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Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes


Registered: 07/29/10
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow] 2
#26739798 - 06/12/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said:

I literally don't give a shit about semantics. If he had died the cop would be guilty of murder, manslaughter, homicide, whatever.
We fundamentally disagree, dude. You seem to think the cops actions were justified, I dont
You seem to think curfew enforcement is acceptable reasons for cops to use excessive force, I dont.
You think that elderly citizens shouldnt stand up to tyranny, I dont.
If the guy had died, you seem to have thought there would be no issue since the cop didnt intend to hurt him, I disagree.
For the record, my reply about murder and 1 punch homicide was in reply to this statement by you:
Quote:
I don't think the police intended to injure that guy, though that was unfortunately the end result.
Or is intent not relevant?
I was simply trying to state that lack of intent doesnt mean you arent culpable. You took that and ran with the whole murder vs. Homicide debate because i used the terms interchangeably.
Fucking annoying dude for fucks sake 
Falcon literally only argues semantics. He never takes a moral stand on any one side. Just argues who said what, and what means what.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: natedawgnow] 2
#26739814 - 06/12/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said:

I literally don't give a shit about semantics. If he had died the cop would be guilty of murder, manslaughter, homicide, whatever.
We fundamentally disagree, dude. You seem to think the cops actions were justified, I dont
You seem to think curfew enforcement is acceptable reasons for cops to use excessive force, I dont.
You think that elderly citizens shouldnt stand up to tyranny, I dont.
If the guy had died, you seem to have thought there would be no issue since the cop didnt intend to hurt him, I disagree.
For the record, my reply about murder and 1 punch homicide was in reply to this statement by you:
Quote:
I don't think the police intended to injure that guy, though that was unfortunately the end result.
Or is intent not relevant?
I was simply trying to state that lack of intent doesnt mean you arent culpable. You took that and ran with the whole murder vs. Homicide debate because i used the terms interchangeably.
Fucking annoying dude for fucks sake 
Yea this thread put falcon to rest in everyone's mind. At this point I can't fathom what kind of mental protectionism is going on in his head to keep him from feeling utter embarrassment.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Quote:
Sulfurshelfsean said: Falcon literally only argues semantics. He never takes a moral stand on any one side. Just argues who said what, and what means what.
If you tell me the cop would have been charged with murder if the old man died, I'm going to disagree. It doesn't mean I don't think the cop wasn't wrong, it means I don't think he would have been guilty of murder.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26739828 - 06/12/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Yea this thread put falcon to rest in everyone's mind. At this point I can't fathom what kind of mental protectionism is going on in his head to keep him from feeling utter embarrassment.
I was ridiculed when I said there no evidence of the Trump campaign colluding with Russia on election interference, I was ridiculed when I said there was no evidence of a chemical attack in Douma, I was ridiculed when I said there was no evidence against the troll farm (where the case against them was dropped).
Now I'm being ridiculed for saying I don't see evidence of intent to murder if the guy dies. Are you arguing with that? Or what exactly are you upset about? Because I don't even know.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Pro tip: If I argue with you about it not being murder, and you meant to say homicide, tell me you meant to say homicide, and we're done. Don't complain about me calling you out for using the wrong word for countless threads. 
And don't make believe that because I don't think it's murder, that means I don't think it's wrong. That was a ridiculous stretch.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#26739927 - 06/12/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Yea this thread put falcon to rest in everyone's mind. At this point I can't fathom what kind of mental protectionism is going on in his head to keep him from feeling utter embarrassment.
Not everyone's. What's wrong with examining the evidence? I don't think anyone is arguing that the cop won't be found guilty of... something. Looking at the protester's actions as well as the cop's actions is exactly what a judge would do and I think that guy played a small part in the outcome, even though excessive force appeared to be used. That has to be a mitigating factor when he is eventually found guilty and taken into account in sentencing(I would guess)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,470
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Yea this thread put falcon to rest in everyone's mind. At this point I can't fathom what kind of mental protectionism is going on in his head to keep him from feeling utter embarrassment.
Not everyone's. What's wrong with examining the evidence? I don't think anyone is arguing that the cop won't be found guilty of... something. Looking at the protester's actions as well as the cop's actions is exactly what a judge would do and I think that guy played a small part in the outcome, even though excessive force appeared to be used. That has to be a mitigating factor when he is eventually found guilty and taken into account in sentencing(I would guess)
In the same way that the length of a woman's skirt and/or the size of her heels have to be mitigating factors when sentencing someone for her rape.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] 1
#26739944 - 06/12/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Would he have suffered the same fate if he didn't advance towards them? He turned up with a helmet, was he well prepared or looking for some 'fun' with the police? I think they're reasonable questions.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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What a woman wears should not be a factor. What about her actions?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Some people consider the skirt and heels to be slutty actions
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: bodhisatta]
#26739968 - 06/12/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes some people would but wouldn't that mean they'd be making assumptions based on their own bias?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: Would he have suffered the same fate if he didn't advance towards them?
Would he have suffered the same fate if he had lived in another state? Everything the man did throughout his life led to that moment. That doesn't mean that he made it happen, though. The blame goes to the wrongdoer. He did nothing wrong. The cop did.Quote:
He turned up with a helmet, was he well prepared or looking for some 'fun' with the police? I think they're reasonable questions.
Questions that are irrelevant to the analysis, but sure...you can be curious about anything.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
#26740009 - 06/12/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: He did nothing wrong. The cop did.
You never answered the question of what the cops should have done to the guy for breaking their curfew line.
I previously agreed that arresting him would probably have been the best move. But if "he did nothing wrong", I guess that wouldn't have been an option. Are the cops required to let curfew breakers break curfew?
I can be curious about anything, right?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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He should have told him to go home.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] 2
#26740067 - 06/12/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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You don't think the police already told people that before they started their march?
I have a tough time believing that, but I'll see what I can find.
Assuming he was asked to go home, did the cops have any right to arrest him since you claim "he did nothing wrong"?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Why arrest him? Write him a citation and move on.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil]
#26740098 - 06/12/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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And then just leave him alone to hang out in the square?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Yeah, why not? He's not hurting anyone.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] 1
#26740121 - 06/12/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So anyone who's not hurting anyone can break curfew?
I'm not even in favor of curfew, but if a state is allowed to have curfew, it seems odd if they're not allowed to enforce it.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Enlil] 2
#26740127 - 06/12/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Would he have suffered the same fate if he had lived in another state? Everything the man did throughout his life led to that moment. That doesn't mean that he made it happen, though. The blame goes to the wrongdoer. He did nothing wrong. The cop did.
So in weighing up the wrong doing, the judge/jury will be looking only at the cops actions and nothing to do with the protester's actions?
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