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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25863653 - 03/09/19 04:32 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
When my mom was in Russia, she said the police were corrupt as fuck.



I can't speak to police corruption in Russia.  I was citing the differences in attitudes towards people.  When was she in Russia?




Mid to late 90's. I think the last time she went may have been 2000 or 2001... I don't remember very clearly.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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Offlinechibiabos
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25863780 - 03/09/19 05:36 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
This video shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops.

It's a tradition in Russia for cops to honor women on International Women's Day (8 Mar).
















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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: chibiabos]
    #25864199 - 03/09/19 08:38 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

chibiabos said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
This video shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops.

It's a tradition in Russia for cops to honor women on International Women's Day (8 Mar).



















Your first and last videos didn't discuss the police at all.
Your second video showed no police brutality or violence.
Your third and fifth video showed minor police misconduct, but no one was seriously hurt in them.
Your fourth video showed self-appointed vigilante Cossack militiamen (who are not police).

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?  Based on your videos, I'm now thinking you actually agree with me.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/09/19 09:17 PM)

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25864721 - 03/10/19 04:59 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
This video shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops.

It's a tradition in Russia for cops to honor women on International Women's Day (8 Mar).





HOLY FACK! Why are you such an apologist for the Russian state? It's one thing to create your own threads where your defend the occupation of Crimea and other human rights abuses by Russian state forces, but you can't even resist sharing some copaganda in the anti-police circle jerk thread, because it "shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops"...

American cops, like American citizens, may be more trigger happy than your average European cop - but the "stark contrast" mostly ends there. From Calais to Greece - fuck the police!

Oh wait nvm! I found a video that was definitely not selectively produced and released by the police department in an attempt to improve public perception of police. They're giving out ice-cream, not tickets! Clearly, American cops never do anything bad ever either - and this video is proof!




Fact: corruption is endemic to police forces around the world.

Fact: Russian police have been engaging in a campaign of illegal arrest and torture of Russian anarchists and antifascists since 2017.

Fact: All cops are bastards.



Here's a documentary on the kidnappings, torture, and false confessions:



Another Wave of Arrests and Torture against Russian Anarchists

How the FSB is Manufacturing a Terrorism Case Against Antifascists in Russia

First hand report: Ilya Kapustin: “They Said They Could Break My Legs and Dump Me in the Woods"

Another first hand report: Arrested Penza Antifascists Talk about Torture in Remand Prison

And another one: “You should understand: FSB officers always get their way!”: Anti-fascist Viktor Filinkov reveals how he was tortured by Russian security services

FSB admitting to at least one electrocution: FSB Officials Say Electrocuting Detained Activist Was ‘Professional Necessity’

Appendix: The Arrestees (In Chronological Order)

Corroborating evidence: Conclusion Report of the Civilian Monitoring Commission of St Petersburg


Edited by shivas.wisdom (03/10/19 06:17 AM)

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #25864734 - 03/10/19 05:13 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

In other news, March 15th will mark the 22nd International Day Against Police Brutality. What will you be doing?

In my community, March 8th rung in a week of activities with a fundraising folk-punk show at my neighbours; and March 15th will see the 22nd March Against Police Brutality happen in downtown Montréal.

The idea behind this holiday (beyond the obvious) stems from a concept that we need more international holidays based around class solidarity - and less national holidays based around consumerism. A couple other examples off my head: May 1st is International Workers Day /or May Day; April 15th is Steal Something From Work Day.


https://mtlcounterinfo.org/callout-for-the-march-against-police-brutality-2019/



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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25865029 - 03/10/19 09:14 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Copaganda. Cool new word.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Brian Jones]
    #25865190 - 03/10/19 10:36 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Copaganda. Cool new word.




I loved it!

I also like the fancy pants anarchist slogans like "From Calais to Greece - fuck the police!"

Shiva is a gentleman, and a scholar, of course.

That video he posted of the police stopping people to hand out ice cream cones is actually a violation of the law. If they stopped me to give me an ice cream cone, I would actually have a serious problem with it. Someone could lose their job over being late one time too many or w/e.

