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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] 1
#26865239 - 08/05/20 06:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Whether he was behind the wheel is neither controversial nor an issue. It's a distraction from the real issue that a man was killed for a misdemeanor in jerkwater, USA
If he was on the right combination of drugs, it is an issue because intoxicated people are a public safety risk.
13 second mark of the video: "Let me see your hands!" You can clearly see the cop hasn't drawn his gun yet in the window reflection. And you can CLEARLY see Floyd in his car. (Enlil...)
Cop says after: "Let me see your other hand!" Floyd doesn't do it. Cops repeats: "Let me see your other hand!" Floyd still isn't complying. Cop NOW draws his gun on the 4th time repeating himself now knowing where Floyd's hands are. (This is basic training for safety.)
"Both hands!" the cop says, now gun drawn.
Cop then asks for compliance a few more times before Floyd complies. Tell him to put both his hands on the wheel. Floyd finally does it only to take them off right after.
He takes his hands off the wheel AGAIN to look at the cop and say, "I got shot the same way before."
At this point the average viewer is thinking, "No fuckin' shit you got shot you can't listen to instructions at ALL."
This lack of compliance goes on for minutes. It all could haven been avoided.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/05/20 06:25 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 9 hours, 29 minutes
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I don't know if he'll do time. He should, though.
I think the fact that he couldn't breathe at that point makes it far worse for the cops. They knew there was an issue far earlier than previously thought. Those cops had no business treating him like that.
Well i think at that point the cops just thought he was a drugged out lunatic. How are they supposed to treat a muscular guy who is 6 foot 3, on drugs and acting erratically?
Treat him like a innocent citizen until they know he committed a crime, which he didn't.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123] 1
#26865254 - 08/05/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: It shouldn't have ever got to that point in the first place.
I agree. Dont mistake me putting some blame on floyd as defending the cops. But you can't watch the video and say floyd didn't escalate the situation by acting erratically and refusing to comply. The cops even offered to roll the window down if he felt uncomfortable in the back of the car...
Police are notorious for putting people in the back of the cars with no AC or windows down in extremely hot conditions for 30-60 minutes just to torture them, why in the world would anyone believe that the cops would roll the window down? Cops lie all the time.
Edited by qman (08/05/20 06:38 PM)
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: qman]
#26865255 - 08/05/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I don't know if he'll do time. He should, though.
I think the fact that he couldn't breathe at that point makes it far worse for the cops. They knew there was an issue far earlier than previously thought. Those cops had no business treating him like that.
Well i think at that point the cops just thought he was a drugged out lunatic. How are they supposed to treat a muscular guy who is 6 foot 3, on drugs and acting erratically?
Treat him like a innocent citizen until they know he committed a crime, which he didn't.
I think it is reasonable to ask someone who has previously been convicted of violent crime who is engaged in suspicious activity to show his hands right away and when he doesn't I think it is doubly reasonable to draw a weapon on him just in case he's about to do the same to you.
I think if it was any of you and you knew the man's history and you had to handle him, your "morality" would become irrelevant in an instant if that's all the information you had. You can pretend otherwise, but nobody in their sane mind would approach a man who had previously held people at gunpoint (pregnant women at their belly, no fucking less), in order to confront them about something they've done wrong, without being super cautious and armed.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/05/20 06:30 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Vahn421]
#26865262 - 08/05/20 06:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're wrong. His record is irrelevant. You're using standard stormfront rhetoric to blame the victim here.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
#26865270 - 08/05/20 06:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I haven't said a thing about race and you're going to bring stormfront into this?
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Vahn421] 2
#26865271 - 08/05/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I don't know if he'll do time. He should, though.
I think the fact that he couldn't breathe at that point makes it far worse for the cops. They knew there was an issue far earlier than previously thought. Those cops had no business treating him like that.
Well i think at that point the cops just thought he was a drugged out lunatic. How are they supposed to treat a muscular guy who is 6 foot 3, on drugs and acting erratically?
Treat him like a innocent citizen until they know he committed a crime, which he didn't.
I think it is reasonable to ask someone who has previously been convicted of violent crime who is engaged in suspicious activity to show his hands right away and when he doesn't I think it is doubly reasonable to draw a weapon on him just in case he's about to do the same to you.
I think if it was any of you and you knew the man's history and you had to handle him, your "morality" would become irrelevant in an instant if that's all the information you had. You can pretend otherwise, but nobody in their sane mind would approach a man who had previously held people at gunpoint (pregnant women at their belly, no fucking less), in order to confront them about something they've done wrong, without being super cautious and armed.
You're still forgetting the most important point, it was an unlawful detention because there was NO criminal act that took place. Someone who once committed a crime does NOT mean the police are now allowed to treat you differently, come on man, this is basic commonsense.
If he committed a crime and a lawful detention and arrest took place, it wouldn't have made any difference in this case.
