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LoneLobo
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Registered: 04/14/16
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Vinegar Smell in Monotub
#25445291 - 09/08/18 02:40 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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So after a few successful PF Teks I decided to try my hand at a monotub bulk grow using the infamous bucket coir verm tek. I put my materials into colonization 9 days ago, wrapping up the monotub in a black plastic bag. Only later did I find out this was not necessary.
Today I opened the bag to take a look and was met with a smell like vinegar upon opening the bag. Knowing that smells are generally not good in this hobby, I did some research and most are suggesting it is bacterial infection. Some said the lack of air may have caused this and suggested giving a little air and seeing how it goes.
I'm growing penis envy and I know it takes longer than most. There are a couple signs of the mycelium coming up through the surface, but also a couple areas that look like cobweb mold. Mold or the continuation of the colonization? I'm not sure!
Any experiential advice would be greatly appreciated. Hope this isn't the end for this grow...
-------------------- "You are here for a reason. A purpose. You know this. You have always known."
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bishlap
Po Thead



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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25445377 - 09/08/18 03:16 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sour smell is usually bacteria and looking at your mycelium it looks very weak and your sub looks super dry.
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
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LoneLobo
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: bishlap]
#25445388 - 09/08/18 03:23 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Damn. Anything I can do to try and save this grow? I'm feeling like this is probably cobweb mold and it's grown throughout the substrate over the past 9 days and that it's probably done.
I'm going to let it continue to do its thing for a couple days and then I'll know for sure because the cobweb will expand very quickly from my experience. If it grows and appears to be normal mycelium and the smell goes away then maybe I'll be able to birth like normal?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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entheo_heathen
Unrepentant Heathen



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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25445397 - 09/08/18 03:27 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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if you "let it do it's thing," make sure its quarantined. away from your others. vinegar or sweet putrid smells are usually bacteria. I wont consider rethinking your sterile technique and try to trace it back to what may have caused it
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bishlap
Po Thead



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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25445403 - 09/08/18 03:30 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's mycelium it's just not very healthy.
I mean there's a very small chance you may get a mushroom or or 2 or most likely aborts if it's infected.
Honestly buddy I would just start working on the next batch, you could hold on to it to see if it gets worse but I wouldn't recommend it and if it is infected it will get worse and could cause future contamination issues.
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
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LoneLobo
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: bishlap]
#25445480 - 09/08/18 04:09 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Unfortunately all my eggs are currently in this one basket so while I don't have to worry about immediate cross contamination I also have nothing else going. I just knocked up some additional jars today.
I felt the substrate and it's still very moist. Plenty of condensation throughout.
Why do you say it's definitely mycelium and not cobweb?
I'm hoping that the smell was being caused by my wrapping and tying off a black garbage bag around the monotub and that after a couple days out of the bag it will spring back.
-------------------- "You are here for a reason. A purpose. You know this. You have always known."
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo] 2
#25445482 - 09/08/18 04:10 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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It won't spring back from the amount of contamination it took to make noticable vinegar smell
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bishlap
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: bodhisatta]
#25445563 - 09/08/18 04:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Bacteria spreads fast. Is should smell like straight mushrooms with a hint of Coco.
Next time you do a mono don't use pf tek. I suggest you inoculate some grain if you want to do a mono. Some people get good results with pf to coco but overall I see more people having issues, especially newer people.
Grain has a Learning curve but once you get it you got it and then the fun begins.
Look in to agar it's very cheap and quite intuitive.
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
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LoneLobo
Stranger


Registered: 04/14/16
Posts: 145
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: bishlap]
#25445671 - 09/08/18 05:17 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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I actually spawned from rye berries to coir/verm. I followed the tek to the tee. Don't know what could've gone so wrong. My verm was straight out of the bag and wasn't processed at all first. Could this have caused an issue? I thought that the 4 hours in the bucket with boiling hot water and the brick of coir was enough to sterilize it. I did sweat a bit into the mix when I added the spawn and maybe my environment was not clean enough? The spawn was beautiful when I birthed them from the jars. Smelled fresh and mushroomy. I shouldve used 3 of them as cakes in my shotgun to split up the work...
Despite comments that it's unlikely to spring back, I'm still going to give it a couple days and see abs I'll pray for a miracle while I order more substrate and start some new cakes. Sigh. I guess it's a learning curve. I was sure looking forward to some penis envy.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25445705 - 09/08/18 05:35 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Every time ive had vinegar smell i never got a flush the tub would mold over with white mold but never made any colored spores. It may have been cube mycelium with ugly morphology too and i thought it was mold. But nonetheless never got fruits from the vinegar tubs.
Best of luck,
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bishlap
Po Thead