In America you have the right to travel unmolested. If police stop you for nothing, they are breaking the law.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25865204 - 03/10/19 10:41 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
The idea behind this holiday (beyond the obvious) stems from a concept that we need more international holidays based around class solidarity - and less national holidays based around consumerism. A couple other examples off my head: May 1st is International Workers Day /or May Day; April 15th is Steal Something From Work Day.




I hope someday people will engage in the political process with the same vigor as they do they do consumerist holidays! It would be great to have holidays that encourage workers to think about workers rights, and discourage police brutality, along with all of those holidays celebrating the military, the president, etc.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25866082 - 03/10/19 04:34 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
This video shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops.

It's a tradition in Russia for cops to honor women on International Women's Day (8 Mar).





HOLY FACK! Why are you such an apologist for the Russian state? It's one thing to create your own threads where your defend the occupation of Crimea and other human rights abuses by Russian state forces, but you can't even resist sharing some copaganda in the anti-police circle jerk thread, because it "shows a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops"...



I guess I made the mistake of not posting statistics, since I was simply generalizing that the number of bad US cops is higher than in other countries.

According to The Guardian, 200 people died in Russian police custody in 2015 "Of the 197, just four were reportedly killed by police officers."

Also according to a Guardian study there was "a final tally of 1,134 deaths at the hands of (U.S.) law enforcement officers (in 2015)".

That seems like a significant difference, no?

As others know by now, I don't buy into the establishment's narrative that we're supposed to hate on anything about Russia because we desparately need an enemy to justify our huge military expenditures.  Sure, let's criticize them where appropriate, but let's not make believe things either.


Of course, I'm open to any other evidence you may have from sources other than The Guardian comparing US police killings to Russia police killings.


--------------------
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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (03/10/19 04:43 PM)

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25866570 - 03/10/19 08:48 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

So the sharp contrast between American cops and foreign cops, that you felt was revealed by the video of Russian police giving women flowers, is that  more people die while in police custody in the USA than do in Russia?

To be completely honest, I suspect you just googled for the first comparison you could find in response to my criticism, but let's actually look at your statistics.

First off, I would like to point out that you are comparing the number of people who died while in police custody in Russia, to the number of people who died at the hands of police in the USA. I'm sure you will appreciate that 'deaths in police custody' and 'police killings' are two different statistics; is this an appropriate comparison to make?

I tried to find statistics on Russian police killings, but unfortunately all I find are news reports on a serial killer cop - no statistics. The website that the Guardian got its data from, appears to be poorly maintained and doesn't provide any statistics on police killings either. Perhaps there is more information out there available for those who can read Russian.

Instead, let's see if we can find the numbers on US deaths in custody. According to this Vice article, 4309 people were reported to have died in 2012 (last year data available) . For an extra comparison, I am including data for England and Wales, which is listed as a 10 year high with 23 deaths in 2018, and 14 in 2015.

For Russia I will use the 197 figure - not four - because the website source states it will rely solely on official and publicly available statistics for its reporting, and I don't trust police to investigate and clear themselves; but also because my other two numbers don't differentiate between cause of death. Everything from suicide to murder is included. One would assume that a more inhumane prison system would see more death across the board anyways, so I feel it's a good metric.

What follows is amateur statistic analysis. Feel free to criticize.

  • Russia: population 144.5 mil, incarceration rate 385/100,000, deaths in custody 197

  • USA: 325.7, 655, 4309

  • England and Wales: 57.9, 139, 23/14


The US has 2.2x the population of Russia, with an incarceration rate 1.7x higher. England and Wales has 0.4x the population of Russia, with an incarceration rate 0.4x lower.

So attempting to compare the number of deaths in custody, Russias 197 deaths would equal 737 in the USA ([197*2.2]*1.7) and 32 in England and Wales ([197*0.4]*0.4).

Comparing those numbers to the numbers of the respective countries, we find that deaths in custody happen at nearly 6x the rate in the USA when compared to Russia; but we also see that Russia has 1.4x (2018 numbers) to 2.3x (2015) the rate of custody deaths when compared to England and Wales.

Rather than displaying a "stark contrast" between American and foreign cops, I see a spectrum of police brutality; with Russia still seemingly using more violence than necessary when compared to countries that aren't the USA. Being better than one of the worst offenders isn't exactly an accomplishment.