The bottom line is that the cops fucked up every aspect of this call. From the very beginning to the very end. You see from their perspective, this is just everyday policing. Violating rights is just something they do everyday, they don't think twice about it.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: qman]
#26865277 - 08/05/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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How many times does a cop have to ask someone to show their hands before they are allowed to draw a weapon?
How many times does someone have to show non-compliance before they can be arrested?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Vahn421]
#26865282 - 08/05/20 06:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: I haven't said a thing about race
Today? This week? Ever?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Vahn421]
#26865283 - 08/05/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: How many times does a cop have to ask someone to show their hands before they are allowed to draw a weapon?
How many times does someone have to show non-compliance before they can be arrested?
Why should he have to comply?
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Vahn421]
#26865284 - 08/05/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: How many times does a cop have to ask someone to show their hands before they are allowed to draw a weapon?
How many times does someone have to show non-compliance before they can be arrested?
What law is there that people not under arrest have to show their hands to the police?
Why would someone get arrested for not breaking a law? Unless you think making up a false charge is justifiable, because that's what cops do when people irritate them without committing a crime. 
Cops make tons of unlawful demands and then attempt to call it non-compliance. You do think cops should also follow the law and just not invent things up as the go along, right?
Edited by qman (08/05/20 06:46 PM)
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: qman]
#26865287 - 08/05/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Enlil said: I don't know if he'll do time. He should, though.
I think the fact that he couldn't breathe at that point makes it far worse for the cops. They knew there was an issue far earlier than previously thought. Those cops had no business treating him like that.
Well i think at that point the cops just thought he was a drugged out lunatic. How are they supposed to treat a muscular guy who is 6 foot 3, on drugs and acting erratically?
Treat him like a innocent citizen until they know he committed a crime, which he didn't.
I think it is reasonable to ask someone who has previously been convicted of violent crime who is engaged in suspicious activity to show his hands right away and when he doesn't I think it is doubly reasonable to draw a weapon on him just in case he's about to do the same to you.
I think if it was any of you and you knew the man's history and you had to handle him, your "morality" would become irrelevant in an instant if that's all the information you had. You can pretend otherwise, but nobody in their sane mind would approach a man who had previously held people at gunpoint (pregnant women at their belly, no fucking less), in order to confront them about something they've done wrong, without being super cautious and armed.
You're still forgetting the most important point, it was an unlawful detention because there was NO criminal act that took place. Someone who once committed a crime does NOT mean the police are now allowed to treat you differently, come on man, this is basic commonsense.
If he committed a crime and a lawful detention and arrest took place, it wouldn't have made any difference in this case.
The bottom line is that the cops fucked up every aspect of this call. From the very beginning to the very end. You see from their perspective, this is just everyday policing. Violating rights is just something they do everyday, they don't think twice about it.
I think at that point they were investigating someone suspected to be intoxicated behind the wheel
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] 1
#26865288 - 08/05/20 06:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: I haven't said a thing about race
Today? This week? Ever?
I think we should bring up vahns prior record
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123] 1
#26865290 - 08/05/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bullshit. You don't handcuff someone for the field sobriety exam.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 9 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] 1
#26865302 - 08/05/20 07:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Bullshit. You don't handcuff someone for the field sobriety exam.
Yep, they made no effort to determine if intoxication was an issue.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: qman]
#26865304 - 08/05/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I live in Wisconsin. Everyone I know has had at least one owi/dwi and I don't know a single one who got cuffed for it besides people who are black.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: bodhisatta]
#26865307 - 08/05/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes, I know you're handcuffed. Now touch your nose.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] 6
#26865432 - 08/05/20 08:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I seriously cant believe we have conservative members arguing on the side of the police in a debate about police brutality and federal overreach 
Mind blowing. Truly mind blowing. Where is all the outrage about tyranny?
Qman is the only historically conservative member of this board with any real values/convictions.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow] 1
#26865468 - 08/05/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not a conservative. I'm *completely* unaffiliated. In Dungeons and Dragons terms I'm True Neutral. Law is as important as Chaos. Good as important as Evil. Balance in all things, including self-interest balanced with altruism.
When I feel a cause is just I'll side with the anti-authorities, too. I'm not loyal to parties, only principles... and because NO side is perfect, I'm not blind or naive enough to think allying with anyone is allying with the, "good" side. It just means temporarily, they are more sane and rational. (That also doesn't mean the other "side" doesn't have a point to their gripes. Police brutality is a problem, I've never disagreed.)
I can't debate with the political left or with most anarchists without them derailing off topic or misrepresenting me. Most of you engaging me are guilty of this. When I debate with the current political right, I get a lot more SUBSTANCE and less derailment.
In my assessment of what has happened to George Floyd, I have not condoned all the actions of the officers, I've only sympathized with them. I find the situation to be ambiguous, not "in the cop's favor."
I'm most pissed off we were lied to and the nation has rioted and killed 30 people, including children, over this.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/05/20 08:47 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Vahn421]
#26865474 - 08/05/20 08:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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When and how were we lied to?
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