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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25445708 - 09/08/18 05:36 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wait you saying after 4 hours in the bucket you spawned grain in to it? Was the coco still hot?
A little sweat is fine I mix it with bare hands I just wash up to the elbow real good.
I usually wrap a blanket around the bucket and let it cook for at least 12 hours then if it's still warm you can just spread it out and cool it manually.
But more than likely you had a jar with bacteria in it. I suggest you start smelling everything, you can normally smell any contamination even if you can't see it. Bacteria has a sour smell and molds will often have earthy smells. Should smell like only mushrooms.
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
Posts: 14,357
Loc: ally known as ...
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#25445716 - 09/08/18 05:42 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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99.999% of contamination occurs from dirty spawn, either from dirty syringes, or improper sterile technique... with clean healthy spawn, you can scratch your ass and pick your nose when you mix to bulk... no way of avoiding the introduction of contaminants, and no chance for contaminant spores to germinate and grow to be an issue before your established culture takes everything... basically, if the spawn is clean, and the coir is field capacity, no worries, and no risk of contamination until the mycelium has run it's course
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entheo_heathen
Unrepentant Heathen



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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: Caps McGee]
#25445771 - 09/08/18 06:09 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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LoneLobo
Stranger


Registered: 04/14/16
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: bishlap]
#25445972 - 09/08/18 07:53 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bishlap said: Wait you saying after 4 hours in the bucket you spawned grain in to it? Was the coco still hot?
A little sweat is fine I mix it with bare hands I just wash up to the elbow real good.
I usually wrap a blanket around the bucket and let it cook for at least 12 hours then if it's still warm you can just spread it out and cool it manually.
But more than likely you had a jar with bacteria in it. I suggest you start smelling everything, you can normally smell any contamination even if you can't see it. Bacteria has a sour smell and molds will often have earthy smells. Should smell like only mushrooms.
It was probably 6 hours after mixing the coir, verm and boiling water that I added the spawn. I checked the temperature and didn't do it until it was at about 85 degrees. The six jars looked and smelled perfect, the same as any brf cake I've birthed. I thought everything looked perfect to be honest. Perhaps the tub wasn't clean enough? Or I created an environment where some foreign contaminant could grow by wrapping in the garbage bag and leaving in my 85 degree room for 8 days?
Very disappointing. I want to figure out what I did wrong so it doesn't happen again.
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LoneLobo
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25445978 - 09/08/18 07:57 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Poster by the name of The Scientist said this...
i have found that cakes that have a lot of built of metabolic waste smell similar to vinegar or ammonia. dunk your cakes and the water will turn yellowish, this is the cake excreting mushroom piss. there shouldnt be too much waste after 10 days unless they are in a very warm location. otherwise it could be a contam good luck
A few of the jars definitely has a good amount of yellowish liquid inside when I birthed them. I'd always thought that the yellow liquid was a sign of healthy mycelium ready to be birthed. I'm hoping that this might be what's happened to my monotub and maybe with a couple days and some fae it'll run its course? Being very hopeful here.
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo] 1
#25446143 - 09/08/18 09:19 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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I want to break something every time I read "myc piss". 
Metabolites are a sign of distressed mycelium in cubes
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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LoneLobo
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: Wing]
#25446458 - 09/09/18 12:24 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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The coco coir I used was from Home Depot and I found it in the gardening section. I just read somewhere it should be from a pet store for lizards. Would this be a problem?
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bishlap
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25446462 - 09/09/18 12:35 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, almost 100% chance you had a contaminated jar or maybe you had some uncolonized grains possibly. But my money is on a bad jar getting by.
I think pet stores are suggested because it's a easy way for anyone to access it.
I have used 20lb blocks ment for landscaping and it worked just fine.
-------------------- "If you're not worried that you took way
to much, you didn't take enough" -
Terrence McKenna
There is no soul, only the ego dies.
The body was never yours.
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Bumholio
What's the craic