Even more so when we consider the Russian numbers are self-reported, and list more than half as dieing from a "sudden deterioration in health conditions (104 people), usually described by unknown circumstances or a stopping of the heart." I don't know about you, but that strikes me as suspicious. I don't have enough faith in any law enforcement agency to faithfully report their human rights violations.



Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Of course, I'm open to any other evidence you may have from sources other than The Guardian comparing US police killings to Russia police killings.




Well to be completely fair, you are the one who made the claim of a stark difference; using a video of Russian police giving women flowers and a comparison between deaths in Russian police custody to police killings in the USA as your "evidence".

I'm not sure what "stark difference" you expected anyone to glean from your initial post beyond 'Russia good - USA bad'.

Personally, I don't need to defend one shitty incarceral state to attack a different incarceral state, and your decision to use Russia - a country still in the top 20 for incarceration rate - a country with a police force that, as my initial response to you details, engages in campaigns of kidnapping and torture of political dissidents - and a country you frequently defend on this forum - as your example of a good police force... is why I initially claimed you to be a Russian apologist.

I think my original interpretation behind your decision to post pro-Russian police sentiment here still stands, but I am open to you providing more evidence on the stark difference between Russian and American cops that you perceive.


Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
As others know by now, I don't buy into the establishment's narrative that we're supposed to hate on anything about Russia because we desparately need an enemy to justify our huge military expenditures.  Sure, let's criticize them where appropriate, but let's not make believe things either.



What did I make believe here? I provided a lot of criticism regarding Russian police and their treatment of anarchists and antifascists in response to your attempt to portray Russian police as a benevolent force. You ignored that to continue to defend your establishment, and respective narrative of choice.

Want to not make believe things? Then don't make believe that the Russian police force doesn't partake in it's own violence and human rights abuses.

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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #25866622 - 03/10/19 09:15 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Copaganda. Cool new word.




I loved it!

I also like the fancy pants anarchist slogans like "From Calais to Greece - fuck the police!"



Haha glad you two enjoyed the new terms! I sometimes forget that some of my language is actually subcultural slang.

I saw the slogan spray painted on a wall in Genova - it's truly international.

Here's one I expect to get a lot of use out of next week: tout le monde deteste la police! - everyone hates the police!




Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I hope someday people will engage in the political process with the same vigor as they do they do consumerist holidays! It would be great to have holidays that encourage workers to think about workers rights, and discourage police brutality, along with all of those holidays celebrating the military, the president, etc.



It can seem like an uphill climb some days, but we have dynamism and chaos on our side. We can make our own holidays without waiting for the official nod, and we can make them fun and exciting because they don't depend on jaded materialistic formulas. Even put them on the same day as a stat holiday if we want to get that sweet time off still. Spread the word to your friends since the TV commercials and elementary schools won't be doing it. Maybe watch that sub.Media Trouble episode I linked a few posts up with a few friends on the 15th - they are intended for group viewing and to spawn discussion.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25866890 - 03/11/19 01:11 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
So the sharp contrast between American cops and foreign cops, that you felt was revealed by the video of Russian police giving women flowers, is that  more people die while in police custody in the USA than do in Russia?



I said there is a stark contrast between American cops and foreign cops, and I posted a video to show an example of that, but you're absolutely correct that the video doesn't prove anything.  Hence, my next post was about police statistics, which are far more relevant. 

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I would like to point out that you are comparing the number of people who died while in police custody in Russia, to the number of people who died at the hands of police in the USA. I'm sure you will appreciate that 'deaths in police custody' and 'police killings' are two different statistics; is this an appropriate comparison to make?



Russian police are trained not to kill, and the number of killings by Russian police is extremely low, as it is in other European countries.  I challenge you to find ANY evidence of police shootings in Russia, which is something the Western media would love to print any chance they got.  You probably won't find much outside of the Caucasus region (Chechnya, etc).

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I tried to find statistics on Russian police killings, but unfortunately all I find are news reports on a serial killer cop - no statistics. The website that the Guardian got its data from, appears to be poorly maintained and doesn't provide any statistics on police killings either. Perhaps there is more information out there available for those who can read Russian.



