in almost ALL casings, the list goes on, culturing and deveoping mushrooms in a sterile enviroment is a dangerous thing and poses many risks to life and some deadly thats why we instantly chuck and that are suspicious and never open a jar that is a risk.

u will only fuck up once and can scar u for life or even end ur life and if u think im joking u need research more the risk is very real

when u culture in sterile enviroments u give all sort the chance to take hold unhinderd and lots of them are pathogenic and toxic to all life

every time u make a monotub and create them conditions u also create the perfect conditions for lots of pathogens.

if ur not carefull u will get the bitches itch of random spots for the rest of ur life but if ur unlucky legionaires or some other deadly thing will rear its head, mycology shouldnt be taken lightly, culturing anything is a risk and sometimes u WILL culture something that poses a risk to life, thats the game and to pretend otherwise is a joke, i know its not often discussed but is a real concern in this hobby and plenty commercial gourmet mushroom growers have either been infected with a cultured fungi or affected by a bacterium as a direct result of their efforts

the risk is real but often over looked


--------------------



Edited by mustangbob3 (09/19/18 06:05 PM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblebodhisattaM
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 60,893
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: suburban145]
    #25473085 - 09/19/18 05:51 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Read the mycotoxin wiki article and if there is still more questions then ask.


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread
Buy Bod a beer:
BTC: 1G7roCpYmNp4VqnKySQeBkaFTc7JMzKLpL
ETH: 0x2091cE981af8129986C50AC0818e1aCA76076768
DOGE: DQNyGtUNHwYUrGECag1VRmMcf6QVeTY4V1


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinespace_shrooms

Registered: 05/04/17
Posts: 437
Last seen: 2 months, 4 days
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25473103 - 09/19/18 06:00 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

The foil I put under brf cakes does not get consumed by the mushrooms :shrug:

But maybe I have aluminium in my brain now and need research more


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: space_shrooms]
    #25473125 - 09/19/18 06:08 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

aicaca said:
The foil I put under brf cakes does not get consumed by the mushrooms :shrug:

But maybe I have aluminium in my brain now and need research more




it certainly does even if not evident, ur mycelium is taking in microscopic trace amounts of aluminium and ur body cant process it out, simple as, ur body stores it up, so if u keep on taking that route u are assuredly accumalating heavy metals that may pose a problem if they decide to settle in ur brain to which they have been proved to do

use foil trays and u will see them deteriorate over time, the mushrooms are slowly working it down and absorbing the metals. it might not be evident on one grow, its a hidden danger, but as each grow goes on ur slowly intaking more and more metals that ur body has no way of ridding


--------------------



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinemushboyM
99.99% filtration
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 25,148
Loc: better trashcan
Last seen: 26 minutes, 47 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25473142 - 09/19/18 06:18 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Read the mycotoxin wiki article




thats all i did:lol:

still sounds like boogiemanish to me tho:shrug: but i toss mold asap and im clean in general.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: mushboy]
    #25473152 - 09/19/18 06:24 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

its that very cleanliness that leads to the outbreak of such things, they are opportunists, look at mrsa and other hospital superbugs that rear their head precisely because of sterility of the enviroment.


--------------------



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKizzle
Misanthrope
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,460
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: mustangbob3]
    #25474131 - 09/20/18 01:31 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

it certainly does even if not evident, ur mycelium is taking in microscopic trace amounts of aluminium and ur body cant process it out, simple as, ur body stores it up, so if u keep on taking that route u are assuredly accumalating heavy metals that may pose a problem if they decide to settle in ur brain to which they have been proved to do




It depends on how it's ingested. The body only absorbs a tiny portion of the aluminum contained in the food you eat and what it does absorb can be easily removed by the kidneys in healthy individuals. It's very different than say, injecting an unnatural aluminum compound that your body doesn't know how to deal with, which is probably what you have been reading about.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineWing
The Eye Tyrant
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 3,293
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: Kizzle]
    #25474140 - 09/20/18 01:38 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Properly dry your mushrooms and don't worry.


--------------------
My Old Grow Logs



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: Kizzle]
    #25474822 - 09/20/18 11:15 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

it certainly does even if not evident, ur mycelium is taking in microscopic trace amounts of aluminium and ur body cant process it out, simple as, ur body stores it up, so if u keep on taking that route u are assuredly accumalating heavy metals that may pose a problem if they decide to settle in ur brain to which they have been proved to do




It depends on how it's ingested. The body only absorbs a tiny portion of the aluminum contained in the food you eat and what it does absorb can be easily removed by the kidneys in healthy individuals. It's very different than say, injecting an unnatural aluminum compound that your body doesn't know how to deal with, which is probably what you have been reading about.




tbh i think micro particles be uptaken directly from the portal vein and then processed by the liver( heavy metals cause chirrosis too) and uptaken by the lymphatic system and distributed around the body.


--------------------



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSolipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 3,343
Loc: the Neitherlands Flag
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
Re: Questions about mycotoxins [Re: mustangbob3]
    #25477023 - 09/21/18 06:22 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
its that very cleanliness that leads to the outbreak of such things, they are opportunists, look at mrsa and other hospital superbugs that rear their head precisely because of sterility of the enviroment.




That's a terrible argument. The fact that there may be niche opportunists which see their chance when you use agents to sterilize some but not all germs does not suggest that you shouldn't properly sterilize your equipment, it just says that there can always be exceptions.

Germs evolve with or without us and in any case faster than we do - it just goes a bit quicker when you use antibiotics.

MRSA is not toxic (in the sense that it produces compounds which themselves are toxic) but infectious and it's threat is in the resistance to typical antibiotics but that doesn't mean it can withstand pressure cooking for example (just to make a point, not because of practical comparisons which it doesn't seem there are any to begin with). Extremophiles do but that is another story altogether.
But anyway you can't really PC a hospital.

Cleanliness is still a good thing, whether it is in hospitals or myco labs.

As for aluminum etc: note that there is a big difference between elementary metals and ionic metals. In elementary form like we encounter actual iron etc the bioavailability tends to be really low: metals do not really dissolve in water although they can somewhat in an acidic environment (which unfortunately the stomach is).
But if already in ionic form it again depends on the solubility a lot which can be pretty complete or like in the case of oxides, damn low.

Bioaccumulation is a problem (although indeed it can be useful), but what is true for heavy metals may really not be true at all for organic compounds as they behave very differently in uptake and potential processing in plants or fungi.


Edited by Solipsis (09/21/18 06:24 AM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Edibles   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Cultivation Supplies, Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder, Kratom Powder for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Amazon ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Microscope

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* honeywater question aluminum_can 1,027 6 09/28/01 09:28 PM
by aluminum_can
* cakes, cases and other questions if i think of em aenima 1,825 6 08/02/01 05:20 AM
by aenima
* Question Giggly 555 4 07/30/01 11:53 PM
by Vitticeps
* cake ingredient question stoner 571 2 07/23/01 02:13 AM
by Anno
* random questions wind_song 760 2 07/27/01 08:45 PM
by Vitticeps
* Aluminum containers for rye/casing...problem effwun 1,197 4 06/11/05 02:29 PM
by ThumpaCap
* Aluminum Foil Question? PurpleD1001 648 4 01/04/03 10:54 AM
by dog
* I have some questions ---> Grains & Manure. Starter 1,611 3 05/17/03 04:29 PM
by Demiurge

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, FooMan, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, stonesun, wildernessjunkie, cronicr, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
580 topic views. 27 members, 181 guests and 54 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Mycohaus
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 13 queries.