Registered: 07/23/18
Posts: 4,269
Loc: Shroomsville
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25446467 - 09/09/18 12:37 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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No, it doesn't matter if it's "lizard" or "plant"* coir. It doesn't sound like the coir is yer prablem here chum
*check the info if it's plant coir. Some contain trichoderma as it's beneficial for some plants roots. It can still be used but requires proper pasteurization or sterilization.
--------------------

"great things may come to those who wait, but only what's left by those who hustle"
Edited by Bumholio (11/21/18 08:06 AM)
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LoneLobo
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: Bumholio]
#25446479 - 09/09/18 12:45 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes you may be right. I definitely remember seeing yellow liquid in a couple of the jars and now that I'm recalling, I felt they were ready at least a week before I birthed them but kept putting it off because of this or that, which I'm understanding can be a way to allow them to become contaminated. Blerg!
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: LoneLobo]
#25446480 - 09/09/18 12:47 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Contaminants causes contamination. Not time.
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: bodhisatta]
#25447487 - 09/09/18 11:20 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Contaminants causes contamination. Not time.
it was screwed anyway...
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seifer699

Registered: 06/18/17
Posts: 65
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: Caps McGee]
#25451055 - 09/10/18 09:46 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cobweb might have been in the area you are growing or introduced into it somehow. You should have tried to spray hydrogen peroxide in the early stages.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,915
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: seifer699]
#25451063 - 09/10/18 09:49 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
seifer699 said: Cobweb might have been in the area you are growing or introduced into it somehow. You should have tried to spray hydrogen peroxide in the early stages.
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infinityblue
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: bodhisatta]
#25629335 - 11/21/18 07:06 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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hey Bodhi, sorry to bump this (and apologies to LoneLobo for hijacking), but I have the exact same situation. brf cakes spawned with coir in to unmodified minimono 5 days ago and smelling vinegar.

this is my first grow, and as far as I uderstood from all the info above my only option is to get rid of this tub, right?
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Guy on a buffalo
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Idk tub looks fine to me. 
Are you sure you aren't smelling coir?
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infinityblue
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the tub lid was closed for 5 days, maybe it just coir+humidity+CO2 and I am overreacting? opened the lid yesterday and it smells much better today, but still not mushroomy smell as from the cakes... still a bit sweet and sour.
mycelium looks healthy
 will keep an eye on and hope there is no contamination.
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2in1
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I'm not 100% sure but that does look kind of like very healthy cobweb mould. Give it a go but like others have said anything that smells sour doesn't usually work out. Sorry
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infinityblue
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: 2in1]
#25632326 - 11/22/18 11:22 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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thank you for your input 2in1, will check in contamination forum
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


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That tub is trash.
-------------------- Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.
bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.
These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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infinityblue
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: 36fuckin5]
#25632352 - 11/22/18 11:35 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: That tub is trash.
thanks for the info, lesson learned!
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Caps McGee
Grandaddy Smurfshack



Registered: 10/28/17
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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: 36fuckin5]
#25632915 - 11/22/18 04:55 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: That tub is trash.
Sadly... I second this evaluation... don't waste anymore time or resources on it, get some fresh agar work going
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infinityblue
Stranger

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Re: Vinegar Smell in Monotub [Re: Caps McGee]
#25634015 - 11/23/18 09:19 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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thank you Caps for confirmatiion, the tube is tossed away. and yeah, everything that happens is an opportunity for learning - time to learn aQuote:
Caps McGee said:
Quote:
36fuckin5 said: That tub is trash.
Sadly... I second this evaluation... don't waste anymore time or resources on it, get some fresh agar work going
thank you Caps for confirmation, the tube is tossed away. and yeah, everything that happens is an opportunity for learning - time to learn agar!
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