Like I said, there's so few police killings in Russia that you probably won't find much of anything (prove me wrong).

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Instead, let's see if we can find the numbers on US deaths in custody. According to this Vice article, 4309 people were reported to have died in 2012 (last year data available) . For an extra comparison, I am including data for England and Wales, which is listed as a 10 year high with 23 deaths in 2018, and 14 in 2015.

For Russia I will use the 197 figure - not four - because the website source states it will rely solely on official and publicly available statistics for its reporting, and I don't trust police to investigate and clear themselves; but also because my other two numbers don't differentiate between cause of death. Everything from suicide to murder is included. One would assume that a more inhumane prison system would see more death across the board anyways, so I feel it's a good metric.

What follows is amateur statistic analysis. Feel free to criticize.

  • Russia: population 144.5 mil, incarceration rate 385/100,000, deaths in custody 197

  • USA: 325.7, 655, 4309

  • England and Wales: 57.9, 139, 23/14


The US has 2.2x the population of Russia, with an incarceration rate 1.7x higher. England and Wales has 0.4x the population of Russia, with an incarceration rate 0.4x lower.

So attempting to compare the number of deaths in custody, Russias 197 deaths would equal 737 in the USA ([197*2.2]*1.7) and 32 in England and Wales ([197*0.4]*0.4).

Comparing those numbers to the numbers of the respective countries, we find that deaths in custody happen at nearly 6x the rate in the USA when compared to Russia; but we also see that Russia has 1.4x (2018 numbers) to 2.3x (2015) the rate of custody deaths when compared to England and Wales.

Rather than displaying a "stark contrast" between American and foreign cops, I see a spectrum of police brutality; with Russia still seemingly using more violence than necessary when compared to countries that aren't the USA. Being better than one of the worst offenders isn't exactly an accomplishment.

Even more so when we consider the Russian numbers are self-reported, and list more than half as dieing from a "sudden deterioration in health conditions (104 people), usually described by unknown circumstances or a stopping of the heart." I don't know about you, but that strikes me as suspicious. I don't have enough faith in any law enforcement agency to faithfully report their human rights violations.



If you count 197 deaths in Russian police custody as deaths by police, and 4,309 deaths in US police custody as deaths by police for the same reasons, then the United States has not 20% more, not 50% more, but 600% more police related deaths than Russia does.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Personally, I don't need to defend one shitty incarceral state to attack a different incarceral state, and your decision to use Russia - a country still in the top 20 for incarceration rate - a country with a police force that, as my initial response to you details, engages in campaigns of kidnapping and torture of political dissidents - and a country you frequently defend on this forum - as your example of a good police force... is why I initially claimed you to be a Russian apologist.



Russia doesn't kidnap political dissidents unless they are suspected of something worse, like terrorism, in which case they get arrested.  And as we previously discussed we have a higher incarceration rate, we have a death penalty, we have longer sentences for similar crimes, and other things that are worse as I previously listed (Russia, of course, also has it's own negatives).

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I provided a lot of criticism regarding Russian police and their treatment of anarchists and antifascists in response to your attempt to portray Russian police as a benevolent force. You ignored that to continue to defend your establishment, and respective narrative of choice.



Sure, let's talk about that.  I don't have time tonight to watch the 30 minute video, so I'll skip to the first link you provided.  It says 11 people were arrested, 10 of whom were released within a day, except one person charged with attempting to set up an improvised explosive device on a gas pipeline.

I realize western media tends to criticize Russia for arresting criminals as long as they're opposed to Putin, but we wouldn't stand for that here either.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25867081 - 03/11/19 05:59 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If you count 197 deaths in Russian police custody as deaths by police, and 4,309 deaths in US police custody as deaths by police for the same reasons, then the United States has not 20% more, not 50% more, but 600% more police related deaths than Russia does.





Yes, I thought that was clear when I wrote this: "we find that deaths in custody happen at nearly 6x the rate in the USA when compared to Russia; but we also see that Russia has 1.4x (2018 numbers) to 2.3x (2015) the rate of custody deaths when compared to England and Wales.

