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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #26744822 - 06/14/20 07:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid:

Bod is an obvious troll at times, and we rarely agree though it happens, but fal has
definitely slipped right passed the trolling for reaction phase straight to actual boot licking


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26744954 - 06/14/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Like the cops know his history. And like it matters.



Exactly.  Is it your opinion that the cops should have assumed he was out of character in defying their orders, and that he would have peacefully gone home if only they had written a citation???

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
If you're comfortable with your authoritarian ideas that's cool but don't pretend you're for liberty



Can you please tell me what authoritarian ideas I have?

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
No one is confused...



I suggest you reread this post to see how confused you are.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26744959 - 06/14/20 09:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
:whathesaid:

Bod is an obvious troll at times, and we rarely agree though it happens, but fal has
definitely slipped right passed the trolling for reaction phase straight to actual boot licking



Boot licking?  Why don't you answer my question of whether the cops should have assumed he was out of character in defying their orders, and that he would have peacefully gone home if only they had written a citation?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26745060 - 06/14/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It's not their place to even have to make that call.  They write the citation and move on.  They aren't custodians.  They aren't there to clean up.  They are there to enforce the law.  That means identifying the lawbreakers and ensuring that the relevant information is relayed to prosecutors.  They have no business arresting people for nonviolent crimes.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26745061 - 06/14/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ya the guy probably wouldn't go home so the most logical thing the cop could do was to push him to the ground and bust his dome.

I think you missed a spot on the heel, bro.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26745070 - 06/14/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Falcon would rather the cops arrest him and make it impossible for him to go home.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26745082 - 06/14/20 10:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Arresting him is better than putting him in the hospital :shrug:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26745088 - 06/14/20 10:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I gotta disagree with you on that one.  He would have almost certainly died from his injuries if he were arrested.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26745095 - 06/14/20 10:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You misunderstand, or I didnt relay correctly, what I meant.

I mean that arresting him instead of busting his dome, thus putting him in the hospital, would have been preferable


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26745100 - 06/14/20 10:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

In the same way that losing all motor skills and laying in a vegetative state is preferable to dying.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26745110 - 06/14/20 10:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Most definitely.

I'm personally of the belief the guy did absolutely nothing wrong.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26745115 - 06/14/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'm sure he did many things wrong.  I'm sure everyone there did many things wrong.  We've all done many things wrong.  The real point here is that he holds no culpability in his own beatdown.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26745119 - 06/14/20 10:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Geesh :rolleyes:

Obviously dude. I mean in approaching the police, his gesticulating, the moments
prior to him cracking his skull, etc.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #26745127 - 06/14/20 10:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The words matter here, dude.  Falcon's entire argument has been something along the lines of:

1. The old man did X
2. X appears to not be legal, therefore
3. The old man did something wrong

That's why the whole "he did nothing wrong" argument is stupid here.  The real point is that it doesn't matter if he did something wrong.  All that matters is if he's culpable for his own beating, and the answer to that is clearly no.

If the old man had just come back from molesting and murdering a little girl, he would still hold no blame in the beating.  That's my point.  It doesn't matter what he did wrong or right.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26745158 - 06/14/20 10:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ok but we're not talking about the old mans actions prior to the protest
or even 20 minutes before the video, as far as doing anything deserving of that specific beatdown,
I maintain he did nothing wrong. I'm not here making assessments of the guys moral
compass in all aspects of his life.

Fal might think x is illegal and deserving, but I don't and I maintain that his actions,
that correlated directly with his beatdown, were not wrong, illegal, immoral, what have you.

If fal comes in here and argues breaking curfew is wrong, it is worth noting
they were clearing the square AHEAD of curfew, thus no breaking of curfew had actually occurred yet.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26745167 - 06/14/20 10:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

But that leaves the argument open.  Why take that route?  If he broke the curfew, that doesn't make pushing him okay.  If he touched the cop, that doesn't make pushing him okay.  If he used some imaginary scanner on the cop, that doesn't make pushing him okay.  Simply put, the man's actions don't figure into the equation at all, so why even get in the mud of details that you and falcon can never possibly know?


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OfflineTNK
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26745176 - 06/14/20 10:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I gotta disagree with you on that one.  He would have almost certainly died from his injuries if he were arrested.




or perhaps arresting him, without ever needing to push him over.

I think arresting him without causing any injury is preferable to getting his head busted up.


--------------------
Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: TNK]
    #26745184 - 06/14/20 10:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe, but only slightly.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
    #26745225 - 06/14/20 11:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Is it your opinion that the cops should have assumed he was out of character in defying their orders, and that he would have peacefully gone home if only they had written a citation???



It's not their place to even have to make that call.  They write the citation and move on.  They aren't custodians.  They aren't there to clean up.  They are there to enforce the law.  That means identifying the lawbreakers and ensuring that the relevant information is relayed to prosecutors.



The police were there to clear the square for curfew.  If you think the police should have played patty cake with the protesters, then I'll agree with you.  But that's not what they were called in to do.

Quote:

Enlil said:
They have no business arresting people for nonviolent crimes.



You previously said the police are allowed to arrest people who don't obey their orders.  I realize your personal preference is they don't, but I'm not sure how your personal preference plays into this.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Falcon would rather the cops arrest him and make it impossible for him to go home.



No, I suggested that since you said curfew is legal, the cops should have done their duty of enforcing curfew in the square.  For the record, I already said I don't like curfew, but you said it's legal, and they were asked to enforce it.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Falcon's entire argument has been something along the lines of:

1. The old man did X
2. X appears to not be legal, therefore
3. The old man did something wrong

That's why the whole "he did nothing wrong" argument is stupid here.  The real point is that it doesn't matter if he did something wrong.  All that matters is if he's culpable for his own beating, and the answer to that is clearly no.

If the old man had just come back from molesting and murdering a little girl, he would still hold no blame in the beating.  That's my point.



"The beating"?  Holy make believe dude!

Once again I'll ask the same question as before.  If the guy disobeys police orders, is that doing "nothing wrong"?  Can he legally be arrested or not?  (please leave your personal preference out of this)

Quote:

Enlil said:
If he broke the curfew, that doesn't make pushing him okay.  If he touched the cop, that doesn't make pushing him okay.  If he used some imaginary scanner on the cop, that doesn't make pushing him okay.



Yes, I agreed a LOOOONG time ago that "they should have arrested him rather than push him away."

I guess I don't understand the game of make believe you guys are now playing.  But if that's what you want to do, I'll continue to call you out on it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26745740 - 06/15/20 06:30 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Can? Yes. Does typically? No.  It's just not a part of our values to have people taken from their families and locked in cages for minor bullshit. 
This is why people get angry about teenagers getting LWOP for drug offenses and shit. 






Not using this specific example but curfews and protests in general: how could you reasonably expect cops to enforce curfew on a mob by writing citations? How effective can citations be at getting a mob to disperse/obey curfew orders?


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