I'm certainly not here to defend the US carceral state. I'm not trying to hide the fact it is certainly one of the worst police systems in the world. My dispute is with your claim that other police forces, specifically Russian police forces, represent a stark contrast for what good policing is.

In my opinion, I look at the numbers above and yes, I see that the USA has 600% more deaths in custody, when compared to Russia, but I also see that Russia has 230% more deaths in custody when compared to England and Wales in 2015. Sure, it's only 230% - the USA is 600%! - but just because something is better than the worst, doesn't make it necessarily good.

If I wanted to display a "stark difference", I would probably have used one of the Nordic models. Russia, on the other hand, is essentially the same type of retributive justice led policing that we see in the States, albeit with a reduced rate of death.



Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Russia doesn't kidnap political dissidents unless they are suspected of something worse, like terrorism, in which case they get arrested.



Well, all the information regarding the illegal kidnappings and torture of anarchists that I provided suggests differently.

But let me make sure I have this straight: are you claiming that the Russian state, unlike pretty much every other significant global power, has never and will never use false charges of terrorism to harass political dissidents?

For the record, the police force we are talking about, with regards to tortured anarchists, is the FSB - the ideological successor of the KGB. Both organizations are known for their role in suppressing internal dissent.



Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Sure, let's talk about that.  I don't have time tonight to watch the 30 minute video, so I'll skip to the first link you provided.  It says 11 people were arrested, 10 of whom were released within a day, except one person charged with attempting to set up an improvised explosive device on a gas pipeline.



And once again, this is why I consider your posts to be an example of Russian apologism, because I can't see any other reason for why you would omit this part from your summary: "After brutally torturing them over the following 24 hours in order to force them to agree to incriminating statements, they released 11 of them. The twelfth arrestee, Azat Miftakhov, temporarily disappeared within the legal system while the FSB continued torturing him and refusing his lawyer access to him."

Why are you so blatantly uncritical of the Russian state?


--------------------

Edited by shivas.wisdom (03/11/19 08:25 AM)

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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25867768 - 03/11/19 02:54 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
In my opinion, I look at the numbers above and yes, I see that the USA has 600% more deaths in custody, when compared to Russia, but I also see that Russia has 230% more deaths in custody when compared to England and Wales in 2015. Sure, it's only 230% - the USA is 600%! - but just because something is better than the worst, doesn't make it necessarily good.

If I wanted to display a "stark difference", I would probably have used one of the Nordic models.



I agree - no system is perfect, and the Nordic models certainly are one of the better examples.  But six times the death rate is significant, and I think you're ignoring the very important point that the death rate from arrests in Russia is extraordinarily low in comparison to that of the US; you probably can't even find examples of Russian police shootings outside the Caucuses, though the western media would love to print that kind of thing.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Russia doesn't kidnap political dissidents unless they are suspected of something worse, like terrorism, in which case they get arrested.



Well, all the information regarding the illegal kidnappings and torture of anarchists that I provided suggests differently.

But let me make sure I have this straight: are you claiming that the Russian state, unlike pretty much every other significant global power, has never and will never use false charges of terrorism to harass political dissidents?

For the record, the police force we are talking about, with regards to tortured anarchists, is the FSB - the ideological successor of the KGB. Both organizations are known for their role in suppressing internal dissent.



No, I didn't say they "have never and will never" use false charges.  Nor do I disagree Russia wants to suppress internal dissent.  But Russia has a pretty good constitution, and people who dislike the current system have a right to protest, to write negative articles against the system, and to use the voting booth for change; they shouldn't resort to violence.

I've posted many times how Russian dissenters can and do protest to their heart's content in Russia.  What they can't do is disrupt other events to get their message out.  Which they do all the time, because it gets them arrested and makes for good propaganda so foreigners see it and think "see, they're not allowed to protest in Russia" which is easily proven false.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Sure, let's talk about that.  I don't have time tonight to watch the 30 minute video, so I'll skip to the first link you provided.  It says 11 people were arrested, 10 of whom were released within a day, except one person charged with attempting to set up an improvised explosive device on a gas pipeline.



And once again, this is why I consider your posts to be an example of Russian apologism, because I can't see any other reason for why you would omit this part from your summary: "After brutally torturing them over the following 24 hours in order to force them to agree to incriminating statements, they released 11 of them. The twelfth arrestee, Azat Miftakhov, temporarily disappeared within the legal system while the FSB continued torturing him and refusing his lawyer access to him."

Why are you so blatantly uncritical of the Russian state?



I certainly don't support electric shock to get information; and that deserves to be criticized.  But people aren't killed at the same rate as in the US, and my point is that other countries are better than we are.  No, Russia is not perfect by a long shot.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25868120 - 03/11/19 06:04 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Fact: All cops are bastards.




They're bastards in the majority but a small minority of cops are pretty lenient e.g. pushing for an official end to the drug war.

Wake point:

"You name the problem and I can explain the way it's being affected by the drug war," he said.  "Let's talk about the institutionalized racism and brutality in law enforcement. Both of those things are tremendously affected by the war on drugs. What happens when you take police officers who are supposed to protect and serve communities and you train them to go to war?"

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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25868333 - 03/11/19 07:42 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

So if you're intention was to show the differences between American vs foreign cops, American being the worst offenders, why didn't you compare best to worst? Why did you choose to compare the worst vs a slightly better offender? Unless your intention was to really spread Russian propaganda.
You harp about sticking to the facts and not "make believing" and here you are suggesting that Russians are purposely martyring themselves by protesting out of line in the hopes of getting arrested (for they can be tortured?), to aid American anti Russian propaganda? Sure, thats a not a stretch at all  :crazyeyes:  :crazyeyes:

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25868563 - 03/11/19 09:26 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
So if you're intention was to show the differences between American vs foreign cops, American being the worst offenders, why didn't you compare best to worst? Why did you choose to compare the worst vs a slightly better offender?



As shivas.wisdom explained above, US cops commit at least six time as many murders as Russian cops, while Russian cops only commit 1.4x the number of England and Wales, which is practically the same amount (at least compared to the US).  The point (again) being that the US is FAR worse than other countries.

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
You harp about sticking to the facts and not "make believing" and here you are suggesting that Russians are purposely martyring themselves by protesting out of line in the hopes of getting arrested (for they can be tortured?), to aid American anti Russian propaganda? Sure, thats a not a stretch at all  :crazyeyes:  :crazyeyes:



It's not a stretch at all.  If you think people don't want the attention of being arrested and if you think they are truly afraid of being tortured, then why would they protest in unsanctioned locations?  You tell us a better reason than the one I provided.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,263
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25868705 - 03/11/19 10:23 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
So if you're intention was to show the differences between American vs foreign cops, American being the worst offenders, why didn't you compare best to worst? Why did you choose to compare the worst vs a slightly better offender?



As shivas.wisdom explained above, US cops commit at least six time as many murders as Russian cops, while Russian cops only commit 1.4x the number of England and Wales, which is practically the same amount (at least compared to the US).  The point (again) being that the US is FAR worse than other countries.

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
You harp about sticking to the facts and not "make believing" and here you are suggesting that Russians are purposely martyring themselves by protesting out of line in the hopes of getting arrested (for they can be tortured?), to aid American anti Russian propaganda? Sure, thats a not a stretch at all  :crazyeyes:  :crazyeyes:



It's not a stretch at all.  If you think people don't want the attention of being arrested and if you think they are truly afraid of being tortured, then why would they protest in unsanctioned locations?  You tell us a better reason than the one I provided.



So what does this have to do with using the anti police thread as an excuse to post Russian propaganda?

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123]
    #25868740 - 03/11/19 10:48 PM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Forget the video, I should have posted one from another country.  Everything else still stands - that US police kill far more people than other countries.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,263
Loc: Chinada Flag
Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25868864 - 03/12/19 12:45 AM (5 years, 2 months ago)

Okay, well still, there was no one discussing  the merits of foreign police departments. You offered up information (propaganda) to clear the air on a issue that nobody was raising. .. so you could probably see why you were accused of trying to spread Russian propaganda. But, i just wanted to clear the air that and probably wont talk about it anymore

Edited by MagicMush123 (03/12/19 01:21 AM)

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